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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 23, 2005, at 10:30:34
The correlation coefficient (r = 0.94) and significance (P< 0.00001) are astonishing. In the United States, linoleic acid intake is now about 10,000 times what it was just 100 years ago.
Lar
Lipids. 2004 Dec;39(12):1207-13.Increasing homicide rates and linoleic acid consumption among five Western countries, 1961-2000.
Hibbeln JR, Nieminen LR, Lands WE.
Laboratory of Membrane Biochemistry and Biophysics, National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, Maryland 20892, USA. jhibbeln@mail.nih.gov
Clinical intervention trials and animal studies indicate that increasing dietary intakes of long chain n-3 FA or reducing linoleic acid intake may reduce aggressive and violent behaviors. Here we examine if economic measures of greater n-6 consumption across time and countries correlate with greater risk of homicide. Linoleic acid available for human consumption was calculated from World Health Organization disappearance data for 12 major seed oils in the food supply for the years 1961 to 2000 in Argentina, Australia, Canada, the United Kingdom, and the United States (US). Homicide mortality rates, adjusted for age, were obtained from the central judicial authority of each country. Apparent linoleic acid intake from seed oil sources ranged from 0.29 en% (percentage of daily food energy) (Australia 1962) to 8.3 en% (US 1990s). Greater apparent consumption of linoleic acid correlated with higher rates of homicide mortality over a 20-fold range (0.51-10.2/100,000) across countries and time in an exponential growth regression model (r = 0.94, F = 567, P < 0.00001). Within each country, correlations between greater linoleic acid disappearance and homicide mortality over time were significant in linear regression models. Randomized controlled trials are needed to determine if reducing high intakes of linoleic acid by seed oils with alternative compositions can reduce the risk of violent behaviors. These dietary interventions merit exploration as relatively cost-effective measures for reducing the pandemic of violence in Western societies, just as dietary interventions are reducing cardiovascular mortality. Low linoleate diets may prevent behavioral maladies that correctional institutions, social service programs, and mental health providers intend to treat.
Posted by tealady on March 23, 2005, at 13:42:27
In reply to omega-6 fat intake massively correlated to violenc, posted by Larry Hoover on March 23, 2005, at 10:30:34
hmm.. a comparison of Australia in 1962 with the US in 1990's regarding suicide..and then compare with linoleic intake in perhaps typical diets?
Guess ya don't want my opinion on that one :-))Also "correlations between greater linoleic acid disappearance and homicide mortality over time were significant in linear regression models" does not make that much sense to me...mayvbe its too early in the day and I need some caffeine though
Are they trying to do a grain percentage of diet comparison or just stating more fats in diet ..or maybe just more grains?? (there are, I think, linoleic acids in omega 3's and omega 9's too , and ALA's and CLA's as well.. so for me that is pretty confusing http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_g2603/is_0004/ai_2603000490 scroll down page)anyway..assuming they are trying to say more omega6 grain based diet and violence..what about tradtional societies..IMO fairly violent, or the middle ages or even a couple of centuries ago? My understanding is they were more violent than now..but perhaps I don't have an accurate picture ..I wasn't there after all.
Australia in early 60's was probably one of the least "violent" societies they could pick for a comparison (anything wpuld be les violent.... Why not pick some other year or country:-)
Do you like Gilbert and Sullivan..Pirates of Penzance..modern major general? http://www.privatehand.com/flash/elements.html
Posted by Mistermindmasta on March 23, 2005, at 23:18:42
In reply to omega-6 fat intake massively correlated to violenc, posted by Larry Hoover on March 23, 2005, at 10:30:34
> The correlation coefficient (r = 0.94) and significance (P< 0.00001) are astonishing. In the United States, linoleic acid intake is now about 10,000 times what it was just 100 years ago.
>
> Lar
>
>
> Lipids. 2004 Dec;39(12):1207-13.
>
> Increasing homicide rates and linoleic acid consumption among five Western countries, 1961-2000.
>
> Hibbeln JR, Nieminen LR, Lands WE.
>
> Laboratory of Membrane Biochemistry and Biophysics, National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, Maryland 20892, USA. jhibbeln@mail.nih.gov
>
> Clinical intervention trials and animal studies indicate that increasing dietary intakes of long chain n-3 FA or reducing linoleic acid intake may reduce aggressive and violent behaviors. Here we examine if economic measures of greater n-6 consumption across time and countries correlate with greater risk of homicide. Linoleic acid available for human consumption was calculated from World Health Organization disappearance data for 12 major seed oils in the food supply for the years 1961 to 2000 in Argentina, Australia, Canada, the United Kingdom, and the United States (US). Homicide mortality rates, adjusted for age, were obtained from the central judicial authority of each country. Apparent linoleic acid intake from seed oil sources ranged from 0.29 en% (percentage of daily food energy) (Australia 1962) to 8.3 en% (US 1990s). Greater apparent consumption of linoleic acid correlated with higher rates of homicide mortality over a 20-fold range (0.51-10.2/100,000) across countries and time in an exponential growth regression model (r = 0.94, F = 567, P < 0.00001). Within each country, correlations between greater linoleic acid disappearance and homicide mortality over time were significant in linear regression models. Randomized controlled trials are needed to determine if reducing high intakes of linoleic acid by seed oils with alternative compositions can reduce the risk of violent behaviors. These dietary interventions merit exploration as relatively cost-effective measures for reducing the pandemic of violence in Western societies, just as dietary interventions are reducing cardiovascular mortality. Low linoleate diets may prevent behavioral maladies that correctional institutions, social service programs, and mental health providers intend to treat.
>This is impressive. I believe humans are not metabolically able to process such large amounts of n-6 fats... so these types of ideas have always gone over easily with me.
Posted by tealady on March 24, 2005, at 16:17:55
In reply to Re: omega-6 fat intake massively correlated to violenc, posted by Mistermindmasta on March 23, 2005, at 23:18:42
Personally, I think different diets affecting us depression/anxiety-wise is probably correct.
I also agree that "Randomized controlled trials are needed to determine if reducing high intakes of seed oils with alternative compositions can reduce the risk of violent behaviors."..it's just that what is written in the abstract doesn't seem to make much sense to me and doesn't really hold as far as proving anything.
You could take a comparison between "(Australia 1962) and (US 1990s)" as far as "higher rates of homicide mortality over a 20-fold range" and perhaps
cost of petrol (gasoline) ..
or price of land with ocean frontage..
or even security checks at airports.. (anything that has risen astronomically)> BTW guys it's best to arrive at an airpoirt like Heathrow calm and not shaking :-)
and probably come up with similar correlations.
You can't then imply that the increase in say security checks at airports cause a higher homicide mortality (I typed morality first :-)anyway that's the point I was trying to make . To be fair , the actual article might be clearer.
Jan
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 25, 2005, at 16:30:11
In reply to Re: omega-6 fat intake massively correlated to violenc » Larry Hoover, posted by tealady on March 23, 2005, at 13:42:27
> hmm.. a comparison of Australia in 1962 with the US in 1990's regarding suicide..and then compare with linoleic intake in perhaps typical diets?
> Guess ya don't want my opinion on that one :-))I doubt the only data point for Australia was one for 1962....it just happened to be the lowest in the entire dataset.
> Also "correlations between greater linoleic acid disappearance and homicide mortality over time were significant in linear regression models" does not make that much sense to me...mayvbe its too early in the day and I need some caffeine though
Linear regression is the development of a straight line plot of the data, with the line defined in the form y = ax + b. Usually, this is done by the least squares method. Then, an estimate of how well the straight line predicts the actual data, called the correlation coefficient, is calculated. In this case r is very nearly unity. If you square the correlation coefficient, you get the percentage by which the independent variable is thought to directly contribute to the measured variable. In this case, we are considering linoleic acid as a predictor of homicide mortality. R was found to be 0.94, and r² is then 0.88, i.e. 88% of the homicide rate is attributable to linoleic acid intake, and with a very low likelihood (the P value is tiny) that this is a chance finding. That is astonishing, IMHO. It could be a statistical fluke, but it probably is not one. It certainly deserves further study.
> Are they trying to do a grain percentage of diet comparison or just stating more fats in diet ..or maybe just more grains?? (there are, I think, linoleic acids in omega 3's and omega 9's too , and ALA's and CLA's as well.. so for me that is pretty confusing http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_g2603/is_0004/ai_2603000490 scroll down page)
I'm sorry you're confused by all this.
Linoleic acid is an omega-6 fatty acid, with two desaturation points. It is represented as 18:2, as it is eighteen carbons long.
I don't know what you're trying to say about the omega-3's and omega-9's.
Other eighteen carbon fatty acids are oleic acid (18:1 omega-9), alpha-linolenic acid (18:3, omega-3), and gamma-linolenic acid (18:3, omega-6). There are also a number of conjugated linoleic acids (CLA), which are actually fermentation products from the rumen-based digestion of foods containing linoleic acid. They are all 18:2, but they can be cis and trans. And other rare fatty acids are also eighteen carbons long.
Meat actually contains very little linoleic acid. The dominant fatty acid in all meats is oleic acid, the same healthy omega-9 that is found in olive oil. The problem is grain oils, the vegetable oils that are produced in todays industrial food systems. They contain massive amounts of linoleic acid. They range from 26% in canola oil, to 51% in soya, 52% in corn, up to 75% in safflower oil. These are sources for this unprecendented increase in linoleic acid content. (Unprecedented from an historical/evolutionary perspective.)
> anyway..assuming they are trying to say more omega6 grain based diet and violence..what about tradtional societies..IMO fairly violent, or the middle ages or even a couple of centuries ago? My understanding is they were more violent than now..but perhaps I don't have an accurate picture ..I wasn't there after all.
The intake of linoleic acid is today 10,000 times what it was 100 years ago. That is not to say that violence cannot exist absent linoleic acid. But, in recent times, this seems to be the pattern.
> Australia in early 60's was probably one of the least "violent" societies they could pick for a comparison (anything wpuld be les violent.... Why not pick some other year or country:-)They looked at other years and other countries. Perhaps you missed that, when reading the abstract?
> Do you like Gilbert and Sullivan..Pirates of Penzance..modern major general? http://www.privatehand.com/flash/elements.htmlEh?
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 25, 2005, at 16:31:59
In reply to Re: omega-6 fat intake massively correlated to violenc, posted by Mistermindmasta on March 23, 2005, at 23:18:42
> This is impressive. I believe humans are not metabolically able to process such large amounts of n-6 fats... so these types of ideas have always gone over easily with me.
Combine this excess in omega-6 with the decrease in omega-3 intake, and frankly, I am not the least surprised at the epidemic of mood disorders, and inflammatory disease.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 25, 2005, at 16:34:09
In reply to omega-6 fat intake correlated to violence ¿ »Lar, posted by tealady on March 24, 2005, at 16:17:55
> Personally, I think different diets affecting us depression/anxiety-wise is probably correct.
> I also agree that "Randomized controlled trials are needed to determine if reducing high intakes of seed oils with alternative compositions can reduce the risk of violent behaviors."
>
> ..it's just that what is written in the abstract doesn't seem to make much sense to me and doesn't really hold as far as proving anything.
>
> You could take a comparison between "(Australia 1962) and (US 1990s)" as far as "higher rates of homicide mortality over a 20-fold range" and perhaps
> cost of petrol (gasoline) ..Here is the critical piece of the puzzle:
"Linoleic acid available for human consumption was calculated from World Health Organization disappearance data for 12 major seed oils in the food supply for the years 1961 to 2000 in Argentina, Australia, Canada, the United Kingdom, and the United States (US). Homicide mortality rates, adjusted for age, were obtained from the central judicial authority of each country."Five countries were being assessed, and over a forty year period.
Lar
Posted by Iansf on March 27, 2005, at 14:53:53
In reply to Re: omega-6 fat intake correlated to violence ¿ » tealady, posted by Larry Hoover on March 25, 2005, at 16:34:09
Linoleic acid has been associated with numerous ailments, including cancer. When I was being treated for prostate cancer, I read numerous sources - including fairly mainstream, not just alternative, ones - saying linoleic acid appeared to quicken cancer growth. On the other hand, a variety of studies indicated conjugated linoleic slowed and even reversed cancer. So there are many reasons for limiting linoleic acid intake. The rather sad irony is that many food makers are replacing hydrogenated oils with standard oils, eliminating one serious problem but doing nothing about the other.
This is the end of the thread.
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