![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Emme on August 24, 2004, at 17:38:57
Hi Larry and all others who may have experience with Gingko biloba,
How many weeks or months did it take to notice effects? I haven't started yet, but I'd like some general idea of how patient I'm going to have to be.
cheers,
Emme
Posted by LOOPS on August 25, 2004, at 15:51:19
In reply to Gingko - how long till effects?, posted by Emme on August 24, 2004, at 17:38:57
Depends what you want to use it for.
i get immediate results for concentration and mental alertness on 60mg extract + raw herb (Solgar), which become more pronounced after a second tablet of the same later in the day.
However the memory effects seem to take a bit longer. Also the libido effects take a bit longer, but I guess that depends on what sort of person you are. Couple of weeks??
Loops
Posted by Questionmark on August 25, 2004, at 20:03:33
In reply to ginkgo, posted by LOOPS on August 25, 2004, at 15:51:19
You get immediate results from gingko? No offense, and i'm terribly sorry if the following is not true (cuz it would anger me alot if someone said this about something i was certain of), but are you sure you're not just getting a placebo effect/ it's "in your head"? i've tried gingko several times, usually for over 6 weeks at least, and i've NEVer felt ANY noticeable effects whatsoever.
Stupid gingko!
> Depends what you want to use it for.
>
> i get immediate results for concentration and mental alertness on 60mg extract + raw herb (Solgar), which become more pronounced after a second tablet of the same later in the day.
>
> However the memory effects seem to take a bit longer. Also the libido effects take a bit longer, but I guess that depends on what sort of person you are. Couple of weeks??
>
> Loops
Posted by LOOPS on August 25, 2004, at 20:35:31
In reply to Re: ginkgo, posted by Questionmark on August 25, 2004, at 20:03:33
Yep - no kidding, and it can't of been in my head coz the first time I tried it I thought it would just improve memory after a couple of weeks- I didn't expect it to have any effect on concentration.
Also, I am a pianist and have difficulty remembering some parts of recitals. After about 3 weeks on 120mg extract a day I could suddenly recite whole pieces from memory that I hadn't played in about a year. If that was placebo effect, it was impressive and I'll take it!
It could be just me, but if you do a search on ginko at google groups you'll find I'm probably not the only one who notices an effect (and no, no offence taken - placebo effect can be very real).
Brands seem to vary quite a lot. I noticed one brand gave me a headache and made me tired - so I don't know what's going on there. Mind you the same goes regarding st johns wort - brands seem to vary in quality. Get a good brand and it seems to work a lot better.
The other thing is, if you're very tired and run down, it might have less of an effect. I always find with vitamins / supplements that they seem to have more of an effect when I'm not quite so knackered (apart from those which are supposed to help you relax).
How much are you taking? Some brands seem to be worthless, so maybe change the brand. I don't think you have to spend out to get a good one either. I ran out of the Solgar so am going for the Now brand next as it seems to be cheap and hopefully reliable. We shall see though....
Maybe you need to take more until you begin to see some results.
I've also had results combining ginkgo with gotu kola - maybe that would be more powerful - but I would just first take more (depending on how much you're taking right now) and see if you begin to see an effect.
Loops
Posted by Emme on August 26, 2004, at 6:31:51
In reply to ginkgo, posted by LOOPS on August 25, 2004, at 15:51:19
> Depends what you want to use it for.
Both memory and concentration. I'd like to locate those missing IQ points.
> i get immediate results for concentration and mental alertness on 60mg extract + raw herb (Solgar), which become more pronounced after a second tablet of the same later in the day.That's encouraging. Nice to know it's at least possible to get a quick response for focus.
> However the memory effects seem to take a bit longer. Couple of weeks??Okay. If I try it, I'll be patient for a couple of weeks. I'm scheduled to go for psychoeducational testing and I probably shouldn't start it before that.
thanks
Emme
Posted by Emme on August 26, 2004, at 6:35:13
In reply to ginkgo, posted by LOOPS on August 25, 2004, at 20:35:31
> It could be just me, but if you do a search on ginko at google groups you'll find I'm probably not the only one who notices an effect (and no, no offence taken - placebo effect can be very real).
>
> Brands seem to vary quite a lot. Get a good brand and it seems to work a lot better....I ran out of the Solgar so am going for the Now brand next as it seems to be cheap and hopefully reliable. We shall see though...Thanks for the brand recommendation. Let us know how the Now works out.
> The other thing is, if you're very tired and run down, it might have less of an effect. I always find with vitamins / supplements that they seem to have more of an effect when I'm not quite so knackered (apart from those which are supposed to help you relax).
I think I'm chronically sleep deprived right now. I'm hoping my cognnitive function will improve if I can sleep a little more.
Posted by linkadge on August 26, 2004, at 14:48:51
In reply to Re: ginkgo » LOOPS, posted by Emme on August 26, 2004, at 6:35:13
Thats really cool. I too am a pianist, and used ginkgo in prep for grd 9 and 10 examinations.
I noticed an immediate effect too. This is not all in your head. It has an immediate effect on gaba levels which can improve your concentration, and it also has immediate effects on dopamine which can help concentration. I would immagine that the improved memory comes from its neurotrophic effects over time
Linkadge
Posted by LOOPS on August 26, 2004, at 16:03:23
In reply to HEY LOOPS !!, posted by linkadge on August 26, 2004, at 14:48:51
because I find l-glutamine has good effects on my concentration as well, and I think that produces more gaba (after awhile anyway).
What I like about the ginkgo is it enhances creativity, unlike DMAE which I tried before which enhances concentration, but in an analytical way, which seems to decrease creativity. I do a lot of composition at the piano and found on the DMAE I was more interested in playing than composing. Ginkgo seems to just make me more aware of new ideas.
Love playing the piano though - has got me through some very tough times with depression. That good ol' Chopin always hits the mark with me!
Loops
Posted by KaraS on August 26, 2004, at 17:27:32
In reply to Odd that you should say that..., posted by LOOPS on August 26, 2004, at 16:03:23
> because I find l-glutamine has good effects on my concentration as well, and I think that produces more gaba (after awhile anyway).
>
> What I like about the ginkgo is it enhances creativity, unlike DMAE which I tried before which enhances concentration, but in an analytical way, which seems to decrease creativity. I do a lot of composition at the piano and found on the DMAE I was more interested in playing than composing. Ginkgo seems to just make me more aware of new ideas.
>
> Love playing the piano though - has got me through some very tough times with depression. That good ol' Chopin always hits the mark with me!
>
> Loops
>
>
Hi LOOPS,Hope you don't mind me cutting in here. Are you the same LOOOPS that posts on the SJW board? If so, I owe you a response there.
Back to the topic at hand here: I'm going to try Gingko soon but also Picamilon and l-glutamine. I think you've spoken about Picamilon before. How would you compare it's effects to Ginkgo's before it pooped-out on you? I desperately need to find something that will help me concentrate. Also, I took 100 mg. of DMAE but it didn't do anything for me. Did you take more than that? What about l-glutamine - how much do you take of that? Do you take any of these together or just separately?
Linkadge, please feel free to answer any of this as well.
Wish I could hear you both play the piano...
Kara
Posted by LOOPS on August 26, 2004, at 19:19:48
In reply to Re: Ginkgo, L-Glutamine, DMAE and Picamilon » LOOPS, posted by KaraS on August 26, 2004, at 17:27:32
Well, ginkgo generally feels more 'natural' to me - I know lots of people have been taking it for a long time, and also, it has the added bonus of stimulating libido (happy husband).
Also, it has some mood elevating effects and oxygenates the brain and body, which picamilon does not. Picamilon will do exactly what it claims - it will get GABA right into your brain to quell anxiety, and it will enhance circulation in your brain - so it SHOULD really help you concentrate, if you usually just get up all the time instead of concentrating on what you want to really do. Picamilon does seem to treat depression, in a kind of 'oh, I feel ok' - I don't think it's a very powerful antidepressant though, and you have to be careful with dosage, or you could end up with insomnia.
Picamilon is basically a nootropic drug (which you probably already know). I was a bit concerned though with the way it started to have the opposite effects to at first after awhile, so just be careful with it. Picamilon had no libido-enhancing effect.
If you suffer from bad anxiety and can't get it under control with anything reasonable, I reckon picamilon is worth a shot - just don't take too much and take a break every now and then as I think it builds up slowly, or something to that effect.
If you take it, like it, and want to take a break, I found high dosages of niacinamide with GABA and inositol got me through the 'after' anxiety.
Interesting that you didn't feel anything with DMAE. I seemed to react quite well in a way to it - but then give me some choline and I start bouncing off the walls (and DMAE is supposed to act like a form of choline I think, so who knows what is going on there).
Ginkgo has the advantage of being cheaper than picamilon (depending on supplier) and has a greater effect on memory in my opinion. If you want to stay up all night studying etc. 100mg picamilon would be better.
Loops
Posted by LOOPS on August 26, 2004, at 19:22:19
In reply to Ginkgo, picamilon etc, posted by LOOPS on August 26, 2004, at 19:19:48
yes, I am the same Loops. I'm supposed to be busy writing my next masterpiece of composition right now, but instead I'm busy surfing the web. Oh well...
Loops
Posted by KaraS on August 26, 2004, at 19:44:37
In reply to Ginkgo, picamilon etc, posted by LOOPS on August 26, 2004, at 19:19:48
> Well, ginkgo generally feels more 'natural' to me - I know lots of people have been taking it for a long time, and also, it has the added bonus of stimulating libido (happy husband).
>
> Also, it has some mood elevating effects and oxygenates the brain and body, which picamilon does not. Picamilon will do exactly what it claims - it will get GABA right into your brain to quell anxiety, and it will enhance circulation in your brain - so it SHOULD really help you concentrate, if you usually just get up all the time instead of concentrating on what you want to really do. Picamilon does seem to treat depression, in a kind of 'oh, I feel ok' - I don't think it's a very powerful antidepressant though, and you have to be careful with dosage, or you could end up with insomnia.
>I've tried Picamilon a couple of times. Once in 50 mg. strength and again at 100 mg. strength. I didn't notice that much but I've read that the effects are cumulative. I've also read that at 50 mg. (3x a day) that it is supposed to be relaxing but that at 100 mg. (3x a day) it's supposed to be stimulating. I need the stimulation. I don't have a problem right now with anxiety.
> Picamilon is basically a nootropic drug (which you probably already know). I was a bit concerned though with the way it started to have the opposite effects to at first after awhile, so just be careful with it. Picamilon had no libido-enhancing effect.
That makes sense, I guess, if it's effects are cumulative and you want the lower dose kind of calming effect.
> If you suffer from bad anxiety and can't get it under control with anything reasonable, I reckon picamilon is worth a shot - just don't take too much and take a break every now and then as I think it builds up slowly, or something to that effect.
>
> If you take it, like it, and want to take a break, I found high dosages of niacinamide with GABA and inositol got me through the 'after' anxiety.
By 'after' anxiety, do you mean rebound anxiety or just your normal anxiety that the picamilon covered up?
> Interesting that you didn't feel anything with DMAE. I seemed to react quite well in a way to it - but then give me some choline and I start bouncing off the walls (and DMAE is supposed to act like a form of choline I think, so who knows what is going on there).How much DMAE did you take? Was it more than 100 mg? I'll probably try taking more but I hear that it can start to give you muscle tension usually in the 150 or 200 mg. and up range.
> Ginkgo has the advantage of being cheaper than picamilon (depending on supplier) and has a greater effect on memory in my opinion. If you want to stay up all night studying etc. 100mg picamilon would be better.
>
> LoopsI seem to react paradoxically to a lot of things that are stimulating to others so it will be interesting to see how I react to taking it continually. Also, I probably have adrenal fatigue so I shouldn't try to stimulate too much or stay up all night (although a part of me would sure like to in order to get caught up on all of my chores and things).
Thanks for you help on this.
Kara
Posted by KaraS on August 26, 2004, at 19:46:07
In reply to Oh, and..., posted by LOOPS on August 26, 2004, at 19:22:19
> yes, I am the same Loops. I'm supposed to be busy writing my next masterpiece of composition right now, but instead I'm busy surfing the web. Oh well...
>
> LoopsIt's so much fun, isn't it? I'm addicted to Psycho-Babble as well.
Kara
Posted by LOOPS on August 27, 2004, at 10:02:37
In reply to Re: Ginkgo, picamilon etc » LOOPS, posted by KaraS on August 26, 2004, at 19:44:37
If you don't have anxiety, you can probably cope with a lot of things I just can't (i.e things that raise norepinephrine/dopamine). If you suffer from adrenal fatigue, have you tried tyrosine or N-acetyl-tyrosine with extra B vitamins??
The 'after' anxiety was that when picamilon stopped working, I felt very anxious - more so that before the picamilon, but only for a few days.
Try DMAE with a good dose of B5 might make a difference (so I've heard). 100mg pure DMAE isn't really that much, especially if you haven't had any results. If you've got the drops you can up the dose carefully bit at a time and then will be obvious when the muscle tension comes.
ALC + ALA + COQ10 is a very good combination for both physical and mental energy, but you (have) to take extra biotin if you use it all the time.
Loops
Posted by LOOPS on August 27, 2004, at 10:04:41
In reply to Re: Oh, and... » LOOPS, posted by KaraS on August 26, 2004, at 19:46:07
trying to find the city of gold -
I am convinced there is an answer out there somewhere!
Still, my cupboard is getting rather full.....
Pity there isn't a 'swap club' going for supplements.Loops
Posted by KaraS on August 29, 2004, at 4:33:35
In reply to It's like..., posted by LOOPS on August 27, 2004, at 10:04:41
> trying to find the city of gold -
>
> I am convinced there is an answer out there somewhere!
>
> Still, my cupboard is getting rather full.....
> Pity there isn't a 'swap club' going for supplements.
>
> LoopsI hear you about the search for the right supplements!
I also have a ton of supplements at home. Maybe we can sell them on e-Bay.
(just kidding)
Take care,Kara
Posted by KaraS on August 29, 2004, at 4:37:08
In reply to Oh, and..., posted by LOOPS on August 27, 2004, at 10:02:37
> If you don't have anxiety, you can probably cope with a lot of things I just can't (i.e things that raise norepinephrine/dopamine). If you suffer from adrenal fatigue, have you tried tyrosine or N-acetyl-tyrosine with extra B vitamins??
Unfortunately things that rainse NE/DA are not good for adrenal fatigue. I have tried tyrosine before with no results but I'm going to try it again in small dosage along with digestive enzymes. I have taken the acetylated form but I may try it if I don't think the regular version is working at all. Also, I do take extra B vitamins.
> The 'after' anxiety was that when picamilon stopped working, I felt very anxious - more so that before the picamilon, but only for a few days.
Makes sense I guess.
> Try DMAE with a good dose of B5 might make a difference (so I've heard). 100mg pure DMAE isn't really that much, especially if you haven't had any results. If you've got the drops you can up the dose carefully bit at a time and then will be obvious when the muscle tension comes.
I hadn't tried the DMAE with a dose of B5 when I tried it earlier. B5 is one of the things I'll be taking a lot of soon since it's recommended for adrenal fatigue. I'll have to try the DMAE with it. I shouldn't take anything that's supposed to be very stimulating right now though so I have to be careful.
> ALC + ALA + COQ10 is a very good combination for both physical and mental energy, but you (have) to take extra biotin if you use it all the time.> Loops
I've never heard that. Is the biotin in a good multi plus the biotin in a B-complex capsule enough or do you need really big amounts?Kara
Posted by LOOPS on August 29, 2004, at 13:07:05
In reply to Re: Oh, and... » LOOPS, posted by KaraS on August 29, 2004, at 4:37:08
I was on a forum regarding use of this combo of ALC, ALA, & COQ 10. The consensus was you probably need a gram or two of biotin if you're taking in A LOT of ALA. However these people were taking doses far higher than what I used to.
I used to take around 250mg ALC, 100mg ALA and 10mg COQ10 in an all-in-one formula - I split the cap open to get this dose. I used to find 500mg alc too much and I would feel a bit restless and irritable, but lower doses seem to be very good for quelling hyperactivity and fuelling the brain so you can concentrate.
Don't know if the extra biotin made any difference.
I don't do well with tyrosine either - probably the worst thing I've ever taken for me.
Loops
Posted by KaraS on August 29, 2004, at 14:20:43
In reply to biotin, posted by LOOPS on August 29, 2004, at 13:07:05
> I was on a forum regarding use of this combo of ALC, ALA, & COQ 10. The consensus was you probably need a gram or two of biotin if you're taking in A LOT of ALA. However these people were taking doses far higher than what I used to.
>
> I used to take around 250mg ALC, 100mg ALA and 10mg COQ10 in an all-in-one formula - I split the cap open to get this dose. I used to find 500mg alc too much and I would feel a bit restless and irritable, but lower doses seem to be very good for quelling hyperactivity and fuelling the brain so you can concentrate.
>
> Don't know if the extra biotin made any difference.
>
> I don't do well with tyrosine either - probably the worst thing I've ever taken for me.
>
> Loops
I've only taken fairly small amounts of ALC, ALA and coQ10 (100, 100 and 30 per day respectively). I took them for about 3-4 months but couldn't notice any difference on them. I'm sure they were doing some good antioxidant work though.Tyrosine wasn't bad for me. It just didn't do anything at all. I'm curious to see if the enzymes change that.
-K
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Alternative | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.