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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 48 to 72 of 142. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on December 6, 2013, at 11:58:10
In reply to Why should *some* need to live with it » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on December 6, 2013, at 11:41:05
Apologies. I was using Dr. Bob's terminology. But of course I should have used a quotation mark in this sentence.
I would like some clarifications on the "sh*t" policies of this website.
Posted by Dinah on December 6, 2013, at 12:05:16
In reply to Why should *some* need to live with it » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on December 6, 2013, at 11:41:05
> Is there a limit placed on that person's sh*t?
Posted by Twinleaf on December 6, 2013, at 12:54:41
In reply to Re: why one should have to learn this » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on December 6, 2013, at 9:28:04
Dinah, just a word to say that I support you completely. Dr.Bob's initial decision to exempt Lou from the civility guidelines asked of everyone else has gradually led him into more and more extreme and indefensible positions, such as the idea of a Refuge board, or trying to manipulate Scott into telling you how to express your thoughts. I think the positions about the former deputies are especially painful to read, as it was so clear how hard you all tried to support him, even when it caused you pain and conflict. I wish Dr. Bob would step back from the * therapist to one poster/ superior ethical guide to everyone else* role he has assumed, so that he can see the harm he is causing Babble. In order for this forum to continue and prosper, we need just one thing: a fair, flexible, moderate administrator who treats everyone with equality and respect. It's almost hard to believe how far he has strayed from that.
Posted by larryhoover on December 6, 2013, at 22:14:55
In reply to Re: why one should have to learn this, posted by Dr. Bob on December 5, 2013, at 0:37:28
> > > I really don't understand why one should have to learn this. I manage to find sufficient places where sh*t is not flung at me, to wish to learn how to accept it gracefully.
> >
> > you are lucky that you were able to find a refuge.
>
> Plus sometimes it's not other people, it's life. Has anyone here not had to deal with sh*t?
>
> BobGood god, Bob! All that is necessary for evil to prevail, is for good men to do nothing to prevent it.
The existence of sh*t or evil or whatever you wish to call it is not the problem. The problem is that you have the tools to prevent it, and you do nothing.
Shall we call you Chamberlain?
Lar
Posted by Partlycloudy on December 7, 2013, at 6:50:16
In reply to Re: why one should have to learn this, posted by larryhoover on December 6, 2013, at 22:14:55
> Good god, Bob! All that is necessary for evil to prevail, is for good men to do nothing to prevent it.
>
> The existence of sh*t or evil or whatever you wish to call it is not the problem. The problem is that you have the tools to prevent it, and you do nothing.
>
> Shall we call you Chamberlain?
>
> Lar
>
>
Snort!
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 8, 2013, at 2:09:21
In reply to Re: why one should have to learn this » Dinah, posted by Twinleaf on December 6, 2013, at 12:54:41
> trying to manipulate Scott into telling you how to express your thoughts.
Please don't post anything that could lead others (including me) to feel accused.
More information about posting policies and tips on alternative ways to express yourself, including a link to a nice post by Dinah on I-statements, are in the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 8, 2013, at 2:41:53
In reply to Re: why one should have to learn this, posted by larryhoover on December 6, 2013, at 22:14:55
> I'd like to point out too that learning to tolerate having sh*t slung at you is not necessarily therapeutically indicated for those of us struggling with PTSD. Exposure therapy, in fact, can be fatal in some cases. I refer to the "gun-ho" do it yourself military trauma therapist who brought a returned soldier with PTSD to a gun range. Where he shot himself.
>
> PCThanks, that's a good point.
Dinah, do you have PTSD?
--
> It's not that I can't defend myself. I simply don't want to have to pack a six shooter.
>
> DinahA six-shooter isn't defense. A shield is defense.
--
> All that is necessary for evil to prevail, is for good men to do nothing to prevent it.
>
> The existence of sh*t ... is not the problem. The problem is that you have the tools to prevent it, and you do nothing.
>
> Shall we call you Chamberlain?
>
> LarI'm not blocking Lou, but I'm not doing nothing, either.
Sh*t isn't prevented = it happens.
You may call me Lord Bob should you wish to.
Bob
Posted by Phillipa on December 8, 2013, at 19:43:05
In reply to Re: why one would benefit from learning this, posted by Dr. Bob on December 8, 2013, at 2:41:53
Dr Bob this just doesn't sound like you. Have you appointed another to answer your threads? Phillipa
Posted by 10derheart on December 9, 2013, at 1:18:49
In reply to Re: why one would benefit from learning this, posted by Dr. Bob on December 8, 2013, at 2:41:53
>A six-shooter isn't defense. A shield is defense.
Really? Says who?
Is there is only one sort of defense?
This is not always true, not by a long shot. Not IRL circumstances, and not here. Maybe in an idealistic existence, but not in the world I know. If you honestly think a "six-shooter" never provides excellent defense and is not called for to counter *sh*t,* well, then (I can't speak for Dinah but...) you and I will have a really difficult time understanding one another about this.
Posted by 10derheart on December 9, 2013, at 1:20:10
In reply to Re: why one would benefit from learning this » Dr. Bob, posted by Phillipa on December 8, 2013, at 19:43:05
Sounds precisely like him to me.
:-(
Posted by SLS on December 9, 2013, at 3:38:36
In reply to Re: why one would benefit from learning this » Dr. Bob, posted by Phillipa on December 8, 2013, at 19:43:05
> Dr Bob this just doesn't sound like you.
I have seen differences in the writings of Dr. Hsiung over the years. Some differences I like. Some differences I don't like. However, I am most frustrated and angry by his current posting behaviors and the decisions he makes as moderator.
Learning opportunities need not lead to accordance with, or affirmations of, the teacher.
I can only guess that Dr. Hsiung has plenty of shields at his disposal that he learned how to use as a product of his professional training. I hope that he is less hurt and more intellectually challenged by anything I have to say. However, I am quite fallible and can sometimes use some lessons in civil and effective communication. I try to be receptive to constructive criticisms that would lead me to improve myself. Ironically, Dr. Hsiung has been a good teacher to me. I don't like being angry at him.
- Scott
Posted by Dinah on December 9, 2013, at 12:43:36
In reply to Re: why one would benefit from learning this, posted by Dr. Bob on December 8, 2013, at 2:41:53
> Dinah, do you have PTSD?
Really, Dr. Bob, you couldn't be doing a better job p*ssing me off if you tried.
You'd be way better off saying nothing at all, if retaining my positive feelings about Babble means anything to you.
Posted by Poet on December 9, 2013, at 17:34:14
In reply to Please » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on December 9, 2013, at 12:43:36
Posted by Poet on December 9, 2013, at 17:35:22
In reply to Extra hard cyberslaps coming you way Bob (nm), posted by Poet on December 9, 2013, at 17:34:14
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 10, 2013, at 1:45:56
In reply to Please » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on December 9, 2013, at 12:43:36
> Really, Dr. Bob, you couldn't be doing a better job p*ssing me off if you tried.
>
> You'd be way better off saying nothing at all, if retaining my positive feelings about Babble means anything to you.Retaining you means a lot to me, but you're a civilian now, and so under no obligation to stay positive. You feel pissed off by me. Would you like to cyberslap me, too?
Bob
Posted by Dinah on December 10, 2013, at 4:15:58
In reply to Re: Please, posted by Dr. Bob on December 10, 2013, at 1:45:56
I want you to block me for a lifetime, Dr. Bob.
Posted by Poet on December 10, 2013, at 11:46:11
In reply to Re: Please, posted by Dinah on December 10, 2013, at 4:15:58
Dinah,
Note the I statements. I feel it's not you who should be blocked for life. I feel that all posters regardless of race, creed, sexual orientation or religious persuasion should be afforded the protection that appears to me to be provided to a poster who can accuse and threaten and not even be told to be civil.
Let's make a pact to avoid the admin board.
Poet
Posted by Dinah on December 10, 2013, at 17:42:20
In reply to Re: Please » Dinah, posted by Poet on December 10, 2013, at 11:46:11
I manage it sometimes - for long periods of time. But it's hard to know I'm being talked about, in a public place. I sometimes peek over here, and always regret it.
If Dr. Bob just refrains from saying anything inflammatory (which likely means refraining from saying anything at all in my general direction) it would help.
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 10, 2013, at 18:03:49
In reply to Re: Please » Dinah, posted by Poet on December 10, 2013, at 11:46:11
> I feel that all posters regardless of race, creed, sexual orientation or religious persuasion should be afforded the protection that appears to me to be provided to a poster who can accuse and threaten and not even be told to be civil.
1. Partlycloudy on Psychology got me thinking about the issue of need. Could you think of it as something like: Dinah has you to protect her, but Lou has no one. So I need to protect him.
2. If you see someone accuse or threaten, please use the "notify administrators" button:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#help
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dinah on December 10, 2013, at 18:40:09
In reply to Re: Please, posted by Dr. Bob on December 10, 2013, at 18:03:49
I notified you. You did nothing. I think you were even clear that you weren't going to do anything.
I just as well send messages into space as notify the administrators.
And Lou would still have me, for one, and probably many others, if you didn't allow him to post uncivilly. I blame you as much as Lou for the fact that he has no one.
You know that I used to be one of Lou's biggest supporters. It's you who played the biggest role in changing that.
Posted by Dinah on December 10, 2013, at 19:09:43
In reply to Re: Please, posted by Dr. Bob on December 10, 2013, at 18:03:49
I know I'm trying to speak siliconese. But don't you realize that your behavior is causing people who would formerly have been polite to Lou and encouraged others to be polite to Lou, who struggled to have compassion and understanding, to feel completely differently?
Don't you realize that by saying only Lou can hurt others as much as he wants, but shouldn't be asked to stop, you are creating resentment?
Don't you realize that by incrementally allowing Lou to say more and more what is in his heart, you are encouraging him to say things that are in his own best interests to remain unsaid in public? Things that would make it impossible for people to interpret his behavior in a generous way?
Enforcing the civility rules is not just good for the innocent. It's also in the best interests of the very person you're attempting to support by allowing him free rein.
Posted by SLS on December 10, 2013, at 20:13:58
In reply to Re: Please, posted by Dr. Bob on December 10, 2013, at 18:03:49
> Dinah has you to protect her, but Lou has no one. So I need to protect him.
What is it that you need to protect Lou from?
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on December 10, 2013, at 20:49:22
In reply to Re: Please » Dr. Bob, posted by SLS on December 10, 2013, at 20:13:58
Himself?
Posted by Moishe Pipik on December 14, 2013, at 12:06:05
In reply to Re: Please » SLS, posted by Phillipa on December 10, 2013, at 20:49:22
Talk about beating a dead horse! The situation, if there really IS a situation, has been existent for a very long time, yet many members apparently cannot get beyond it. Lou has been repetitively posting pretty much the same thing for YEARS, and I'm rather surprised that so many still haven't decided to simply ignore that which they can do nothing about, except to gripe about it incessantly. Like ALL forums, opposing views are common, with the opposers always convinced that they are on the correct side. Like all forums, there are annoyingly strident posters. And like in life, nobody is going to be talked out of their positions, regardless of evidence or logic.
So, where does this leave us? And where does it lead us? For me, the answer is to (try to) simply ignore posts or posters that are useless to ME. As for correcting "misinformation", who is truly qualified to even identify what is misinformation and what is not? Face it - mental healthcare is is a difficult and much-debated thing, in general. So, why would it be any different here? I don't think it's realistic to expect these boards to be angst-free.
It is sad to see so much distress, distress that I believe is primarily the responsibility of the distressed individual.
For me, I'll try to take the "high road" of live and let live.
It seems that some here espouse a crime-and-punishment model, with the belief that the possibility of PBCs or blocks act as a deterrent to certain behaviors. Looking at our society, it is quite apparent that the model DOES NOT work, but nobody seems to learn from the failures. Sigh.
Posted by Dinah on December 14, 2013, at 12:16:54
In reply to Sorry to see so much distress, posted by Moishe Pipik on December 14, 2013, at 12:06:05
It's been going on a long time. Surely you have learned not to read the discussions if they distress you?
It is not about crime and punishment. If there is no crime, there is no punishment. It is about giving Lou the honor of being treated like everyone else, and giving others the honor of not being treated badly.
It is only fairly recently that Dr. Bob has openly declared his intent not to administrate against Lou. That is a recent disclosure. Before we could only guess. My guess as to his reasons were certainly not that he felt like Lou had no friends so he needed to guarantee Lou having no friends by allowing him to be uncivil to others.
That doesn't make sense to me. I find it insulting both to Lou and to me and to others.
But if you don't understand that, why not follow your own advice? You didn't need to say anything on the earlier thread about zzd asking for a deregister button either. You chose to. Why?
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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