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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 104 to 128 of 164. Go back in thread:
Posted by muffled on November 10, 2008, at 17:10:49
In reply to Re: Research project, posted by Dr. Bob on November 10, 2008, at 2:39:37
> Hi, everyone,
>
> Thanks for letting me know how you feel. :-) I'm trying to be careful about what I say because I don't want to bias the results. But if I'd wanted to set up an environment of secrecy, I wouldn't have said anything! The research participants will be followed for 3 months. 230 is the upper limit. They're not required to come. If they do come, they're not required to post. And they won't all come at once. Yes, it's received IRB approval.*I appreciate you saying something about this. Did you tell us originally out of consideration or because you HAD to to get approval....?
Like as not there may have been some comment if there was allasudden a large influx of posters.
> Like you, they'll be real people who come for support and education. Like you, they'll decide whether to ask for help or share joys and sorrows. Like you, they may need help getting oriented and will need to follow the board guidelines. Unlike some of you, they won't be finding this site by themselves. Please treat them the same way you would anyone else referred to this community by a third party. I'd rather let them decide what else to say about themselves. Like with anyone else, you'll decide whether to interact with them. Please don't jump to conclusions about or pressure them. I'm concerned that some newer posters may already be feeling unwelcome.*So, to rephrase.
The people comming here will be people just like the rest of us, people with mental health issues(though IMHO, EVERYBODY in the WORLD got 'issues' of one kind or another...), comming voluntarily to try out babble, who will possibly be looking for support?
But unlike us, they will be reporting back how it goes for them?(which BTW doesn't bother me).
I am not here so much anymore, but it would definately be a big deal for me, alla this, if this was 'my board' that I hung out at primarily.
That phrase "support and EDUCATION" kinda makes me nervous.....
Yes, I am a tad paranoid.
Also, as ever, you own the rights to what is posted here, so posts here, while (thankfully) anonymous, could be used in a presentation.
> I see anxiety as a natural result of change, especially with incomplete information. I apologize for not consulting with you all earlier. I think the reaction here was also a sign of the cohesiveness of this community and a desire to protect it from disruption. And I agree, a large influx of new posters could be disruptive. Do you think there should be some sort of limitation?*TY for apology. Limitation?How could you ask that? You have the #'s of new posters etc. Likely any huge numbers would be noticed. Its always a bit of time requiered B4 one feels more 'at home' in a community, it will take the new posters a bit of time to feel at home.
> There may also be anxiety about some posters being favored over others.*?this is SO classic Bob, to say something like this.....<sigh>
> I hadn't thought of the archives separately. But they may already be considered a resource for patients or trainees. What concerns do you have about that?*For myself, at one time I kinda liked the thot of the archives, but now I have changed my tune and I do not like the thot. I post on a board where, to my understanding, the archives are only kept for a relatively short period of time. I prefer that. There may come a time (I hope) where I am well enuf that I would rather not have my old 'stuff' ever be possibly connected to me. If its deleted, then it'd GONE, pretty much anyways of course.
> Finally, I agree with Seldom, good can come of this -- for current posters, for new posters, and for the community as a whole. Let's try to be open to that possibility.
*Good can come out of anything. Good can come out me getting the crap beaten outta me...
However, I also hold that growth is painful.
So maybe it will be OK.
I still however will not likely be posting much here, as once again Bob, you have reinforced the fact that you just don't have time to manage babble. Therefore, it remains rather unsafe seeming to me. I personally prefer that Bob NOT be here, but at least he should be more avail when needed, and if not to babblers in general he CERTAINLY should be MUCH more available to his deputies.
I digress.
I am scattered.
But manoman, I am sure impressed with how others responded here, there sure are some wonderful people here :-) and obviously they really care for this community enuf to express their concerns. I think that its cool so many posted to this.
Take care all.
M
Posted by twinleaf on November 10, 2008, at 17:19:41
In reply to Re: Research project, posted by Dr. Bob on November 10, 2008, at 2:39:37
I do think the archives are a uniquely rich source for people in mental health fields who want to study 1) how an on-line community helps or hinders an individual's experience and progress in therapy, or 2) the emotional reactions, tranferential and otherwise of everyone who is in therapy. As it happened, I was talking about this latter aspect with my analyst this morning, and he said that he thought the day-by-day written notes in the archives about patients' feelings and struggles, the shipwrecks and successes which are recorded there constitute a unique resource for analytically oriented therapists. He said the amount of detail and descriptions of day-to-day feelings is far greater than what is usually available to a therapist- even an analyst like him who works intensively with relatively few patients.
I don't actually know whether he has read Babble. but it would be perfectly acceptable to me if he did. And I don't mind at all if anything I've written- now in the archives- is used for any educational or therapeutic purpose. All I need is continued anonymity, which I feel certain I will always have.
Posted by Nadezda on November 10, 2008, at 17:47:31
In reply to Re: Research project » twinleaf, posted by Racer on November 10, 2008, at 15:01:56
Racer:
"I'm only trying to point out that these new people -- assuming they actually post here, which I think is a big assumption -"...
...What if no one showed up? Wouldn't it be a letdown? I personally expect to us to be flooded with eager research participants. I not only expect and dread it, but will be terribly disappointed if nothing happens.
Just a thought.
Nadezda
Posted by BayLeaf on November 10, 2008, at 18:24:11
In reply to Um, wouldn't it be ironic if... » Racer, posted by Nadezda on November 10, 2008, at 17:47:31
If they are young and used to pretty interfaces (and aren't we all at this point?)....this place will make them laugh. It still sorta cracks me up.
Bay
Posted by raisinb on November 10, 2008, at 20:07:10
In reply to Research project, posted by Dr. Bob on November 8, 2008, at 2:22:01
For some reason, this freaks me out, so I'm going to lay low for awhile until I see how things pan out on the boards. I want you all to know that I'm lurking (and caring about all of you) from the sidelines, and I'll post brief messages of support if I have some to offer.
Hugs to everyone!
-Raisin
Posted by stellabystarlight on November 10, 2008, at 21:25:04
In reply to Um, wouldn't it be ironic if... » Racer, posted by Nadezda on November 10, 2008, at 17:47:31
Yes, I thought the same thing. After all this...wouldn't it be ironic if this research brought only a few participants? Posting yet another "Help, I'm in love with my therapist!" - Which now I'm embarrassed to admit is how I came here. I don't think I even knew how to spell the word transference back then. And after 3 months here, I advanced to posting (cringe) "Urge to dress provocatively in therapy"...without any insight. Those archives...thank goodness I can be anonymous. Sincere apologies to any of you who also might have found Psycho-Babble in a similar fashion. Nothing wrong with any of it...I'm only embarrassed for myself.
Having been here 7 months, I've not only grown psychologically, but I have also grown to care about and respect all of you after lurking, posting and reading your moving stories. It's been an honor and a pleasure to be able to connect to people from all walks of life and from all over the world. I'm grateful to you for teaching me so much by taking me deeper into myself through yourselves. Even my therapy has been enhanced since coming here.
I hope that Psycho-Babble can somehow help them as well, even if via a research project. For me, the anxiety brought on by this research will have been worth it if Psycho-Babble ends up helping even one research participant. I know I've been helped by this site through many dark times. I'm truly impressed by the heart and the brain power shown by all of you, especially on this thread. Now that I've thought about your excellent questions regarding this project and Dr. B's response to it, I hope they come and post, all 230 of them. So that I can learn from your spot-on and insightful replies!
Maybe we'll learn more about ourselves through this project. I don't think there's any wrong or right way to feel about this research, but I think it's a great opportunity to look deeper into our reactions to it. It was interesting to me that at first, Dr. Bob felt to me like a detached and uncommunicative father who out of the blue announced that he was remarrying and moving in hundreds of step-siblings to our house. Now, he feels like a well-meaning, but a very busy father who's finally calming our anxieties about having to share our house with the new siblings...interesting material for therapy.
I think I will be disappointed if nothing happens.
Take care and hugs to all of you.
Posted by obsidian on November 10, 2008, at 22:57:06
In reply to Um, wouldn't it be ironic, heart,brain power here. » Nadezda, posted by stellabystarlight on November 10, 2008, at 21:25:04
to study... oh well
geez, I've been here for years (how'd that happen?)
I don't really recall how I found this site.
It'd be a different thing I suppose to be referred here.
I'm not sure how I feel about babble getting a lot bigger. I like my special little haunt with these lovely and familiar names.
(((you guys)))
Posted by Dinah on November 10, 2008, at 23:05:33
In reply to hmmm...I kind of wish I was interesting enough...., posted by obsidian on November 10, 2008, at 22:57:06
((( you guys )))
If only all lively and passionate discussions were this respectful and constructive, I'd be able to watch the news without a finger on the remote.
Posted by lucie lu on November 11, 2008, at 10:24:19
In reply to take care everyone, posted by raisinb on November 10, 2008, at 20:07:10
Aw Raisin,
I understand your feelings but hope that you feel comfortable posting again soon. It will help to know that you will be lurking and step into the fray occasionally. In the meantime, I will miss hearing from you.
Take care,
Lucie
Posted by lucie lu on November 11, 2008, at 10:27:23
In reply to Re: Research project » lucie lu, posted by twinleaf on November 9, 2008, at 19:59:31
Posted by lucie lu on November 11, 2008, at 10:41:00
In reply to Re: Research project, posted by Dr. Bob on November 10, 2008, at 2:39:37
If this project was supported by NIMH, it was probably designed within a hypothesis-testing framework. I would venture the following guess about the project ;)That the hypothesis, based on feedback about this site written in our posts, is that this sort of forum is helpful as adjunct to therapy. The project would therefore be to test this hypothesis by taking people in therapy or maybe in different stages of therapy, suggesting that they use this site, and getting feedback from them and also their therapists about whether participating on Babble helped them or not. At least that's what I would do in Bob's position and given his clinical interests. So we are not the subjects (we couldn't be anyway since we are anonymous) but the hope is that we will keep on doing what we do and participate with any new Babblers who were referred to the site. There's nothing to say that they couldn't stay on if they find it helpful.
So that's my entry for the "guess the study" contest :) If true, I wouldn't have a problem with the experiment per se unless, as discussed, there was an avalanche of new users. But I know I would feel a little weird at first and might not welcome newcomers as warmly as I would normally, maybe a bit more warily. Not proud of that, just being realistic about myself and that I tend to be a bit suspicious of strangers anyway.
Lucie
Posted by muffled on November 11, 2008, at 11:06:24
In reply to Re: Research project, posted by lucie lu on November 11, 2008, at 10:41:00
lotsa good stuff said.
well said lucie.
Raisin, hope you keep posting.
Just post to those you know if you want.
Take care all
M
Posted by stellabystarlight on November 11, 2008, at 11:49:01
In reply to Re: Research project, posted by lucie lu on November 11, 2008, at 10:41:00
> If this project was supported by NIMH, it was probably designed within a hypothesis-testing framework. I would venture the following guess about the project ;)
That the hypothesis, based on feedback about this site written in our posts, is that this sort of forum is helpful as adjunct to therapy. The project would therefore be to test this hypothesis by taking people in therapy or maybe in different stages of therapy, suggesting that they use this site, and getting feedback from them and also their therapists about whether participating on Babble helped them or not. At least that's what I would do in Bob's position and given his clinical interests. So we are not the subjects (we couldn't be anyway since we are anonymous) but the hope is that we will keep on doing what we do and participate with any new Babblers who were referred to the site. There's nothing to say that they couldn't stay on if they find it helpful.
So that's my entry for the "guess the study" contest :) If true, I wouldn't have a problem with the experiment per se unless, as discussed, there was an avalanche of new users. But I know I would feel a little weird at first and might not welcome newcomers as warmly as I would normally, maybe a bit more warily. Not proud of that, just being realistic about myself and that I tend to be a bit suspicious of strangers anyway.
Lucie
I agree with your guess, Lucie...I had the same thoughts about the study. Thanks as always for articulating my thoughts so well.So, late last night I was babbling about hoping that all 230 participants post here...well, if I'm being honest, I'm finding myself suspiciously looking around this morning to see which poster might be part of the study by guaging sincerity of their posts and whatnot. And feeling a little anxious about seeing a flood of green colored "new" flags all over the boards. And relieved and reassured to see familiar names like Lucie, Twinleaf, Dinah, etc...
I'm also scared of the unknown possible changes, but at the same time fascinated by what this research has brought. Maybe I've been reading too many psych books lately, but I can't help but notice all the transference/countertransference on the board since the research announcement, and be fascinated by it. I feel like a little kid nervous and excited at the same time...waiting at the top of the stairs to see who's going to come through the door.
Stellabystarlight
Posted by Deneb on November 11, 2008, at 12:02:36
In reply to Re: Research project » lucie lu, posted by stellabystarlight on November 11, 2008, at 11:49:01
Hmmm...I don't remember who wrote the post about comparing the new participants to new siblings, but I thought that might be true for me.
I'm wondering if I'm anxious and maybe a bit jealous.
I wonder if they will be special etc.
LOL and Dr. Bob is like our dad. ROFL I think, will they get special treatment?
I think I'm OK with this for now.
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 11, 2008, at 15:44:52
In reply to Re: Research project, posted by muffled on November 10, 2008, at 17:10:49
> Did you tell us originally out of consideration or because you HAD to to get approval....?
Out of consideration.
> unlike us, they will be reporting back how it goes for them?
Yes, post-study questionnaires will be collected from them. You can of course let me know how this goes for you. Would you be interested in reporting as part of the study, too?
> > a large influx of new posters could be disruptive. Do you think there should be some sort of limitation?
>
> Limitation?How could you ask that?For example, the number during a particular time period could be limited, and beyond that they could be asked to wait.
> There may come a time (I hope) where I am well enuf that I would rather not have my old 'stuff' ever be possibly connected to me.
I can understand wanting to leave the past behind, thanks.
> I am sure impressed with how others responded here, there sure are some wonderful people here :-) and obviously they really care for this community enuf to express their concerns. I think that its cool so many posted to this.
Me, too!
Bob
Posted by lucie lu on November 11, 2008, at 16:46:20
In reply to Re: Research project, posted by Dr. Bob on November 11, 2008, at 15:44:52
> > > a large influx of new posters could be disruptive. Do you think there should be some sort of limitation?
> For example, the number during a particular time period could be limited, and beyond that they could be asked to wait.Bob,
Thanks for the clarifications. I think a limit might be a good idea, at least for the Psych board, if a satisfactory mechanism can be found. (I really can't say anything about the other boards, which perhaps present less of a problem in this respect; my comments really only concern the Psych board.) Apart from the more abstract concern of disrupting the community, there is a more practical consideration: we can only respond to so many people at a time! The usual response to new posters is to welcome them but also to respond to their threads. This initial response is really important to help someone enter the community and feel that they might really matter. It is important enough that many of us still remember our first posts and people who responded to them! The reality is that there is rarely enough time to produce a considered reply to than a handful of threads at a time; this in addition to any we might introduce ourselves. Let's say we get three new posters one night, for example, and one or all start threads that require something other than "welcome to Babble." If they are new, I would want to respond to them. However, I want to still have time for the people I know who have threads going, and there are often a number of those too. I realize that the "burden" (pardon my saying that, you know what I mean) is spread among the community but in reality there are a finite number of people who actually post regularly at any given point in time. We all feel guilty when we get busy and don't have time to respond to the threads of people we know and care about; then add in new people as well and, well, you get the picture. There wouldn't seem to be much value for the study if the new posters overwhelmed the board so it couldn't operate as business as usual.
It might be helpful to hear from others, specifically from the Psych board but maybe also people who post on other boards, how many new people they think the board could handle, say, per week? Specifying the board they are referring to would be helpful; clearly they do not all have the same issues.
Lucie
Posted by Dinah on November 11, 2008, at 17:22:41
In reply to Re: Research project, posted by Dr. Bob on November 11, 2008, at 15:44:52
Maybe I'm just perverse. But while I wasn't too crazy about the idea of change, I'm also not crazy about the idea of limitations.
I suppose the sheer volume, given the volume of the board right now, does bother me a bit. Yet the idea of putting a numerical limit also bothers me, for some reason.
I suppose my thought is that not all will have issues that will draw them to any one board. They'll probably have differing degrees of comfort at jumping in vs tiptoeing in. As others have mentioned, they may or may not find Babble all that engaging for various reasons.
Or maybe my anxiety just wars with my feelings of obligation to be hospitable and welcoming.
It seems a bit unfortunate that this will happen before Dr Bob had a chance to get around to some of the housekeeping he's discussed over time. The closing of some boards, and trying to fix the issues regarding Newbies. The setup is a bit confusing, and given the low volume on some boards, it could be a bit less than welcoming as well.
Posted by Dinah on November 11, 2008, at 17:47:14
In reply to Re: Research project, posted by Dr. Bob on November 11, 2008, at 15:44:52
I do think it would be a good idea for you to block out enough time to keep an eye on things.
Posted by seldomseen on November 11, 2008, at 18:01:31
In reply to Re: Research project » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on November 11, 2008, at 17:47:14
> I do think it would be a good idea for you to block out enough time to keep an eye on things.
I think that would be a very very good idea as well.
Posted by muffled on November 11, 2008, at 18:06:23
In reply to Re: Research project - Dr. Bob » Dinah, posted by seldomseen on November 11, 2008, at 18:01:31
Posted by muffled on November 11, 2008, at 22:54:59
In reply to Re: Research project, posted by Dr. Bob on November 11, 2008, at 15:44:52
> > Did you tell us originally out of consideration or because you HAD to to get approval....?
>
> Out of consideration.* well I AM pleased to hear that :-)
> > unlike us, they will be reporting back how it goes for them?
>
> Yes, post-study questionnaires will be collected from them. You can of course let me know how this goes for you. Would you be interested in reporting as part of the study, too?*I think there would be MANY babblers who would fill out a questionaire if one was posted, or a link to one.....
> > Limitation?How could you ask that?
>
> For example, the number during a particular time period could be limited, and beyond that they could be asked to wait.*Mebbe ask Dinah or somebody, or there's some smart folks out there who will post bout it. Mebbe start a thread bout it if they care. I REAL bad with numbers.
> > I am sure impressed with how others responded here, there sure are some wonderful people here :-) and obviously they really care for this community enuf to express their concerns. I think that its cool so many posted to this.
>
> Me, too!*:-) Just left this cuz its a happy thing.
M
Posted by obsidian on November 11, 2008, at 23:19:50
In reply to Re: Research project, posted by Dr. Bob on November 11, 2008, at 15:44:52
> Yes, post-study questionnaires will be collected from them. You can of course let me know how this goes for you. Would you be interested in reporting as part of the study, too?
yes, I would
> > > a large influx of new posters could be disruptive. Do you think there should be some sort of limitation?phasing them in seems like a good strategy, just not all at once, we can get to know them hopefully a little at a time
green flags remind me of little surrender flags
you can't respond to too many little notes in a bottle all at once
Posted by muffled on November 11, 2008, at 23:38:53
In reply to Re: Research project » Dr. Bob, posted by obsidian on November 11, 2008, at 23:19:50
just cuz
:-)
Posted by Deneb on November 11, 2008, at 23:51:35
In reply to Re: Research project » Dr. Bob, posted by obsidian on November 11, 2008, at 23:19:50
> > Yes, post-study questionnaires will be collected from them. You can of course let me know how this goes for you. Would you be interested in reporting as part of the study, too?
>
> yes, I wouldI wanna be special too! LOL Guinea pigs are soooo cute. ROFL
Just kidding, I mean, um, I would also like to contribute to medical research. LOL
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 12, 2008, at 1:46:41
In reply to Re: Research project, posted by muffled on November 11, 2008, at 22:54:59
> *I think there would be MANY babblers who would fill out a questionaire if one was posted, or a link to one.....
I'll ask, it wasn't part of the plan...
Bob
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