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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 10 to 34 of 88. Go back in thread:
Posted by Happyflower on April 20, 2007, at 17:17:16
In reply to i'm just glad... (kk trigger), posted by karen_kay on April 20, 2007, at 17:14:15
um, I guess I just have compassion for animals and all living things and making jokes about be cruel is not my style.
Hopefully nothing will ever happen to the ones you love animals or people, because maybe you will understand where I am coming from, but I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
Posted by Happyflower on April 20, 2007, at 17:18:52
In reply to Re: i'm just glad... (kk trigger) » karen_kay, posted by Happyflower on April 20, 2007, at 17:17:16
and you KK trigger isn't funny either, you are making fun of me.
Posted by Happyflower on April 20, 2007, at 17:26:52
In reply to Re: I feel animal cruelity jokes shouldn't be allowed » Happyflower, posted by zazenducke on April 20, 2007, at 17:10:56
> Happy flower I am sorry that wasn't my intention at all.
I believe you are sincere, thank you.
>
> I have no idea what GG meant by her post to me. I felt intimidated but I have no idea what she meant to communicate to me. I'm sorry I didn't just ignore her.Well there is a reason you felt intimidated, this is exactly what I am talking about. Seeing so innocent, but yet if you look through the veil, you can read the message loud and clear. I know what she was trying to communicate to you and it wasn't support for me and my thread. In fact it had to do with a lot of other threads at the moment, not just this thread. I poured my heart out, and it got stomped on. But you didn't see what motives was in her post. So I accept your appology, you are innocent in this. And oh , yeah, I can report this post, but who am I reporting it to? This is my point. I am defenseless.
Posted by Dinah on April 20, 2007, at 17:40:37
In reply to Re: i'm just glad... (kk trigger), posted by Happyflower on April 20, 2007, at 17:18:52
> and you KK trigger isn't funny either, you are making fun of me.
Please don't jump to conclusions about others, or post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Dr. Bob is always free to override deputy decisions. His email is on the bottom of each page. Please feel free to email him if you believe this decision was made in error.
Dinah, acting as deputy to Dr. Bob
Posted by Happyflower on April 20, 2007, at 18:19:32
In reply to Please Be Civil » Happyflower, posted by Dinah on April 20, 2007, at 17:40:37
Thank you so much Dinah for the civil warning.
Posted by Gabbi-2 on April 20, 2007, at 21:24:06
In reply to i'm just glad... (kk trigger), posted by karen_kay on April 20, 2007, at 17:14:15
This has gone far beyond any jokes, and any semblance of sensitivity to other beings as far as I know it anyway.
If there's one thing that I will never be able to stomach it's watching people get beaten emotionally to a bloody pulp by the "sensitivity" hammers of others.
Posted by Dinah on April 20, 2007, at 22:06:31
In reply to Re: i'm just glad... (kk trigger) » karen_kay, posted by Gabbi-2 on April 20, 2007, at 21:24:06
> If there's one thing that I will never be able to stomach it's watching people get beaten emotionally to a bloody pulp by the "sensitivity" hammers of others.
Please respect the views of others even if you think they're wrong. Please be sensitive to their feelings even if yours are hurt. Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Dr. Bob is always free to override deputy decisions. His email is on the bottom of each page. Please feel free to email him if you believe this decision was made in error.
Dinah, acting as deputy to Dr. Bob
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on April 20, 2007, at 22:25:33
In reply to Please be civil » Gabbi-2, posted by Dinah on April 20, 2007, at 22:06:31
Happy, I didn't read the jokes because that kind of humor is not my thing.
I'm so sorry about what has happened. I know there's nothing *I* can do to make things better for you.
Will you stay, though? I like you lots and I would miss you so much if you left.
please take care,
-Ll
Posted by muffled on April 20, 2007, at 23:50:01
In reply to ((((((Happyflower)))))), posted by LlurpsieNoodle on April 20, 2007, at 22:25:33
Hope you doin OK
Muffled
Posted by karen_kay on April 21, 2007, at 7:36:03
In reply to Re: i'm just glad... (kk trigger), posted by Happyflower on April 20, 2007, at 17:18:52
i wasn't making fun of you. i don't want you to feel that way. if my post hurt you, i'm sorry. but, i did put a trigger warning up, hence the point of the warning.
hf, it seems i'm getting into messes everywhere. and i certainly don't want to mess this one up. i'll not go into any unneeded details, but i assure you i don't abuse animals.
since when does telling a joke make one uncapable of feeling compassion? what if it had been a robot? would that have been bettter? (and sweetie, i assure you, there's no sarcasm here. i'm rather fond of you. remember all those nights in chat? i remember you were the first to ask about me when i was blocked. honestly it hurts to think that you think i'm making fun of you. what i am doing is trying to difuse the situation a bit. that's what i do.).
please dont think i'm making fun of you. it's rarely what i do. actually, it's never what i do.
like i said on social, it's not anyone in particular making me feel like a trigger, it's everything i write. perhaps i'm a trigger to myself.
i understand you have certain feelings about these issues, much as i do. and, much as i want to verify that i've done this and that to help animals, that's jsut going to make me feel better, and i'd much rathe rmake you feel better.
so, tell me, what can i do? (other than posting kk trigger, even though i've been posting that because it seems everythign i put on this board is triggering, not you, perhaps i'm triggering myself? so, if it makes you fel better, i'll discontinue the 'kk trigger' darling.) what else? how bout breakfast in bed a drive in that car of mine?
and one more thing, god forbid something should happen to my family. i'm not quite sure what you meant by that one or why it was worded the way it was. that one kinda stuck with me. how are you feeling dear? i hope you're doing well. my family's good. i'll do my best and assume you were asking how they were?
Posted by Happyflower on April 21, 2007, at 7:54:16
In reply to ((((((Happyflower)))))), posted by LlurpsieNoodle on April 20, 2007, at 22:25:33
> I'm so sorry about what has happened. I know there's nothing *I* can do to make things better for you.
Actually *you* have helped by responding to me in support, thank you.
> Will you stay, though? I like you lots and I would miss you so much if you left.I just don't know if I can stay in a place that allows animals abuse jokes. I speak out against it, and I become an *ss ,the problem, instead of what I am speaking out against in the first place. Kinda like the saying "don't kill the messenger".
Yeah, but I am okay, in fact maybe staying here when I am fine, may be causing me more harm than what is good. Maybe I need to put my energies into some real causes in the real world, where my efforts would be appreciated. Maybe staying here, keeps me stuck, because I am unable to really help anyone or to help make this site better because the threat of change(even for the better), creates too much resistance. Well it is becoming a waste of my time to persue. I care about babble very much, but I think I am not needed here. I think "I" don't need babble much anymore.
In real life the jokes we tell others, are a representive of who we are, and what we believe.
We may think it is harmless, but it will make an impact on what others think of us.For example telling racist jokes may seem harmless. But it in reality helps keep racism alive by making it "okay" to put ourselves above a certain race.
Telling animal cruelity jokes allows those who do abuse animals (which is a higher number than one might think) to continue to do so, because it is "funny" or accepted.
Do we want Babble to represent this? That is all I ask.
Sorry for the long post, but it is one of the many things I am passionate about.
Peace to all, animals too.Happyflower
Posted by gardenergirl on April 21, 2007, at 8:14:50
In reply to Re: ((((((Happyflower)))))) » LlurpsieNoodle, posted by Happyflower on April 21, 2007, at 7:54:16
For the record, according to my records, no one has reported the posts with the jokes for review. Dr. Bob has not been through that board since the thread began, to my knowledge. No action does not necessarily mean that posts are considered acceptable.
Namaste
gg
Posted by Happyflower on April 21, 2007, at 8:24:10
In reply to I don't know that any have been reviewed, posted by gardenergirl on April 21, 2007, at 8:14:50
So are you saying that a thread HAS to be reported by someone in order for a deputy or Dr. Bob to do anything about it?
I thought that was just only PART of the system. I believe most deputies have read the posts without it being reported, and nothing happened. So based on this, since you are the enforcers of babble , that it IS accepted here, because lack of any action seems to prove that to me.
Posted by Happyflower on April 21, 2007, at 8:41:21
In reply to dear, » Happyflower, posted by karen_kay on April 21, 2007, at 7:36:03
and one more thing, god forbid something should happen to my family. i'm not quite sure what you meant by that one or why it was worded the way it was. that one kinda stuck with me.Well the wording has to do with not getting blocked because as you can understand my posts are under radar now.
What I meant about the family thing is that most of us here, has had things happen to us, family, pets and otherwise. I don't know if you have or not but most of us who have seen abuse of animals or people would never joke about it especially on a mental health forum in which the majority of readers would be offended or bothered by it.
I know a lot of jokes that would offend a lot of surviors, but I wouldn't tell them for 1) I don't joke about abuse 2)I would be more selective of the jokes I would tell on Babble because of the sensitivity of many of the readers concerning those sensitive subjects, and
3) I don't believe those jokes don't belong on a mental health site.
Perhaps if it was a Jerry Springer site, there is no need to censor one's jokes, but on Babble I would like to see some sensitivity to what is allowed with or without a trigger.I have nothing against you, you are a wonderful girl, who is a lot of fun. I am just against the animal jokes you posted for the reason I have stated above.
For example if you had a friend who went through being raped. Would you tell her a joke of that nature? Do you think she would be sensitive to that even if you were just joking? If you went through a rape, would you be likely to tell a joke about it?
When I tell a joke, and I tell a lot of them, I consider how someone might preceive it. So anything "controversial" like animal cruelity, would not be in my "bag of jokes" I tell. There are a lot of "safe" jokes that can be told that is just as funny and less likely to hurt anyone.
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on April 21, 2007, at 8:43:36
In reply to Re: ((((((Happyflower)))))) » LlurpsieNoodle, posted by Happyflower on April 21, 2007, at 7:54:16
> > I'm so sorry about what has happened. I know there's nothing *I* can do to make things better for you.
>
> Actually *you* have helped by responding to me in support, thank you.
>
That's what babble's good for (sometimes-- except admin stuff. that is not guaranteed or designed to be supportive. unfortunately.)> > Will you stay, though? I like you lots and I would miss you so much if you left.
>
> I just don't know if I can stay in a place that allows animals abuse jokes. I speak out against it, and I become an *ss ,the problem, instead of what I am speaking out against in the first place. Kinda like the saying "don't kill the messenger".I think that you may be first to bring it up on this particular thread. the admin is off doing other stuff (IRL, i would assume). It's hard to get their attention these days. And forget about having a timely resolution to troubling issues. THAT has always been a major sticky place in babble. the endless diatribes about a grey area where everyone just mucks about in the dirt and everyone gets dirtier and messier and feels worse for having jumped in. Now that there IS less admin presence I think we have to be more patient and to use the little clicky box when something catches our eye that may contain uncivil content. That's the best and fastest way to get the attention.
> Yeah, but I am okay, in fact maybe staying here when I am fine, may be causing me more harm than what is good. Maybe I need to put my energies into some real causes in the real world, where my efforts would be appreciated. Maybe staying here, keeps me stuck, because I am unable to really help anyone or to help make this site better because the threat of change(even for the better), creates too much resistance. Well it is becoming a waste of my time to persue. I care about babble very much, but I think I am not needed here. I think "I" don't need babble much anymore.
I'm glad that you don't NEED babble, but it's okay just to stop by and say hi every now and then. Kind of like friends, you know. You dont' NEED them (except rarely), BUT it's always nice to know that you can come here and find some. If babble is troubling, just hang out on my threads, or start your own. I try to keep my threads clean of incivilities. I try to stay safe myself.
Part of staying safe is knowing when you've had enough of something. Your messages sound like you've had enough of this issue, and perhaps of babble alltogether. It's okay to take some time off. I'll be here when you want to come back. :)
> In real life the jokes we tell others, are a representive of who we are, and what we believe.
> We may think it is harmless, but it will make an impact on what others think of us.
>
> For example telling racist jokes may seem harmless. But it in reality helps keep racism alive by making it "okay" to put ourselves above a certain race.
>
> Telling animal cruelity jokes allows those who do abuse animals (which is a higher number than one might think) to continue to do so, because it is "funny" or accepted.
> Do we want Babble to represent this? That is all I ask.
> Sorry for the long post, but it is one of the many things I am passionate about.
> Peace to all, animals too.
>
> Happyflower
>I'm glad you're passionate about animal cruelty. That seems like a healthy thing to be passionate about. I've adopted two formerly homeless kitties myself, and they have given me lots of love. One of them was in the shelter for 2 months. If not for animal rescue charities the city pound would have ... and that makes me cry because kitty is an absolute darling.
You may not get exactly what you're hoping for (which is a rule change? the rule would be something like "do not refer lightly to animal cruelty?") immediately, but I'm glad that you've brought this to everyone's attention. There are plenty of jokes in the world to tell. just say LlurpsieNoodle. That's a big joke. My joke.
Take care, and do grace us with your passion and smarts and caring when/if you figure out how to make babble feel like a good part of your life again.
best to you friend,
-Ll
Posted by Happyflower on April 21, 2007, at 9:19:16
In reply to Re: ((((((Happyflower)))))) » Happyflower, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on April 21, 2007, at 8:43:36
Hi Lurpsie,
Thank you so much! ;-) I do need friends, I think everyone needs friend and loved ones, it is what makes life worth living. I guess I am at a point in my life that I am getting other support other than Babble. Now babble is great to have it is the only support you have in life, but I am finding out that friends that are more tangible, ones you can physically see and touch, are more benificial. For one I don't do see you just as a babble friend, I see you as more than that.
There is much research done on the "happiness" and being "satified" in life with so much text messageing, chat,(electronic media), compaired to face to face interaction. They have found in many studies that lack of face to face interaction even with friends we did not meet online, is less satisfying and is leading to a lot of unmet personal needs.
Babble has it's place, but we need more than that I believe.
I guess I am becoming quite the activist in issues that are dear to me, like fighting against abuse of all living things actually. Racism, unequality , etc. too many to list. But I have to be careful I guess because some don't welcome change, look what happened to Jessie Jackson?
Maybe Babble isn't ready for change and me trying to help, is only causing resistance, and bad feelings against me for trying to help. Maybe I need to put my energies into other organizations where I feel I can make a difference.
I will probably not leave babble ,but I think I will limit how much time I spend on the site, at least I don't plan on leaving the friends who I talk to through emails who I have met (like you) But I am sorry you are moving, I hope it isnt' too far from me, because I would like to have another almond pastery and 1/2 order of eggs benedict before you go. :-) Actually after finals I plan on being "in town" with my kids for fun, so maybe we can hook up? They want to go to the "astronomy place" and watch those cool 3D movies that are educational but fun. LOL
Posted by gardenergirl on April 21, 2007, at 9:35:37
In reply to Re: I don't know that any have been reviewed » gardenergirl, posted by Happyflower on April 21, 2007, at 8:24:10
> So are you saying that a thread HAS to be reported by someone in order for a deputy or Dr. Bob to do anything about it?
That's not at all what I'm saying. I was talking about a specific thread. I said that I don't know that anyone has reviewed the thread for civility, and I pointed out that no action now does not necessarily equal no action later. If you extrapolate to the general based on one specific data point, you run a higher risk of forming an incorrect heuristic.
>
> I thought that was just only PART of the system. I believe most deputies have read the posts without it being reported, and nothing happened.On what do you base this belief? You haven't asked me if I've read them, though I'm just one deputy. Have you asked any of the others? I don't know if any of the other deputies have or have not read the thread. Even if any have, none of us ever *have to* act on something. We can always choose to defer the matter to the other deputies and/or Dr. Bob for whatever reason. And we have done so in other situations for a variety of reasons. http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#have-to
Thus, no action by a deputy does not equal the deputies have read it and decided it was okay.> So based on this, since you are the enforcers of babble , that it IS accepted here, because lack of any action seems to prove that to me.
I come to a different conclusion, though my thought process is based on a different data set. Remember, you can't prove a negative. You can always assume one, but that increases your chances for error.
Namaste
gg
Posted by Dinah on April 21, 2007, at 9:49:19
In reply to I don't know that any have been reviewed, posted by gardenergirl on April 21, 2007, at 8:14:50
FWIW, which as always probably isn't much. And I hope that it doesn't just make things worse as it often does.
At the current time to my knowledge, animal cruelty jokes are not against the civility rules, and cannot be acted upon by deputies. Because we really don't have any power, we only have the authority to act on existing rules in the way we think Dr. Bob would.
It is possible to campaign for adding animal cruelty jokes to the civility guidelines. The campaign would need to be addressed to Dr. Bob, who is the only person with the power to make a rule change. The campaign would, of course, have to be civil under existing rules. And posts or posters should not be pointed out as examples, because that's what the report this post button is for.
As always with a new or newish rule, I must add that Dr. Bob will correct me if I'm incorrect in my interpretation about the new report this post function rule, and what is allowable to discuss on admin (in generalities) in light of the new rule. It might be wise to wait until he has a chance to do so.
This post is made with only the intent to be helpful as best I can and to clarify the rules as best I know them. There is no intent to do anything else whatsoever.
I'm sorry if my post, for whatever reason, does not accomplish its intended goals.
Posted by Dinah on April 21, 2007, at 9:50:57
In reply to Re: I don't know that any have been reviewed » Happyflower, posted by gardenergirl on April 21, 2007, at 9:35:37
And as I said above, my interpretation is only that.
Posted by gardenergirl on April 21, 2007, at 9:57:18
In reply to Whoops. We crossposted. :) » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on April 21, 2007, at 9:50:57
No worries. You presented a constructive approach, probably a much better way to respond than a reactionary response (mine).
Yeah Dinah!
namaste
gg
Posted by karen_kay on April 21, 2007, at 10:00:07
In reply to Re: dear, rape triggers » karen_kay, posted by Happyflower on April 21, 2007, at 8:41:21
are you doing ok dear?
i've been very lucky in life (i suppose) and survived what i have. i like to think i've come out on top, with my wonderful personality and all.
if someone were to post a joke about sexual abuse (incest whatever you want to call it) and i felt unable to read it, i just wouldn't.
that's pretty much my take on things.
but, i hope you're doing well dear. and i hope this isn't upsetting you. i know, i know, i'm certain it is. and i regret any part i've had in upsetting you. but, is babbleland to become vanillaland now?
i should be allowed to post just as much as anyone else. at least i think. and i shouldn't feel bad about what i post. blocked, if it's deemed uncivil? sure enough! but, i have enough anxiety to run all the cars in america on and this sure isn't helping it.
how about this joke dear......
what did one cow say to the other?
moooooooooo
that wasn't me being a bitch, that was a civil joke dear.
Posted by Happyflower on April 21, 2007, at 10:02:11
In reply to Whoops. We crossposted. :) » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on April 21, 2007, at 9:50:57
I feel we can't have a rule about everything that is concidered uncivil, the list would be so long nobody would have time to read it.
Joking about animal abuse or any abuse for that matter should in my view be a "given" in a mental health site. If it is against the law to engage in these behaviors, that might be a big tip off what is or not civil to joke about. These loop holes can cause an issue to esculate because poster are left to deal with it alone without any suport from a deputy.
I realize that if there has to be an exact rule before it is enforced, it gives deputies a huge loop hole not to respond. I believe there has been many "please be civil " warnings given to posters, where the rules of civility are IMPLIED, but not exactly stated as an EXACT rule, concerning an exact subject.
Posted by Happyflower on April 21, 2007, at 10:14:46
In reply to Re: I don't know that any have been reviewed » Happyflower, posted by gardenergirl on April 21, 2007, at 9:35:37
> > So are you saying that a thread HAS to be reported by someone in order for a deputy or Dr. Bob to do anything about it?
>
> That's not at all what I'm saying. I was talking about a specific thread. I said that I don't know that anyone has reviewed the thread for civility, and I pointed out that no action now does not necessarily equal no action laterIf deputies have responed on that thread is it wrong to assume they have reviewed it?
. If you extrapolate to the general based on one specific data point, you run a higher risk of forming an incorrect heuristic.
This is why I asked you about it, to clarify what you meant.
> > I thought that was just only PART of the system. I believe most deputies have read the posts without it being reported, and nothing happened.
>
> On what do you base this belief? You haven't asked me if I've read them, though I'm just one deputy. Have you asked any of the others? I don't know if any of the other deputies have or have not read the thread. Even if any have, none of us ever *have to* act on something. We can always choose to defer the matter to the other deputies and/or Dr. Bob for whatever reason. And we have done so in other situations for a variety of reasons. http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#have-toOkay this tells me a lot. I think the "don't have to" causes a lot esculation in problems because we count on deputies to act on it, if they can choose not to act on it, we don't know the reasons, what if it is because they like the poster, and don't want to hurt them with an action. What if they don't like the poster, and they really want to "stick it to them" because they personally don't like the poster. This "don't have to respond" leaves the actions of deputies open to their subjective views and not based on objective basis. There is especially true when they hold a duel role here.
>
> > So based on this, since you are the enforcers of babble , that it IS accepted here, because lack of any action seems to prove that to me.
>
> I come to a different conclusion, though my thought process is based on a different data set. Remember, you can't prove a negative. You can always assume one, but that increases your chances for error.
>
> Namaste
>
> gg
>
>
Posted by kninelover on April 21, 2007, at 10:33:21
In reply to Re: I don't know that any have been reviewed » gardenergirl, posted by Happyflower on April 21, 2007, at 10:14:46
a deputy can ignor an uncivil post...("does not have to act on.."
a deputy can block who she/he wants to?
how can we tell when a deputy is being a deputy?
Posted by Dinah on April 21, 2007, at 10:40:58
In reply to confused... » Happyflower, posted by kninelover on April 21, 2007, at 10:33:21
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