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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 66 to 90 of 136. Go back in thread:
Posted by Deneb on January 18, 2007, at 15:59:49
In reply to Re: pressure vs. coerce (PS), posted by one woman cine on January 18, 2007, at 15:56:01
> What do you mean by getting help?
>
> I, presonally, am not asking you change overnight. However, I think it is good practice to call your pdoc when you overdose. I think that means you are getting the help you need, when you need it.I *DID* try to call my pdoc when I overdosed. She CANNOT be reached after hours and I have a feeling she doesn't want me to call her. She thinks I can deal with it on my own through self talk or by writing about it on Babble.
I'm getting help by seeing a T. My pdoc IS my T. I tell her *everything*.
Deneb*
Posted by one woman cine on January 18, 2007, at 16:03:59
In reply to Re: pressure vs. coerce (PS) » one woman cine, posted by Deneb on January 18, 2007, at 15:59:49
I thought you said you would try to call your pdoc the next morning, since you couldn't reach her that night - & the next morning you said, you decided not to call.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
"She thinks I can deal with it on my own through self talk or by writing about it on Babble."
Is this true? She said this to you?
Posted by Deneb on January 18, 2007, at 16:09:13
In reply to Re: pressure vs. coerce (PS) » Deneb, posted by one woman cine on January 18, 2007, at 16:03:59
> I thought you said you would try to call your pdoc the next morning, since you couldn't reach her that night - & the next morning you said, you decided not to call.
>
> Please correct me if I'm wrong.
>
> "She thinks I can deal with it on my own through self talk or by writing about it on Babble."
>
> Is this true? She said this to you?
>My pdoc has never ever said it's OK to call her while in crises. She has never said I could call her. I don't think she wants me to call her. She asked me what I could do next time I want to OD. We came up with some things to do. I can try to think rationally about things by using cognitive behavioural techniques. I can call the Distress Centre. I can post to Babble about it. I can try to distract myself. Those were the things we came up with. She didn't offer that I could call her. I don't think she wants me to call her.
Deneb*
Posted by one woman cine on January 18, 2007, at 16:12:12
In reply to Re: pressure vs. coerce (PS) » one woman cine, posted by Deneb on January 18, 2007, at 16:09:13
You are saying that she has never explicity made the staement "don't call"? right?
You didn't answer my original question - you said you would call your pdoc the next day at the urging of other babblers, yet the next day, you said you decided not to.
Please correct me if I am wrong. I may be confused.
Posted by one woman cine on January 18, 2007, at 16:15:27
In reply to Re: pressure vs. coerce (PS) » one woman cine, posted by Deneb on January 18, 2007, at 16:09:13
Oh & plus, since you pdoc is an MD - they take a hippocratic outh to save lives.
Have you asked her if you could call or are you hoping she will ask you?
"She didn't offer that I could call her. I don't think she wants me to call her."
It is important to be able to ask for the right help for ourselves, with the right people, when we need it. Your pdoc is that person, calling her after an OD seems reasonable to me.
Posted by one woman cine on January 18, 2007, at 16:17:12
In reply to Re: pressure vs. coerce (PS), posted by one woman cine on January 18, 2007, at 16:15:27
I can't talk about this anymore on this thread, it's admin - OK?
Posted by Deneb on January 18, 2007, at 16:17:53
In reply to Re: pressure vs. coerce (PS) » Deneb, posted by one woman cine on January 18, 2007, at 16:12:12
> You are saying that she has never explicity made the staement "don't call"? right?
>
> You didn't answer my original question - you said you would call your pdoc the next day at the urging of other babblers, yet the next day, you said you decided not to.
>
> Please correct me if I am wrong. I may be confused.I'm pretty sure my pdoc doesn't want me to call her. She's never explicitly made the statement, but she has never ever told me it's OK to call her.
I decided not to call her the next day mostly because I didn't think she would want to hear from me. I have to learn to deal with things on my own. I can't call my pdoc everytime I want to hurt myself. I told her about it at our appointment. She didn't seem concerned.
Deneb*
Posted by Phillipa on January 18, 2007, at 17:34:50
In reply to Re: pressure vs. coerce (PS) » one woman cine, posted by Deneb on January 18, 2007, at 16:17:53
Deneb from my own observations you seem to be able to calm yourself down when you concentrate on something else. But please let your pdoc know about your distressing med symtoms. Love phillipa you know I care bunches about you.
Posted by Happyflower on January 18, 2007, at 17:50:19
In reply to Re: pressure vs. coerce, posted by Honore on January 18, 2007, at 12:15:03
Well my motive is not to gang up on anyone, my motive is for something to be done about the behavior no matter who is doing it. Plus I am not the only person on Babble that has had to deal with this, so it isn't just about me.
Is the behavior happening to me again? Yes it is , like last night in chat. I am not accusing anyone, just stating a fact, because you did ask.
If someone is truely sorry, and they know how a certain person feels about a behavior, why would they continue to contact this person when they specially did a "do not post" whether or not it was the under the old rules or not? All I want is the behavior to stop,and to be left alone, is that too much to ask? I feel I have taken all the steps I can. And now under the new rules, I was told by a deputy that I would have to state to Dr. Bob on why I want a Do Not Post, even though I posted it under the old rules. It sure seems like the responsiblity is on the victims shoulders if you ask me.
Posted by Happyflower on January 18, 2007, at 17:59:21
In reply to Re: pressure vs. coerce (PS) » Deneb, posted by Phillipa on January 18, 2007, at 17:34:50
This thread is going through so many things, and now my concern is that the reason will get forgotten like last time, because of all the other stuff.
I feel some of these other issues belong on other boards or at least have a different thread started.
I really wish we could stay on the topic of using sucide as a way to threaten another babbler. Thanks
Posted by sunnydays on January 18, 2007, at 18:20:55
In reply to Re: pressure vs. coerce (PS) » one woman cine, posted by Deneb on January 18, 2007, at 15:59:49
> > What do you mean by getting help?
> >
> > I, presonally, am not asking you change overnight. However, I think it is good practice to call your pdoc when you overdose. I think that means you are getting the help you need, when you need it.
>
> I *DID* try to call my pdoc when I overdosed. She CANNOT be reached after hours and I have a feeling she doesn't want me to call her. She thinks I can deal with it on my own through self talk or by writing about it on Babble.
>
> I'm getting help by seeing a T. My pdoc IS my T. I tell her *everything*.
>
> Deneb*
I really don't want to offend you Deneb, but if your pdoc thinks you can help yourself by writing about it when you overdose, you need to find a new pdoc. ODing is a medically serious thing, and should not be taken so lightly by a medical professional that they do not advise you to seek immediate medical help when you OD.sunnydays
Posted by Happyflower on January 18, 2007, at 20:06:48
In reply to Re: pressure vs. coerce (PS), posted by sunnydays on January 18, 2007, at 18:20:55
Happyflower is no more
Happyflower won't be left alone, even after asking nicely with a "please just leave me alone" in chat. No answer I asked several times in chat, nothing.
Dr. BOb says try to work it out ourselves, I tried, it didn't work. I have tried a request offically of "Do Not Post" but now with the new rules, it is void from what I understand.
Instead in chat I get oh, is happyflower talking to me? than that means the DNP post is not in effect. Was it EVER I ask?Sorry, but I have tried to protect myself and I have tried to have Babble protect me, so I can be happy on babble and talk and offer support, but I can't continue to be here anymore. I GIVE UP!!! All I wanted is to be left alone, I have even asked nicely, well that isn't going to happen is it.
My T has taught me not to put up and except things that hurt me, well I am hurt so I am leaving. It is too bad because I really liked alot of people here, but the price is too high to pay. I will not allow my self to feel harrassed, or pressured, or threatenend, and yes, I used the "I statements" But it doesn't matter, I am removing Babble from my favorites, I am really leaving now. I have had enough. I have had enough. I have had enough. Goodbye, and peace to everyone. (even Deneb)
Posted by fayeroe on January 18, 2007, at 20:27:26
In reply to Just never mind any of this, it doesn't matter, posted by Happyflower on January 18, 2007, at 20:06:48
i'm reall sorry that this turned out as it did. we tried..........pat
Posted by Honore on January 18, 2007, at 20:30:32
In reply to Just never mind any of this, it doesn't matter, posted by Happyflower on January 18, 2007, at 20:06:48
I hope you don't give up Happyflower.
Maybe your T told you to take care of yourself and not go places where you get hurt. That's one way to handle situations, and if Babble is hurting you, I wouldn't want that to continue.
But sometimes, when I feel hurt and upset about things here, and say that I'm not coming back-- which happens-- my T thinks I can stay connected and handle the situation, and find ways to protect myself, within this place. Even if something happens that hurts or jars me-- or I feel out of step of sympathy, or disrespected, or whatever it is.
Sometimes, I've learned that I can survive and be okay even if I feel those things-- I can contain the feelings, and move on-- and let them recede. It's amazing sometimes, how over time, things that seem overwhelming and somehow unacceptable are dwarfed and become insubstantial and hard even to reimagine fully.
The pressure you feel might stem from someone else-- but it also is internal pressure-- and that part could shift-- and if you stick around, or come back, you might realize that it's safer here than you think.
You make a great contribution, and your leaving would be a loss. And this place might have good things to offer you.
I hope you can work through the feelings and come back, or --even better, from my perspective--stay.
Honore
Posted by ElaineM on January 18, 2007, at 20:35:26
In reply to Re: pressure vs. coerce (PS), posted by sunnydays on January 18, 2007, at 18:20:55
Posted by 10derHeart on January 18, 2007, at 21:55:03
In reply to how do you get a link to post? (nm), posted by ElaineM on January 18, 2007, at 20:35:26
Hmm, not sure I understand your question, Elaine, but maybe I do....
If I want to put a link to another Babble post (or any web page, for that matter) in my post, I first go that that post (or web page) and open it. Its "address" (URL) will then appear in the bar at the top of your browser. Copy and paste (using 'right click', for PC users) this address into your post, and it will be 'clickable.'
If that's not what you meant, I'm sorry. I can try again, just let me know :-)
Posted by 10derHeart on January 18, 2007, at 22:15:18
In reply to Re: Just never mind any of this, it doesn't matter » Happyflower, posted by Honore on January 18, 2007, at 20:30:32
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 19, 2007, at 21:11:19
In reply to My thoughts exactly, Honore (nm) » Honore, posted by 10derHeart on January 18, 2007, at 22:15:18
okay, I didn't read the entire thread in full detail. my attentions wavers.
Here's what I think about this. Someone is communicating with me in a way that hurts me. I ask them not to communicate with me. Do Not Post/Do Not Babblemail etc. I make it known that I am ignoring them in Babble-chat, should the situation arise that we are both chatting at the same time.
That person is hurt that I ask them not to communicate with me. They don't understand it, and so they try to find more information (including initiating communication with me).
Whose hurt is more important? Who does Dr. Bob choose to protect?
Me? or that person?
strictly hypothetical. no names. no incidents. just this scenario.
*****************
next question:I have requested that someone does not communicate to me (DNP, DNbabblemail, DNchat.)
Now that person writes a post about me. Uses my name, or leaves it open for easy inference. That person writes that my actions have hurt him. That person writes that my actions have hurt him so badly that he is feeling like he wants to hurt himself. That person writes that when I don't communicate with him, he wants to die. That person writes that when I don't communicate with him, he feels misunderstood, and feels like slitting his wrists.
Who is protected? Me, or Him? and WHY?
*******
The situation escalates.
I write that I feel that he has put me in a situation that makes me feel extremely uncomfortable. I write that he has threatened suicide unless I respond to him in some way. I write that I am triggered by suicidal people, especially suicidal people who make me feel responsible for their pain.
He writes that he cannot imagine living in a world in which I will not communicate with him. He writes that he must be able to speak with me to understand how he has hurt me. He writes that if he cannot speak with me and find out how to feel better, that he will continue to feel suicidal.
Yet, I will not speak to him. I speak about him in vague terms.
He speaks about me in less than vague terms.
******
Who will get protection?
Is it an issue of favoritism? Who hurts more gets more protection?
-Ll
Posted by Phillipa on January 19, 2007, at 21:49:35
In reply to my thoughts **suicide triggers**, posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 19, 2007, at 21:11:19
Lurpsie I think you need to become a lawyer. Love Phillipa
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 20, 2007, at 2:19:15
In reply to my thoughts **suicide triggers**, posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 19, 2007, at 21:11:19
Awesome post LNoodle. I would like the result to be a block for the one who didn't leave you alone in any and all ways..That's how I feel...and should they not have then I would myself have like them to be blocked *each time* they did it if they did it again. I would think that any other way could show favoritism thats just what I feel and think on your post below...
> okay, I didn't read the entire thread in full detail. my attentions wavers.
>
> Here's what I think about this. Someone is communicating with me in a way that hurts me. I ask them not to communicate with me. Do Not Post/Do Not Babblemail etc. I make it known that I am ignoring them in Babble-chat, should the situation arise that we are both chatting at the same time.
>
> That person is hurt that I ask them not to communicate with me. They don't understand it, and so they try to find more information (including initiating communication with me).
>
> Whose hurt is more important? Who does Dr. Bob choose to protect?
>
> Me? or that person?
>
> strictly hypothetical. no names. no incidents. just this scenario.
>
> *****************
> next question:
>
> I have requested that someone does not communicate to me (DNP, DNbabblemail, DNchat.)
>
> Now that person writes a post about me. Uses my name, or leaves it open for easy inference. That person writes that my actions have hurt him. That person writes that my actions have hurt him so badly that he is feeling like he wants to hurt himself. That person writes that when I don't communicate with him, he wants to die. That person writes that when I don't communicate with him, he feels misunderstood, and feels like slitting his wrists.
>
> Who is protected? Me, or Him? and WHY?
>
> *******
>
> The situation escalates.
>
> I write that I feel that he has put me in a situation that makes me feel extremely uncomfortable. I write that he has threatened suicide unless I respond to him in some way. I write that I am triggered by suicidal people, especially suicidal people who make me feel responsible for their pain.
>
> He writes that he cannot imagine living in a world in which I will not communicate with him. He writes that he must be able to speak with me to understand how he has hurt me. He writes that if he cannot speak with me and find out how to feel better, that he will continue to feel suicidal.
>
> Yet, I will not speak to him. I speak about him in vague terms.
>
> He speaks about me in less than vague terms.
>
> ******
>
> Who will get protection?
>
> Is it an issue of favoritism? Who hurts more gets more protection?
>
> -Ll
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 20, 2007, at 2:30:32
In reply to Re: Not trying to upset you, posted by Happyflower on January 18, 2007, at 10:45:12
I do not think you have addressed this and if you did I am sorry I didn't see it. Would/could you have overuled the decison made while you were gone? I wonder how you would have decided has you seen the posts first? I wish HF had not been blocked while trying to protect herself. Thank you ahead
> This is why I think it would be best for Dr. Bob to address this as not to upset any deputies or posters.
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 20, 2007, at 9:25:29
In reply to my thoughts **suicide triggers**, posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 19, 2007, at 21:11:19
> fear. fear that threats will be carried out.
>
> its making babble a rather unpleasant place.
>
> NikkiT2> Could you or others in the mod team feel youre being held hostage because if you block them they may do something?
>
> Fallen4MyT> > is favoritism a concern?
>
> Yes
>
> GlydinFeeling afraid could certainly make it less pleasant here, I understand that. Including feeling afraid of us not keeping it safe. Either because our hands are tied or because we have favorites. Is that the feeling?
> Could these posters who post this kind of thing just be allowed to say..I feel LIKE...and then state they feel like doing things to themselves LEAVING OUT other posters, posters name and behavior or lack of it?
>
> Fallen4MyTSure, I think that's a good idea.
--
> I didn't know the exact rules for reporting about a problem
They were explained in that thread just the day before:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20061202/msgs/716550.html
> I see it also as a problem where a deputy does nothing or delays doing something
It's not ideal, that's true.
> I feel my complaint was ignored ... All my other means of reporting was ignored ... I felt ignored when reporting these behaviors ... I did report it and felt I was ignored ... the real reason for my posting was ignored once again.
I'm sorry you felt ignored, that can hurt. And it already happens enough in "real" life, no one needs it here, too. But that wasn't our intent.
> I have tried a request offically of "Do Not Post" but now with the new rules, it is void from what I understand.
>
> HappyflowerYou tried here? It's more complicated now, that's true. A request is a valid as a request. Did I say I wasn't going to enforce it?
--
> Someone is communicating with me in a way that hurts me. I ask them not to communicate with me.
>
> That person is hurt that I ask them not to communicate with me.If you feel harassed, then you can, as a last resort, ask them not to post to you anymore.
> I have requested that someone does not communicate to me
>
> Now that person writes a post about me. ... That person writes that my actions have hurt him.Posting about you isn't considered posting *to* you. But saying you had hurt him probably would be considered something that could lead you to feel accused.
> The situation escalates.
>
> I write that I feel that he has put me in a situation that makes me feel extremely uncomfortable.
>
> He writes that if he cannot speak with me and find out how to feel better, that he will continue to feel suicidal.Saying he had made you feel uncomfortable probably would be considered something that could lead him to feel accused. Saying you would make him feel suicidal probably would be considered something that could lead you to feel pressured.
> Who will get protection?
>
> Is it an issue of favoritism? Who hurts more gets more protection?
>
> -LlIt's not an issue of whose hurt is worse. How could that be determined, anyway? The issue is what kinds of posts are or aren't OK.
Bob
Posted by wishingstar on January 20, 2007, at 9:37:55
In reply to Re: feeling afraid and ignored, posted by Dr. Bob on January 20, 2007, at 9:25:29
>>Saying he had made you feel uncomfortable probably would be considered something that could lead him to feel accused. Saying you would make him feel suicidal probably would be considered something that could lead you to feel pressured.
>>I just want to say that I personally would feel very accused and put down if I were in the position of the second poster there (the one who you wrote would feel pressured). More so than if someone told me I made them feel uncomfortable even. If you "make" someone suicidal (in their opinion), isnt that the ultimate accusation? You did something SO bad and make me feel SO terrible (and uncomfortable) that I have to kill myself to deal with it. It's an accusation just like any other, the stakes are just higher (ie, the persons life).
I think the issue may be that some, like you Dr Bob and maybe for some others too, would not perceive it as an accusation and would be able to seperate the other posters issues and your personal responsibility in the situation. But I'd argue that many of us on here dont perceive "I think xxx political figure is terrible" as uncivil or offense. However, I understand that there may be people who, for whatever reason, are very sensitive to that and the rule is to protect them. Of course not every person is going to fall under every rule - not all the protections on this site would be nexessary for it to feel safe for every member. That's understandable. But I'd encourage you to take the feelings of those who WOULD feel accused into account, rather than saying "well to ME, it's not an accusation." Even if it doesnt make sense to you, some people feel badly about this.
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 20, 2007, at 12:25:32
In reply to Re: feeling afraid and ignored » Dr. Bob, posted by wishingstar on January 20, 2007, at 9:37:55
> > > X writes that she feels that Y has put her in a situation that makes her feel extremely uncomfortable.
> > >
> > > Y writes that if he cannot speak with X and find out how to feel better, that he will continue to feel suicidal.
> >
> > X saying Y had made her feel uncomfortable probably would be considered something that could lead Y to feel accused. Y saying X would make him feel suicidal probably would be considered something that could lead X to feel pressured.
>
> I just want to say that I personally would feel very accused and put down if I were in the position of the second poster there (the one who you wrote would feel pressured).If you were X, you mean? It's not OK for Y to pressure X, either. Like it's not OK for Y to accuse or put down X. People feeling pressured is a problem, too, not just people feeling accused.
Bob
Posted by ElaineM on January 20, 2007, at 15:21:45
In reply to Re: something better needs to be done-yes » Deneb, posted by Poet on January 18, 2007, at 12:28:54
>>>>>>Can someone point out to me the words that are provocative and distressing? I want the actual quotes. I do believe I was civil. Even if they really are provocative and distressing, it's not uncivil to be provocative or distressing.
> Deneb, I felt that in this post you weren't being provocative, but what you said was distressing. What you wrote isn't uncivil, but I perceived it as threatening. If the link doesn't work it's on the eating board.
>
> Poet
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/eating/20061124/msgs/706825.html
>
Ditto Poet's post. I won't comment on the provocativeness of communication patterns because there would be no way for anyone to "win" that debate, cause it's a personal opinion. But I will say that I percievied this as quite threatening as well.http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/eating/20061124/msgs/706857.html
"I still sort of want to die. If people don't start liking me again I think I want to die. If people don't believe that I will do it, I'll only have to prove them wrong."
[the "if" with the stated "consequence"]
thanks, El
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