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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 4 to 28 of 28. Go back in thread:
Posted by 64bowtie on December 23, 2006, at 0:59:18
In reply to I am rare perhaps in that I am for blocking, posted by Fallen4MyT on December 20, 2006, at 20:14:14
» Fallen »
I would prefer editorial oversight: disincluding offensive and uncivil postings, replacing them with a PBC warning... We don't have to read the offensive and the uncivil... We don't have to check his work for accuracy about his 'blocking' policies...
He can and has disincluded my posts, sometimes with unfortunate timing... I, however, sense his wisdom and integrity, always providing me the option to stay or leave... I elect to stay... I further elect to support Dr-Bob and his quest for more new stuff, being provided by many hands and many minds... And so freely, toooo.............
I get a sense of joy and anticipation knowing I'm going to somewhere special, designed and managed by Dr-Bob, everytime I show up here...
Thanks again, Dr-Bob...
Rod
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 23, 2006, at 15:59:39
In reply to Re: I am rare perhaps in that I am for blocking, posted by muffled on December 22, 2006, at 19:25:49
> I volunteer at a drop in center for street people. There are various issues, addiction, mental health etc. But these people ARE able for the most part to follow the rules of no dealing, fighting, using etc on the premises. If they are caught they are generally blocked for a day. If its pretty bad or an ongoing behavior, they will be blocked for a week. We recognize that the behaviors are not unexpected in the people we deal with. Mostly we just try to give them as much unconditional acceptance as is possible, and for that reason we block only if really necessaary. I have noted if we are too lenient, then behavior can start to go downhill in general, but with reprimand, it usu gets better very quickly. The point of all this is that the blocks ARE SHORT. We don't by any means wish to banish anyone from this place where they can connect, have coffe, mebbe a snack, and even a safe snooze. We are not about banishment , but about ACCEPTANCE. So blocks are definately a last resort. We will take the time to talk to them about their behaviors (if possible-often this is not possible at the time), or we can talk about it later. Treat them with dignity and respect.
Thanks for describing an alternative way of handling things. Certainly there are similarities between these two settings...
How do you decide whether to block for a day or a week? The limit is a week? So people can do something pretty bad every week if they want? Do it, be blocked, come back and do it again, be blocked again, etc.?
> The long, arbitrary blocks here on babble I think do not foster a sense of unconditional acceptance.
Well, it may not be politically correct, but acceptance here isn't unconditional. If acceptance = being able to post.
> There is not enough chance for apologies and discussions about the blocks.
There may not be at the time, but there is later. Like at your center?
> i don't get the feeling that the owner of the site is to be convinced to beleive any but his own views.
And the people at your center feel it's easy to change the policies there?
Bob
Posted by muffled on December 23, 2006, at 23:41:20
In reply to Re: drop in center, posted by Dr. Bob on December 23, 2006, at 15:59:39
> Thanks for describing an alternative way of handling things. Certainly there are similarities between these two settings...
>
> How do you decide whether to block for a day or a week? The limit is a week? So people can do something pretty bad every week if they want? Do it, be blocked, come back and do it again, be blocked again, etc.?**Yes, we do have people that do get in trouble more than others, but generally they are blocked cuz in the heat of their emotional moment (or their impairment by drugs or alcohol), they 'misbehave'. The fascinating thing is THEY DON'T keep repeating the behaviors. Hmmmm, these people, some of them anyway, are pretty messed, yet they CAN toe the line pretty much, cuz they want to be able to come there. There HAVE been instances of bans for long times, but that is for really 'out there' behavior. Yelling and fights are not unusual (they are also NOT the norm), but they are just asked to leave, or mebbe removed from the premises, and told not come back for the day. By next day they have generally 'cooled off' and are ready to behave.
See we EXPECT there will be a certain amount of disruption from time to time. We do not expect things to always be safe, That would be completely unrealistic given the people we are dealing with. Frequently, probably daily, or multi times a day, we catch 'stuff' early and are able to say, 'if you can't chill out, you gonna out for the rest of the day'(like a pbc), and you know what, it works ALOT of the time.....
You see, we treat our people like the human beings, with some sense of reason, that they are. Most of them are not stupid, if they were stupid they'd proly not be there, they'd be long gone.
>
> > The long, arbitrary blocks here on babble I think do not foster a sense of unconditional acceptance.
>
> Well, it may not be politically correct, but acceptance here isn't unconditional. If acceptance = being able to post.Yes, I agree with you. Acceptance is VERY conditional here, and that is what makes me so sad at times. You Bob, have this lovely idea of this site where people can be a community, where they can talk and learn. And I have noticed, when some 'events' have been allowed to run their course(perhaps cuz Bob was away?), that they turn out as WONDERFUL examples of how beautiful and accepting people here can be. We are NOT brainless Bob, we don't need an overprotective Daddy to be intervening everytime there is some slight problem. I have kids, they fight, I DON'T go intervening everytime, I let them sort it out on their own, and you know what? Many times they do. And they LEARN. And yes, sometimes I DO have to intervene, but not in such a way as to make them feel they bad kids. But that there is a problem here, that most likely can be solved, if we calm down and think on it.Sometimes we have to agree to disagree.
Mebbe if a person is OBVIOUSLY repeatedly causing trouble on a particular thread they could be asked not to post to that particular thread, or they will be given a (ONE week block).
>
> > There is not enough chance for apologies and discussions about the blocks.
>
> There may not be at the time, but there is later. Like at your center?**At the center it is usu the next day, or even later the same day, and oftentimes its a matter of not being able to speak to them cuz they too impaired and it would be a waste of time. Not weeks and weeks later, after that much time, its all old history, and all that is remmebered is the strong emots(eg. anger).
>
> > i don't get the feeling that the owner of the site is to be convinced to beleive any but his own views.
>
> And the people at your center feel it's easy to change the policies there?**I don't think there's alot of fuss about the policies. I think they are considered fair enough. Its always patently clear as to why a person has been given the boot.....
And the thing I have found, is that just taking the time to talk to people, and honestly point out the whys of it all, makes a huge difference.
I can see as there's a difficulty on internet as you can't see how a body is responding to what you are saying and so gown down the road that 'fits' that person...although I think there's lots of 'regulars' that you could proly have some idea as how to best approach things...So we don't just cut them off. We leave a door open to them. And they can send someone in to the center and someone will come out to talk to them if they calmed down. Don't mean they gonna get in that day, but at least they can feel they HAVE BEEN FAIRLY and HONESTLY HEARD.
This is very long.
Blame the seroquel...
Muffled
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 24, 2006, at 23:03:15
In reply to Re: drop in center » Dr. Bob, posted by muffled on December 23, 2006, at 23:41:20
> Hmmmm, these people, some of them anyway, are pretty messed, yet they CAN toe the line pretty much, cuz they want to be able to come there.
Thanks for explaining more. So one factor is how important the group is to the particular person...
> There HAVE been instances of bans for long times, but that is for really 'out there' behavior.
What counts as really out there?
> Frequently, probably daily, or multi times a day, we catch 'stuff' early and are able to say, 'if you can't chill out, you gonna out for the rest of the day'(like a pbc), and you know what, it works ALOT of the time.....
I think it works a lot of the time here, too. How often are people "blocked" at your center?
> We are NOT brainless Bob, we don't need an overprotective Daddy to be intervening everytime there is some slight problem.
>
> I have kids, they fight, I DON'T go intervening everytime, I let them sort it out on their own
>
> sometimes I DO have to intervene, but not in such a way as to make them feel they bad kids.Some people need more protection than others. And I don't intervene because I think anyone's brainless. How many kids do you have? Would it be different if you had a whole classroom? I think the size of the group is another factor. And I'd be happy to intervene in a different way if it would be less likely to make posters feel they're bad people.
There are similarities between this and a family, too, but I think people need to be careful about wishes or expectations that are more family-like and less drop in center-like...
> And the thing I have found, is that just taking the time to talk to people, and honestly point out the whys of it all, makes a huge difference.
> I can see as there's a difficulty on internet as you can't see how a body is responding to what you are saying and so gown down the road that 'fits' that person...although I think there's lots of 'regulars' that you could proly have some idea as how to best approach things...
>
> So we don't just cut them off. We leave a door open to them. And they can send someone in to the center and someone will come out to talk to them if they calmed down. Don't mean they gonna get in that day, but at least they can feel they HAVE BEEN FAIRLY and HONESTLY HEARD.Do they all in fact feel they've been fairly and honestly heard?
Unfortunately, I don't always have the time to talk to people myself. Maybe that's one way other posters, maybe especially regulars, could help?
Hmm, right now, when someone's blocked from posting, they're also blocked from babblechat. Would it be better to leave that door open?
Bob
Posted by Deneb on December 25, 2006, at 1:38:59
In reply to Re: drop in center, posted by Dr. Bob on December 24, 2006, at 23:03:15
> Hmm, right now, when someone's blocked from posting, they're also blocked from babblechat. Would it be better to leave that door open?
>
> BobOMG, YES! Yes Bob, that would help a LOT. Chat is different from the boards. I think anyone who wants to chat should be able to chat. It should be like before, in Yahoo Chat.
Seriously, if I were blocked, I would be soooooo much less likely to get suicidally upset if I could talk to my Babble friends. It would really help, because I could sent you stuff, but you don't answer me.
My pdoc told me PB is good for me. Babblers convinced me to tell my pdoc the truth about my latest OD scare.
I would be very upset if blocked and I have no one to turn to if I get super upset. Chat would save my life.
Just thinking of being blocked is upsetting me. I just want to die when I'm blocked. I think chat would help me feel less lonely.
:-( Thinking about this is making me cry. I think I have PTSD from being blocked.
Please let blocked people chat. Some people don't have any support IRL.
Deneb*
Posted by Dinah on December 25, 2006, at 13:06:14
In reply to Re: drop in center, posted by Dr. Bob on December 24, 2006, at 23:03:15
> Hmm, right now, when someone's blocked from posting, they're also blocked from babblechat. Would it be better to leave that door open?
>
> BobI think it would.
Under the old Yahoo system, blocked posters could still chat, so it would be more like going back to the way it was than creating a whole new policy.
If a blocked poster went on to be uncivil in Babblechat, the block could be extended to Chat at that time?
Posted by Dinah on December 29, 2006, at 14:23:09
In reply to Blocks and chat » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on December 25, 2006, at 13:06:14
this?
Oh well...
Posted by muffled on December 29, 2006, at 15:01:33
In reply to Re: drop in center, posted by Dr. Bob on December 24, 2006, at 23:03:15
when blocked.
But with the proviso that they can be banned from there if they piss enough people off.....
I trying to stay away right now.
Muffled
Posted by tofuemmy on December 29, 2006, at 17:58:44
In reply to Yes to babble chat, posted by muffled on December 29, 2006, at 15:01:33
Yes, allow chat with the option of ...if the deputies see problematic behavior (I dunno how to define that...disruptive-to-community sort of behavior) continuing in chat, they can ask Bob to block their access. em
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 31, 2006, at 2:22:15
In reply to Re: Yes to babble chat - agreed » muffled, posted by tofuemmy on December 29, 2006, at 17:58:44
> Yes, allow chat with the option of ...if the deputies see problematic behavior ... continuing in chat, they can ask Bob to block their access.
OK, it should be open to blocked posters now. But only room 1. And anyone can notify us of problematic behavior. To do that, copy and paste the whole chat "frame" (the area with the messages), it now includes a "fingerprint" like babblemail.
Bob
Posted by muffled on December 31, 2006, at 6:57:06
In reply to Re: Yes to babble chat, posted by Dr. Bob on December 31, 2006, at 2:22:15
Posted by Dinah on December 31, 2006, at 11:26:03
In reply to Re: Yes to babble chat, posted by Dr. Bob on December 31, 2006, at 2:22:15
Posted by madeline on December 31, 2006, at 11:39:44
In reply to Re: Yes to babble chat, posted by Dr. Bob on December 31, 2006, at 2:22:15
wow! Thanks Dr. bob. Thanks a lot!
Posted by 10derHeart on December 31, 2006, at 12:53:33
In reply to Re: Yes to babble chat, posted by Dr. Bob on December 31, 2006, at 2:22:15
Posted by muffled on January 10, 2007, at 13:40:40
I know I said I wasn't gonna post here, but this is a follow up to a question bob had awhile back and I was just able to follow up on.
So at my drop in center our 'blocking' policies are such that, if a person cuases undue disruption, they will be asked to leave for the day.
If its more violent, or intrusive(eg. yelling and they will not step down), ESP against people who work there, then they will get a week.
If they keep getting repeated 1 day exclusions, then they will be asked to leave for a week. If its ongoing, then goes to a month. Thats seems to be the cap.
Last week we had someone throw something at a staff member and they broke the plate glass window in the process. They have been banned for 1 mo. That person tried to come in this morning, but was made to leave or we would call cops. Which for obvo reasons is a last resort for us.
Now a person that has a 1 month block STILL has the opportunity to talk to the preacher that runs the place, and the preacher might choose to shorten the block in certain situations.
This mostly seems to work. The one prob is if we are too lenient, then probs do start to escalate, there is no question of that (been happening recently), and thats not good, cuz it can be truly unsafe there if its not under some control.
However that being said, the plan is to be more firm with the 1 day, 1 week bans, for OBVIOUS infractions. And to be more clear about the bans.
Often its just said 'get out of here and don't come back today'. When mebbe sometimes it could possibly be made more clear to all.
So we block for safety reasons.
We don't block cuz someones feelings have been hurt, or there has been a mild argument without major yelling. Often a staff will try and talk to them instead. We don't block someone when they walk out the door and yell 'f*ck you Joe' on the way out. They can come in later, so longs they don't go over the line of safety and extreemly obviosly try and cause trouble.
These people have many issues and problems for all different reasons. MOST of them are able to keep it safe.
The LAST possible thing we wish to do is make anyone feel more marginal and unacceptable than they already feel.
So thats my answer.
Muffled
Posted by 10derHeart on January 10, 2007, at 16:42:34
In reply to To Bob re:drop in center, posted by muffled on January 10, 2007, at 13:40:40
That was so well written, muffled, I feel like I totally am *there* and understand how stuff works.
Thanks so much for taking the time and energy to write it all out. I think it's important information for Dr. Bob - or anyone, really - to think about. Hope he has time to read this soon.
And thanks for caring about Babblers, too. You wouldn't have bothered if you didn't, and there can't be an excess of caring posters - not possible :-)
Posted by AuntieMel on January 12, 2007, at 11:25:02
In reply to Re: Yes to babble chat - agreed » muffled, posted by tofuemmy on December 29, 2006, at 17:58:44
"the option of ...if the deputies see problematic behavior"
I don't know about the others, but I think that we shouldn't be thought of as deputies while in chat. It's one time to just be ourselves and we sure don't want others to be thinking "sh - be good now, a dep just logged in"
Posted by muffled on January 12, 2007, at 11:33:10
In reply to Re:One thing » tofuemmy, posted by AuntieMel on January 12, 2007, at 11:25:02
> "the option of ...if the deputies see problematic behavior"
>
> I don't know about the others, but I think that we shouldn't be thought of as deputies while in chat. It's one time to just be ourselves and we sure don't want others to be thinking "sh - be good now, a dep just logged in"**I never worry bout deputies in chat.
But mebbe thats just me.
There was some discussion in chat one night that unless someone was horribly offended and reported it, then no action would be taken there.
I don't think its a matter of deputies reporting or dealing stuff, its up to individuals to report something if its a huge prob.
In my experience those deputies are right in the thick of it with the rest of us!!!! LOL!!!! Cuz they just babblers. They just helping Bob out w/some stuff is all.
Muffled
Posted by 10derHeart on January 12, 2007, at 16:21:24
In reply to Re:One thing » AuntieMel, posted by muffled on January 12, 2007, at 11:33:10
Posted by ClearSkies on January 12, 2007, at 19:19:21
In reply to Re:One thing » AuntieMel, posted by muffled on January 12, 2007, at 11:33:10
Posted by AuntieMel on January 13, 2007, at 12:11:58
In reply to Re:One thing » AuntieMel, posted by muffled on January 12, 2007, at 11:33:10
Posted by muffled on January 13, 2007, at 17:07:27
In reply to Re:many, many thanks (nm) » muffled, posted by AuntieMel on January 13, 2007, at 12:11:58
Posted by Dinah on January 13, 2007, at 19:14:22
In reply to Re:One thing » AuntieMel, posted by muffled on January 12, 2007, at 11:33:10
Thank you Muffled. :)
It certainly is true that I never feel like a deputy in chat unless someone specifically asks me something deputorial.
(Maybe that's one reason chat feels so fun.)
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 15, 2007, at 19:52:11
In reply to Re: Yes to babble chat, posted by Dr. Bob on December 31, 2006, at 2:22:15
> OK, it should be open to blocked posters now. But only room 1.
I've changed it from room 1 to room 2. Because room 1 is the default room and I think it makes more sense for posters to have to decide to chat with blocked posters than not to chat with them.
This doesn't mean, however, that I don't like blocked posters or think they're bad people.
Bob
Posted by muffled on January 21, 2007, at 23:04:57
In reply to Re:One thing » muffled, posted by Dinah on January 13, 2007, at 19:14:22
This is the end of the thread.
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