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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 32. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by zazenduckie on November 30, 2006, at 11:28:18
In reply to Are you sure ? » Quintal, posted by zazenduckie on November 29, 2006, at 13:19:47
Has your policy changed since Galkeepinon was announced to be dead by her "dad" on your board?
Or do you just allow them to just be announced still?
Couldn't someone just email you the obituary link or give you a phone number to call and verify before you publish a death announcement?
Don't you verify before you allow someone to call themselves doctor?
Why can't you verify before you call someone dead?
I'm glad she's still alive. Personally.
I don't think it's evil to hope someone's still alive.
It's just all so cloudy on the internet isn't it?
How do you ever know anyone is who they say they are?
No one has permission to announce my death on here.
If someone does it is a fraud. Don't publish it.
It's a violation of privacy.
Just for future reference.
OK block me if you want to.
PS The emperor has no clothes!
Posted by notfred on November 30, 2006, at 17:45:03
In reply to Do you verify deaths Dr Bob?, posted by zazenduckie on November 30, 2006, at 11:28:18
>I don't think it's evil to hope someone's still >alive.
How about speculating about possible causes of death, which are in line with your general agenda which is anti med and doctor, even before the body is cold and we have not one shred of hard evidence
as to the cause ?I find that cruel & cold hearted. It has nothing to do the safety on this board and only to do with your self centered negative view of life.
Posted by Dinah on November 30, 2006, at 18:12:18
In reply to Re: Do you verify deaths Dr Bob?, posted by notfred on November 30, 2006, at 17:45:03
> I find that cruel & cold hearted. It has nothing to do the safety on this board and only to do with your self centered negative view of life.Please don't jump to conclusions about others, or post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Dr. Bob is always free to override deputy decisions. His email is on the bottom of each page. Please feel free to email him if you believe this decision was made in error.
Dinah, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by zazenduckie on November 30, 2006, at 18:17:32
In reply to Re: Do you verify deaths Dr Bob?, posted by notfred on November 30, 2006, at 17:45:03
> >I don't think it's evil to hope someone's still >alive.
>
> How about speculating about possible causes of death, which are in line with your general agenda which is anti med and doctor, even before the body is cold and we have not one shred of hard evidence
> as to the cause ?I don't think that's evil either:) Thanks for asking.
This is a medical board isn't it? I think it is natural to speculate given the unusual drug regimens he posted on DR Bob's board.
We don't have a shred of "hard evidence" that he is dead. It would be simple enough to find out given the information at hand and I hope Dr Bob will as he has credibility among most members. A call to the Beaumont newspaper or coroner or even an email to them should be sufficient.
>
> I find that cruel & cold hearted. It has nothing to do the safety on this board and only to do with your self centered negative view of life.I don't find it cruel and coldhearted to hope that Michael is alive. A little unlikely perhaps. But I DO hope he is still alive.
I think the quality of advice and information have everything to do with safety on the board. And if Michael IS dead I think the best possible tribute to him would be to make the board safer.
I don't agree with your characterization of my view of life at all! Quite the contrary.
Have a nice day.
Posted by zazenduckie on November 30, 2006, at 18:19:26
In reply to Please be civil » notfred, posted by Dinah on November 30, 2006, at 18:12:18
Posted by gardenergirl on November 30, 2006, at 19:08:34
In reply to Re: Do you verify deaths Dr Bob? » notfred, posted by zazenduckie on November 30, 2006, at 18:17:32
> A call to the Beaumont newspaper or coroner or even an email to them should be sufficient.
Makes sense. Let us know what you find out.
gg
Posted by zazenduckie on November 30, 2006, at 19:21:56
In reply to Re: Do you verify deaths Dr Bob? » zazenduckie, posted by gardenergirl on November 30, 2006, at 19:08:34
> > A call to the Beaumont newspaper or coroner or even an email to them should be sufficient.
>
> Makes sense. Let us know what you find out.
>
> ggGG I'm just an anonymous poster too. What would that prove?
That's why I thought Dr Bob might as he is a known figure here.
Or perhaps someone from the newspaper might investigate and post directly to the board.
I suppose I might send them the information and ask them to investigate. But I don't want to report back here. Sorry.
Posted by Jost on November 30, 2006, at 19:29:06
In reply to Do you verify deaths Dr Bob?, posted by zazenduckie on November 30, 2006, at 11:28:18
Zazenduckie, Have you yourself thought of checking the facts about Ame Sans Vie?
If you've got concerns about the reliability of this information, you could check obituaries in regional papers, often available online.
I personally wasn't well acquainted with Ame Sans Vie, although I knew of his name. So I haven't seen many of online contributions, here or on other websites. However, anyone who has concerns about the situation can investigate.
I personally would prefer that we maintain a respectful silence rather than having what seem like veiled accusations about whatever happened. Other than to leave remembrances of Ame Sans Vie, and otherwise honor his memory, it might leave us and his family more at peace if there weren't harsh or questioning words said publicly about this.
Whatever ASV's drug regimen or struggles, I don't think that we here could have either done serious harm, or perhaps, more sadly, substantial good, other than in temporary, and momentary ways. I hope being here was good for him, but I don't think it either could have saved, or would have hurt him.
That's also true for the rest of us. We can learn from one another, but only within the ambit of what we, on our own, can put into or take out of whatever we invest ourselves in.
I'm sorry for his loss.
Jost
Posted by zazenduckie on November 30, 2006, at 19:41:40
In reply to Re: Do you verify deaths Dr Bob? » zazenduckie, posted by Jost on November 30, 2006, at 19:29:06
> Zazenduckie, Have you yourself thought of checking the facts about Ame Sans Vie?
Yes have you read through this thread? I expressed those thoughts.
>
> If you've got concerns about the reliability of this information, you could check obituaries in regional papers, often available online.Yes I mentioned that in my previous post.
>
> I personally wasn't well acquainted with Ame Sans Vie, although I knew of his name. So I haven't seen many of online contributions, here or on other websites. However, anyone who has concerns about the situation can investigate.
>
> I personally would prefer that we maintain a respectful silence rather than having what seem like veiled accusations about whatever happened.Please don't make statements that could cause others to feel accused or put down etc etc etc This doesn't mean I don't like you or don't think you are a good person.
> Other than to leave remembrances of Ame Sans Vie, and otherwise honor his memory, it might leave us and his family more at peace if there weren't harsh or questioning words said publicly about this.
I wouldn't think harsh words would be acceptable either. I believe questioning is good. I believe questioning honours him. The nature of Psychobabble is public. Naturally whether or not to read any particular words is entirely your choice. I am sure you will choose wisely.
>
> Whatever ASV's drug regimen or struggles, I don't think that we here could have either done serious harm, or perhaps, more sadly, substantial good, other than in temporary, and momentary ways. I hope being here was good for him, but I don't think it either could have saved, or would have hurt him.Who knows?
>
> That's also true for the rest of us. We can learn from one another, but only within the ambit of what we, on our own, can put into or take out of whatever we invest ourselves in.
>
> I'm sorry for his loss.So am I for whatever reasons he is lost to us.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Posted by notfred on November 30, 2006, at 19:56:00
In reply to Re: Do you verify deaths Dr Bob? » gardenergirl, posted by zazenduckie on November 30, 2006, at 19:21:56
> That's why I thought Dr Bob might as he is a
> known figure here.Unless he was Michaels doctor he has no more authority than any other public person to get access to this kind of info.
Posted by zazenduckie on November 30, 2006, at 20:00:29
In reply to Re: Do you verify deaths Dr Bob?, posted by notfred on November 30, 2006, at 19:56:00
Public records notfred.
I never suggested someone get his medical records or anything like that.
Just confirm that a death had occurred.
>
> > That's why I thought Dr Bob might as he is a
> > known figure here.
>
> Unless he was Michaels doctor he has no more authority than any other public person to get access to this kind of info.
Posted by notfred on November 30, 2006, at 20:10:49
In reply to Re: Do you verify deaths Dr Bob? » notfred, posted by zazenduckie on November 30, 2006, at 20:00:29
> Public records notfred.
>
> I never suggested someone get his medical records or anything like that.
>
> Just confirm that a death had occurred.
>So how would Dr Bob know his real name ? If you think you know his real name, then do it yourself.
The paper is on line. Dr Bob does not require us to tell him his real names.I think requiring such levels of board admins is unrealistic. This is a free service.
Posted by zazenduckie on November 30, 2006, at 20:23:04
In reply to Re: Do you verify deaths Dr Bob?, posted by notfred on November 30, 2006, at 20:10:49
>
> So how would Dr Bob know his real name ? If you think you know his real name, then do it yourself.
> The paper is on line.>.Dr Bob does not require us to tell him his real names.
>
> I think requiring such levels of board admins is unrealistic. This is a free service.
>I'm not requiring anything.
He verifies that people who call themselves doctor are doctors doesn't he? He has called and sent out the rescue squad when people posted suicide threats so it wouldn't be entirely out of character to do something offboard.Beaumont is a small city. You have a date of death,sex, first name and age. A last name wouldn't be necessary.
Posted by notfred on November 30, 2006, at 20:27:09
In reply to Re: Do you verify deaths Dr Bob? » notfred, posted by zazenduckie on November 30, 2006, at 20:23:04
He has called and sent out the rescue squad when people posted suicide threats so it wouldn't be entirely out of character to do something offboard.
Actually Dr Bob does not "out the rescue squad" as he would not know where to send it. He informs the ISP or mail provider.
Posted by zazenduckie on November 30, 2006, at 20:29:56
In reply to Re: Do you verify deaths Dr Bob? » notfred, posted by zazenduckie on November 30, 2006, at 20:23:04
Of course another alternative would be to forbid the posting of personal information about another poster without his permission-O wait that's all ready a rule!
If someone wanted to pass on personal information including death reports that could be done off board by babblemail or email.
Posted by notfred on November 30, 2006, at 20:43:46
In reply to Re: Do you verify deaths Dr Bob? » notfred, posted by zazenduckie on November 30, 2006, at 20:23:04
"Beaumont is a small city. You have a date of death,sex, first name and age. A last name wouldn't be necessary."
I looked at the local paper. You will need more info. Causes or death are not listed. I am called by a common first name, which is not part of my legal name.
Posted by Dinah on November 30, 2006, at 20:57:03
In reply to Re: Do you verify deaths Dr Bob?, posted by notfred on November 30, 2006, at 20:43:46
Well, for the record, it's in my instructions to contact a very dear friend if I die, and to have her inform Babble.
I hope everyone will respect her enough to believe her. There are at least some people here who know we're good friends.
Posted by zazenduckie on November 30, 2006, at 20:58:26
In reply to Re: Do you verify deaths Dr Bob?, posted by notfred on November 30, 2006, at 20:43:46
> "Beaumont is a small city. You have a date of death,sex, first name and age. A last name wouldn't be necessary."
>
> I looked at the local paper. You will need more info. Causes or death are not listed. I am called by a common first name, which is not part of my legal name.
>
>I was not suggesting Dr B find a cause of death. Just confirm that the information he chose to allow posted on his site is correct.
Did a 23 yo male die on October 25?
That's all. Just read through all of them since that date. Dates of deaths are usually given.
I don't think I really want to know.
I think a better alternative would be not posting personal information such as death reports as I mentioned in above post.
But you know how much influence I have with ole Bob. I think the status quo is safe.
Posted by Deneb on November 30, 2006, at 21:02:21
In reply to Re: Do you verify deaths Dr Bob?, posted by Dinah on November 30, 2006, at 20:57:03
> Well, for the record, it's in my instructions to contact a very dear friend if I die, and to have her inform Babble.
>
> I hope everyone will respect her enough to believe her. There are at least some people here who know we're good friends.I don't have anyone to inform Babble for me if I die. My parents don't know how to use a computer. I wonder if I could get my pdoc to inform Babble if I die? Do you think she would do that for me? I'm going to ask.
Deneb*
Posted by zazenduckie on November 30, 2006, at 21:05:00
In reply to Re: Do you verify deaths Dr Bob?, posted by notfred on November 30, 2006, at 20:43:46
I'm notfred either:)
Good night
Your friend
zazenduckie
Posted by notfred on November 30, 2006, at 21:13:30
In reply to Re: Do you verify deaths Dr Bob? » notfred, posted by zazenduckie on November 30, 2006, at 20:58:26
>
> Did a 23 yo male die on October 25?
>
> That's all. Just read through all of them since that date. Dates of deaths are usually given.
>Then go right ahead ! help yourself.
Posted by zazenduckie on December 5, 2006, at 10:13:22
In reply to Do you verify deaths Dr Bob?, posted by zazenduckie on November 30, 2006, at 11:28:18
Have you considered the possibility of suicide contagion in groups?
This is what is online concerning your personal perception of the events after another poster was reported to have died severa years ago. You know what Bob? I don't remember this group functioning as an effective "holding group" at all. Well actually how would you know whether anyone harmed herself or suicided? Jumping to conclusions weren't you? Maybe people didn't feel safe to report what they felt here due to your unusual policies or maybe they were blocked or maybe if they "suicided" nobody told you about it. There's still a post on usenet from those days from a member you chose to block during this event and she was in a great deal of distress. I don't think she felt "held" at all. She couldn't even get in touch with anyone here to find out where the funeral was. I feel your report was subjective &^&*%^% and not in keeping with the facts.
I hope you are not planning to continue to use professionally tragedies that occur on this board. Perhaps instead use that energy to reflect on the actual policies regarding publishing reports of others' deaths.
My opinion after observing your actions is that you care about the board, about making presentations about the board, and by extension about yourself.
By the way, probably coincidence but Pseudoname's last post was the same day Phillipa announced ASV's death.
............................................
Excerpt of the presentationSuicide and the Internet
Robert C Hsiung, Azy Barak, Denise Silber
1 University of Chicago, Chicago, USA, 2 Israel University of Haifa, Israel, 3 France Basil Strategies, FranceIn this workshop, we explore the topic of suicide and the Internet from three perspectives. First, we report a suicide in an online peer support group in the United States. Next, we present an online suicide prevention service in Israel. Finally, we address the ethical responsibilities of the administrators of sites like these. This is, to our knowledge, the first report of a suicide in an online group. The group was a peer support message board focused on mental health and managed by a mental health professional. The reactions of the group members to the suicide was as varied as might have been expected in "real life" and included the wish for more information as well as outright disbelief; feelings of sadness, helplessness, anger, and loss; physical symptoms; remembrances of the deceased member; self-reflection; and support for each other. There were questions about the boundary between "e-life" and real life. Should group members use her real name? Go to her funeral? The board appeared to function as an effective "holding environment." No group members reported injuring themselves -- or were reported to have suicided -- in response. Administrative issues included notifying the institutional review board involved (the group was at the time considered a research study), ensuring that additional resources were available for those coping with crisis, and establishing some sort of memorial. A concern regarding the memorial was suicide "contagion." In the end, it simply linked to selected posts: remembrances, songs and poems, posts written to her *after* her suicide, and posts of her own, including ones about a previous suicide attempt and on her philosophy of suicide. The memorial area may function as a virtual cemetery for the virtual community. Having the administrator establish it may in part have served to reassure surviving group members that he cared about the deceased member -- and, by extension, about them.
http://www.hon.ch/Mednet2003/abstracts/371287659.html
.........................................
This is a news story re a proposed study of online suicide contagion.
The world’s first generation to double-click its way through elementary school is using the Web to stay connected — even in death, where the popularity of MySpace has given rise to MyDeathSpace.com. The site archives profiles of deceased MySpace members.
Psychologists wonder if such electronic farewells and self-memorials provide negative role models for teens in despair, encouraging suicide. University of South Florida researchers hope to answer that question.
Web sites frequented by teens are, in some cases, rife with talk of death. They acknowledge suicides that might be discreetly omitted from mainstream publications, which typically take a cue from mental health workers who warn of a contagion effect.
“Sometimes people get concerned when a young person is highlighted in the newspaper,” said Dr. Ilene R. Berson, associate professor of the Florida Mental Health Institute at the University of South Florida.
“People say other kids are going to hear about this and they’re going to relate with that young person, particularly if everyone is saying all these wonderful things,” Berson said.
Berson and a USF faculty team are seeking funding to study whether social networking web sites create a suicide contagion effect.
Researchers would design a computer algorithm to see if MySpace members who kill themselves have been linked online to other suicidal members. They will also tap into MyDeathSpace, which as of Friday, registered 55 suicides and 457 other deaths.
http://www.sptimes.com/2006/08/27/news_pf/Tampabay/_Online_death_dialogu.shtml
Posted by gardenergirl on December 5, 2006, at 14:45:25
In reply to Online Suicide Contagion DR Bob**TRIGGERS**, posted by zazenduckie on December 5, 2006, at 10:13:22
Posted by Honore on December 5, 2006, at 15:17:09
In reply to Online Suicide Contagion DR Bob**TRIGGERS**, posted by zazenduckie on December 5, 2006, at 10:13:22
Zazenduckie wrote:
"I hope you are not planning to continue to use professionally tragedies that occur on this board. Perhaps instead use that energy to reflect on the actual policies regarding publishing reports of others' deaths."
I'm not sure, ZZD, how you believe Bob is using tragedies professionally.
I haven't noticed his using them, so I'm not sure what you're referring to.
I also noticed, just to make it clear to others here, that Mydeathspace lists deaths from all causes, most of them accidental, or homocide, from my brief visit to the site.
You bring up a very disturbing thought, at least ase disturbing as the very sad recent events. I wonder: do you believe that there exists a contagion of suicide or suicidality?
If you do, why do you? I know that there are various sorts of hypotheses about events that may related in time, and some element, to one another. But do you actually believe that there is a causal link? That's a much strong relationship between events than others one might posit.
Honore
Posted by zazenduckie on December 5, 2006, at 15:30:46
In reply to Re: Online Suicide Contagion DR Bob**TRIGGERS**, posted by Honore on December 5, 2006, at 15:17:09
> Zazenduckie wrote:
>
> "I hope you are not planning to continue to use professionally tragedies that occur on this board. Perhaps instead use that energy to reflect on the actual policies regarding publishing reports of others' deaths."
>
> I'm not sure, ZZD, how you believe Bob is using tragedies professionally.
>Honore I was referring to his using the tragedy of a poster's reported suicide as the subject for a professional presentation from which I quoted above. You'll notice his name as one of the authors.
> I haven't noticed his using them, so I'm not sure what you're referring to.
>
> I also noticed, just to make it clear to others here, that Mydeathspace lists deaths from all causes, most of them accidental, or homocide, from my brief visit to the site.That's true. I also wasn't suggesting any direct connection between that study and this site.
>
> You bring up a very disturbing thought, at least ase disturbing as the very sad recent events. I wonder: do you believe that there exists a contagion of suicide or suicidality?I don't know.
>
> If you do, why do you? I know that there are various sorts of hypotheses about events that may related in time, and some element, to one another. But do you actually believe that there is a causal link? That's a much strong relationship between events than others one might posit.
>I don't know really....I certainly couldn't prove it. I have read about clusters of suicides in high schools for instance or in treatment centers for people with emotional problems or in military groups. I don't know how you could really prove something like that.
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