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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 38 to 62 of 70. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on September 14, 2006, at 18:06:15
In reply to Re: some merging of the two worlds » Dinah, posted by llrrrpp on September 14, 2006, at 17:48:24
Yeah, I feel the same way.
But...
It's not really up to me. If I had my way, things wouldn't change, and Dr. Bob would be active all over the boards forever, only maybe also talk to us sometimes because I enjoy that too. But it's not up to me, and if he's going to spend less time here, he is. We either have to adjust or move elsewhere.
So how best to adjust?
Can you tell I've just come back from therapy? My therapist cut all the shoulds from under me, and left me with only the is's.
Posted by Phillipa on September 14, 2006, at 18:49:27
In reply to Re: some merging of the two worlds » Dinah, posted by llrrrpp on September 14, 2006, at 17:48:24
Now that you mention it I haven't seen a lot of redirects lately on the boards. Sometimes I suggest to a person a different board where they may get more responses. This is definitely not a criticism of the deputies. They do a great job. Love Phillipa
Posted by llrrrpp on September 14, 2006, at 20:58:09
In reply to Re: some merging of the two worlds » llrrrpp, posted by Dinah on September 14, 2006, at 18:06:15
no, it's not up to anyone but Dr. Bob. who owns and operates this site. I'm not sure why he's asking us. It's his life. His time.
I am not much of an adjuster. Not where my mental health might be at stake.
Maybe I've gotten all I need out of Babble. I've met some lovely wonderful souls, and learned a lot about my messed up neurotransmitters (((((NEffy)))) and (((((DopAie))))).
I'd rather not be on this ship if it's sailing without a captain. I'll get off at the next port-of-call, but I'd like some advance warning so that I can pack my trunks.
-ll
Dinah- I've got strong "should"-ers. I didn't realize your T taught you how to use "should"-er blades. I need to learn that art.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 14, 2006, at 21:46:22
In reply to Re: some merging of the two worlds » alexandra_k, posted by Jost on September 14, 2006, at 12:37:46
Hey Jost :-)
> In the following post (a reaction to various excerpts from Bob's prior answers to various posts) you may not realize that other people-- myself anyway--don't know what you mean in many instance.s
Ah. I'm happy to clarify, just ask.
> Maybe you're only talking to Bob?Not at all. I'm always happy to get responses :-)
>and also separated your concerns, so that they were clearer and more integrated and less confused with one another.Sometimes I run things together because I don't have the time to spend editing and revising. Sometimes Babble posts... Can take me half a day to compose. Time constraints etc. I'm happy to clarify anything that you might find ambiguous.
> But your point about "you know what I"m getting at..." confuses the issue, because now I'm thinking-- Alexandra_k thinks Bob deals with A_k's ideas by quibbling with the words she uses, rather than addressing the content of the ideas.What I meant by what I said was that there are often miscommunications. Not just with me, with posters in general. The way you put it was better. I was just a little concerned that Bob may have been overly literal in his interpretation of 'sick of'...
Hope this helps.
Posted by Jost on September 14, 2006, at 22:23:27
In reply to Re: some merging of the two worlds » Jost, posted by alexandra_k on September 14, 2006, at 21:46:22
Thanks, alex_k (if I may be so familiar?).
I will ask more questions, because I'm interested in your view of this.
Thanks for the clarification about the 'sick of" part, because it did distract me.Now I'll have to go back and reread. (First, I have to finish my reading assignment of this article on madness and the internet.....)
I know what you mean about spending time composing posts, though. I do that too.
Jost :)
Posted by alexandra_k on September 14, 2006, at 23:56:56
In reply to Re: some merging of the two worlds » alexandra_k, posted by Jost on September 14, 2006, at 22:23:27
> Thanks, alex_k (if I may be so familiar?).
sure :-)
you can call me alex if you like.
> Thanks for the clarification about the 'sick of" part, because it did distract me.yeah, i understand it wasn't the best choice of phrasing. you put it much better.
> Now I'll have to go back and reread. (First, I have to finish my reading assignment of this article on madness and the internet.....)lol. just if you are interested.
> I know what you mean about spending time composing posts, though. I do that too.yeah.
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 15, 2006, at 11:21:17
In reply to Re: some merging of the two worlds, posted by Dinah on September 14, 2006, at 14:35:56
> the deputies ... work hard without a cent and I feel this is not fair to them.
>
> PhillipaI'm not sure I'd call it unfair to work hard without a cent, that's what volunteering means, OTOH, I've thought about trying to make some cents for them, too...
> > I'm not sick of anyone.
>
> how about moderating in general?
>
> you seem to be doing all you can to foster a 'deputy' 'regular poster' divide.
>
> alexandra_kI'm not sick of moderating in general, either. And I understand that might be a genuine concern -- and isn't necessarily just a transference response. :-)
I'm not trying to foster a deputy vs regular poster divide, but IMO there is in fact a difference, and I don't want to deny that, either.
> > there may be less splitting
>
> Or there'll be the same splitting, but more people on one side of the split. People who came here for support and to be part of something. Not to be separate.
>
> I suggest a replacement benevolent monarch with similar ideas of civility as your own.
>
> Sustainability is the real key, Dr. Bob. Sustainability.
>
> DinahI know it hurts to be attacked, especially when trying to help. I'm sorry that happens, and I appreciate your dedication to this community.
Hmm, maybe the block "multiplier" should be increased for incivility towards deputies?
> Middle way? Dr. Bob, do you want a buddhist monk to be the new adminsitrator? And if there's problems with sustainablity, we deserve to know. It's important to me. I wouldn't mind volunteering to make this project more sustainable, but I woouldn't want to become involved in a way that would compromise my status as post-er and crazy person first and foremost. I don't know how such a thing is possible, or what is needed. Dr. Bob, you shouldn't be shy to ask for help if/when you need it.
>
> llrrrpp> The posters did not want to "tattle" on somebody
>
> That's why it's important to have an administrator who is seen as having a different status as a poster. As a poster, I often do not want to suggest that another poster is out of line. I often retreat from conflict. I have remorse about turning in a fellow poster, because they come here in the spirit of giving or receiving support. ... there is a terrible danger that something really hurtful may go on for a while and involve many people before it's calmed down and dealt with by someone with authority.
>
> llrrrpp> I think Dr. Bob's plan is to rely more on poster reporting, which would mean tattling to some people
>
> DinahA Buddhist monk might make a good benevolent monarch. I'd be interested if any of you know one who's available, but that's not the direction I have in mind right now.
Sustainability is a real issue. For one thing, I'm not going to be around forever. I'd like it if Babble were more self-sufficient, so help along those lines would be great. Volunteers are a key ingredient, but as we've been discussing, being a deputy does entail compromise. Those who aren't deputies can help by supporting and helping out those who are. And of course it keeps the community strong just to keep supporting other posters, too.
One way to help out me and the deputies is in fact to notify us of potential problems. Which I realize may feel like tattling, and could in fact be seen as tattling, and as counter our primary mission of support. So some posters won't feel comfortable doing that. I don't think "status" necessarily makes it easier, the deputies don't relish conflict, either. But I think llrrrpp's example was a good one. We weren't aware of the situation, and other Babblers didn't feel comfortable notifying us, but she felt it was important and took the initiative, and a deputy handled it.
Bob
Posted by llrrrpp on September 15, 2006, at 12:27:39
In reply to Re: some merging of the two worlds, posted by Dr. Bob on September 15, 2006, at 11:21:17
Okay Dr. Bob,
I guess I am kind of dumb. Rather than think about "tattling" as anti-supportive of a possibly un-civil babble-poster, I should think of "notification" as being supportive of the volunteer deputies.This re-framing helps me to justify being part of the community.
However, it would be much appreciated if the rules and such were spelled out clear as day on a page somewhere. I feel insecure to report something (even if it's a private babble-mail to a deputy) if I don't know what the latest rules are.
I know it's one of the big projects you've been procrastinating, Dr. Bob. It can't be as much fun as tinkering with Babble-Chat. But having clear rules (where they can be made clear) is essential to your mission.
Simple things like
Don't post more than three times in a row, unless you are responding to other's posts.
That particular rule is the subject of so much uncertainty that I don't even know what the latest update is.
Thanks again, and thanks for hearing me. I think you did a good job of addressing my concerns.
-ll
Posted by MidnightBlue on September 15, 2006, at 13:22:58
In reply to Re: some merging of the two worlds, posted by Dr. Bob on September 15, 2006, at 11:21:17
Dr. Bob, you said:
> One way to help out me and the deputies is in fact to notify us of potential problems. Which I realize may feel like tattling, and could in fact be seen as tattling, and as counter our primary mission of support. So some posters won't feel comfortable doing that.BUT if you "tattle" on someone three times and you or the other deputies don't consider what that person did is a problem, then YOU are in trouble! Seems like a no win thing to me.
MidnightBlue (who would probably slink away into a dark corner rather than "tattle" and be wrong )
Posted by Toph on September 15, 2006, at 16:05:22
In reply to Re: some merging of the two worlds, posted by Dr. Bob on September 13, 2006, at 10:44:25
> Regarding the community as a whole, if there's more sharing of power, there may be less splitting (seeing administrators as bad and posters as good)...
>As a way of avoiding splitting as you defined it, why not indeed "split" the administrators from their posting personas? The administrators could have different deputy names from their posting names. Perhaps this seems disingenuous and might result in people figuring out the deputy from their posting syles, but if successful in their disguise, deputies might retain their sense of freedom as a poster unsplit and unresented.
Just a thought.Toph
Posted by llrrrpp on September 15, 2006, at 16:12:03
In reply to Re: some merging of the two worlds » Dr. Bob, posted by Toph on September 15, 2006, at 16:05:22
> > Regarding the community as a whole, if there's more sharing of power, there may be less splitting (seeing administrators as bad and posters as good)...
> >
>
> As a way of avoiding splitting as you defined it, why not indeed "split" the administrators from their posting personas? The administrators could have different deputy names from their posting names. Perhaps this seems disingenuous and might result in people figuring out the deputy from their posting syles, but if successful in their disguise, deputies might retain their sense of freedom as a poster unsplit and unresented.
> Just a thought.
>
> TophHi Toph,
i like this idea. it's good. (that was my serious comment)does this mean that we will no longer have any !Snort!-ing deputies? (that was my silly comment)
-ll
Posted by Toph on September 15, 2006, at 16:24:03
In reply to Re: some merging of the two worlds » Dr. Bob, posted by Toph on September 15, 2006, at 16:05:22
Posted by zazenducky on September 15, 2006, at 16:43:05
In reply to Further, all deputies could use the handle, 'Anon' (nm), posted by Toph on September 15, 2006, at 16:24:03
That's a good idea. And use standard language instead of the little variations to different posters.
I think it would be nice to have volunteer peacemakers people could talk to if they didn't agree with the sanction rather than make it all so punitive and us against them. Maybe they could also mediate with the deputies if necessary, but their primary function would be off the board support and education for the banned person.
Posted by zazenducky on September 15, 2006, at 17:00:03
In reply to Re: some merging of the two worlds, posted by Dr. Bob on September 15, 2006, at 11:21:17
>
> >
> Sustainability is a real issue. For one thing, I'm not going to be around forever.Bob do you have a date in mind? Are you ill?
Have you made any arrangements for the technical aspects of keeping this going?
Have you thought of hiring an administrator? How many hours per week would it take for someone to replace you if the deputies kept voluteering?
Can you sell the board to a drug co or hospital or something? Would you really be willing to give up control?
Can you get a grant?
Are you willing to give up any power at all to keep it going? Would you be willing for the deputies to rewrite the rules or reorganize the blocking system? Would you trust them to implement change without consulting you? Would you trust then to select the next group of deputies and train them without your input?
Bob this does not mean I don't like you or think you are a good person but have you considered obtaining professional help to help you through this time of transition and relinquishment?
Your friend
zazenducky
I'd like it if Babble were more self-sufficient, so help along those lines would be great. Volunteers are a key ingredient, but as we've been discussing, being a deputy does entail compromise. Those who aren't deputies can help by supporting and helping out those who are. And of course it keeps the community strong just to keep supporting other posters, too.
>
> One way to help out me and the deputies is in fact to notify us of potential problems. Which I realize may feel like tattling, and could in fact be seen as tattling, and as counter our primary mission of support. So some posters won't feel comfortable doing that. I don't think "status" necessarily makes it easier, the deputies don't relish conflict, either. But I think llrrrpp's example was a good one. We weren't aware of the situation, and other Babblers didn't feel comfortable notifying us, but she felt it was important and took the initiative, and a deputy handled it.
>
> Bob
Posted by gardenergirl on September 15, 2006, at 17:22:56
In reply to Re: some merging of the two worlds » Toph, posted by llrrrpp on September 15, 2006, at 16:12:03
>
> does this mean that we will no longer have any !Snort!-ing deputies? (that was my silly comment)Just say no! Please don't snort the deputies. ;)
gg
Posted by Dinah on September 15, 2006, at 17:37:54
In reply to Re: some merging of the two worlds, posted by Dr. Bob on September 15, 2006, at 11:21:17
FWIW, I don't want cents, or added penalties for being uncivil to deputies. The same ones will be quite fine, thank you. :)
But, if we're having wishes, I would like you to be around forever.
Thank you.
Posted by gardenergirl on September 15, 2006, at 17:44:06
In reply to Further, all deputies could use the handle, 'Anon' (nm), posted by Toph on September 15, 2006, at 16:24:03
Hi Toph,
I think that's a good idea. Another is having a separate log in/"handle" for when we're posting in our role as deputies versus as community members. I also like using standard language, although I've heard from some who think of it as impersonal and a bit cold.It's hard to find any kind of happy medium, it seems. (Perhaps I should try looking at a psychic convention?) ;)
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on September 15, 2006, at 18:03:01
In reply to Re: some merging of the two worlds » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on September 15, 2006, at 17:37:54
> FWIW, I don't want cents, or added penalties for being uncivil to deputies. The same ones will be quite fine, thank you. :)
Good point. Ditto.
gg
>
Posted by Dinah on September 15, 2006, at 18:04:18
In reply to Re: Further, all deputies could use the handle, 'A » Toph, posted by gardenergirl on September 15, 2006, at 17:44:06
I rarely care for the standard language alone. Granted I use it at top and bottom, but somehow near middle it seems only polite to acknowledge that someone might be new to Babble, and not yet familiar with Babble rules, or that someone might be in the grip of a strong emotion, and that I recognize it, or whatever else may be in play.
I'm not sure I could give cookie cutter PBC's. Maybe blocks, because then there's been prior warning. But to me, PBC's aren't necessarily punitive in nature and the standard language doesn't necessarily reflect that. They're more reminders in heated moments, education opportunities for new or non-intuitive rules or for new posters, and in general more of a tap on the shoulder than a swat on the rear.
Thus, I don't think it would take a genius to see past anonymous handles.
Nor do I think, even if it was completely anonymous, that it would necessarily mean less anger at deputies, or less cumulative anger at any one deputy.
And, I suppose, I have some desire to feel that I am responsible for my own posts, even as deputy, and that I should claim ownership of them and take any righteous consequences for them.
Posted by AuntieMel on September 15, 2006, at 18:14:19
In reply to Re: Further, all deputies could use the handle, 'A, posted by Dinah on September 15, 2006, at 18:04:18
But maybe separate ID's.
It would be a gentle reminder to people when you are a fellow poster and when the badge is on.
As for cents or added measures "tritto"
Posted by Dinah on September 15, 2006, at 18:23:47
In reply to Re: Further, all deputies could use the handle, 'A, posted by AuntieMel on September 15, 2006, at 18:14:19
Yeah, I wouldn't mind having a Deputy Dinah posting name.
Except that it would bug the heck out of me to have to keep changing my name and password boxes. I'd always be afraid I'd forget and someone would get a naughty reply by Deputy Dinah instead of just Dinah.
Posted by henrietta on September 15, 2006, at 19:28:55
In reply to Re: some merging of the two worlds » Dr. Bob, posted by Toph on September 15, 2006, at 16:05:22
This proves it. I really am insane. I think there are too many disguises, too many half-truths, too many hidden agendas in the world already. Too many lies. I see I am insanely misguided.
Posted by gardenergirl on September 15, 2006, at 19:30:33
In reply to Re: some merging of the two worlds » Toph, posted by henrietta on September 15, 2006, at 19:28:55
Posted by henrietta on September 15, 2006, at 19:34:15
In reply to Re: Further, all deputies could use the handle, 'A, posted by Dinah on September 15, 2006, at 18:23:47
Another proof that I'm insane: I don't see deputies being banged up any more than anybody else around here, and they have recourse that others don't have. Yet another proof: the idea of PAYING poster /deputies ( if that's indeed what bob was suggesting)hasn't raised a single squeek? I'm certifiable!!!! I belong in a padded cell.
Posted by zazenducky on September 15, 2006, at 19:35:37
In reply to Re: some merging of the two worlds » Toph, posted by henrietta on September 15, 2006, at 19:28:55
it's not you
why do you think they call it PSYCHO babble?
oh yeah it's a bit of whimsy on bob's part
This proves it. I really am insane. I think there are too many disguises, too many half-truths, too many hidden agendas in the world already. Too many lies. I see I am insanely misguided.
>
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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