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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 11 to 35 of 40. Go back in thread:
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 20, 2006, at 16:07:54
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob Re: My D.N.P to Lar » ClearSkies, posted by Gabbi~G on June 20, 2006, at 15:11:43
> The hurt I felt at seeing how we were described and then being referred to as trivial is real.
And the sacred thread that had been created there was *so* about something else. So *very* about something else.
Lar
Posted by Gabbi~G on June 20, 2006, at 16:46:53
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob Re: My D.N.P to Lar » Gabbi~G, posted by ClearSkies on June 20, 2006, at 10:26:59
How you would feel if you saw a post I'd written about you and your husband, saying something like
"Yeah, well Clearskies said she met her husband at a bar " (Not that that's a bad thing, for this example it just isn't correct)And then you asked me to be discreet because you really didn't like talking about the relationship and said that's not how you met, you met through friends.
What if I said to you that your concerns were trivial details and that that *is* so how you met your husband, it must be, because I think remember you saying it.
Wouldn't you feel frustrated?
Does that help you to understand where I'm coming from a little better?
>
> > However, I was expecting to be seen as *the b*tch* so I'm not surprised.
> >
>
> It's interesting that you had this expectation.
>
>
Posted by gardenergirl on June 20, 2006, at 17:23:44
In reply to I'm wondering » ClearSkies, posted by Gabbi~G on June 20, 2006, at 16:46:53
> How you would feel if you saw a post I'd written about you and your husband, saying something like
> "Yeah, well Clearskies said she met her husband at a bar " (Not that that's a bad thing, for this example it just isn't correct)I resemble that remark. ;)
A college bar, no less.
gg
Posted by Gabbi~G on June 20, 2006, at 17:49:24
In reply to This is not all that related or even useful, but » Gabbi~G, posted by gardenergirl on June 20, 2006, at 17:23:44
*whew*
I'm glad I said it wasn't a bad thing : )(((GG)))
Posted by Dinah on June 20, 2006, at 17:50:23
In reply to Re: Please be civil question » Dinah, posted by zazenduck on June 20, 2006, at 15:17:24
I'm sorry, but I'm afraid I don't understand the point you're trying to make. I don't mean to be dense.
Are you saying that you don't think Gabbi should get a PBC because she apologized?
That's certainly a point you are free to bring up with Dr. Bob and he is free to reverse my decision.
I always inform Dr. Bob of any administration action I take and my thinking behind it. And of course I always concede that he might think differently and reverse or adjust my decision.
I fail to concede any favoritism at work, and I can't quite understand why you would assert it.
Posted by zazenduck on June 20, 2006, at 18:34:10
In reply to Re: Please be civil question » zazenduck, posted by Dinah on June 20, 2006, at 17:50:23
I believe you should be blocked for 3 weeks for saying New Orleans is a h*llh*le. Possibly 9 weeks for making an ****** on a such a hurting bunch of people. I don't think you saying you are sorry on admin makes any difference.
I think GG should be banned for 1 week for making sexist jokes on social no just say "I'm sorry" and not even get a PBC.
I think aunty mel should be blocked for 3 weeks for offering to "punish" another poster and exchange incivilities off line. I think she should be blocked for 9 more weeks for joking about child abuse. Because guess what? Children ARE people...triple blocks apply.
Does that make my point clearer?
>
> Are you saying that you don't think Gabbi should get a PBC because she apologized?No I'm saying the deputies and everyone else should be treated equally. If Gabbi is sanctioned after apologizing so should you and the other deputies.
>
>
> I fail to concede any favoritism at work, and I can't quite understand why you would assert it.I hope my examples helped you understand. Just because you fail to concede it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
I know this post will make no difference but I hope you will at least understand what I am saying. And I hope I won't be blocked for being direct. I know you never will be. <grin>
My point is actually much less about wanting ANYBODY blocked than it is that the length of blocks is causing people to be hurt and that just because someone isn't blocked doesn't meant they are any more in compliance than those who are. People are being blocked for months at a time who haven't done anything as serious as others who didn't even get a block or a PBC. It's totally unfair.
I'm sure you may not understand and probably don't agree and never will <grin>
And I think Lou Pilder was just as civil as any one posting today.
Goodbye.
Posted by Dinah on June 20, 2006, at 18:35:21
In reply to Re: Please be civil question » Dinah, posted by zazenduck on June 20, 2006, at 18:34:10
Posted by Dinah on June 20, 2006, at 18:45:02
In reply to Re: Please be civil question » Dinah, posted by zazenduck on June 20, 2006, at 18:34:10
> I know this post will make no difference but I hope you will at least understand what I am saying. And I hope I won't be blocked for being direct. I know you never will be. <grin>
Do you mean I won't be blocked for being direct? Or that I won't be direct.
I'm always direct.
I recognize that I have always tried too hard to be friends with you. I apologize for any discomfort that might have caused you. I shall cease and desist immediately.
Posted by Tamar on June 20, 2006, at 19:00:58
In reply to Re: Please be civil question » Dinah, posted by zazenduck on June 20, 2006, at 18:34:10
Hey Zazenduck,
It sounds to me as if you’re frustrated and angry. And if that’s true, I’m sorry you’re hurting.
But I also felt upset when I read your post to Dinah. If I’d had those words directed towards me I’d feel very hurt; and so I imagine Dinah feeling hurt, and that upsets me a lot because I love Dinah.
I agree that child abuse isn’t funny. I was triggered by some of the posts which featured remarks about punishment of children. It’s a subject I find deeply shameful and distressing. I can’t quite understand how people can talk about it in any tone other than utmost seriousness.
But I think Larry was right about trying to help people understand why it triggers us. I think it’s the best way forward. Ultimately, I think it’s the best way to get what we want.
Meanwhile, if you’re feeling angry and triggered, how about coming over to Social or Psychology and starting a thread. You don’t have to say anything deeply personal, but sometimes if you open up just a crack people will step in and offer support and comfort.
Tamar
Posted by Dinah on June 20, 2006, at 19:14:57
In reply to Zazenduck » zazenduck, posted by Tamar on June 20, 2006, at 19:00:58
> that upsets me a lot because I love Dinah.
Tamar, you have no idea how much that means to me coming from you. I can't tell you how much I respect you.
But it's ok. Really.
Posted by zazenduck on June 20, 2006, at 19:28:45
In reply to Zazenduck » zazenduck, posted by Tamar on June 20, 2006, at 19:00:58
> Hey Zazenduck,
>
> And if that’s true, I’m sorry you’re hurting.Thanks Tamar. you have no idea how much that means. But I AM NOT resposible for Dinah's feelings. I was addressing inequity on the board.
>
> I agree that child abuse isn’t funny. I was triggered by some of the posts which featured remarks about punishment of children. It’s a subject I find deeply shameful and distressing. I can’t quite understand how people can talk about it in any tone other than utmost seriousness.
>Thanks for agreeing. I am so glad someone is willing to hear.
> But I think Larry was right about trying to help people understand why it triggers us. I think it’s the best way forward. Ultimately, I think it’s the best way to get what we want.
It's not about me being triggered. It's about standing up for truth and the truth is that abusing children isn't funny. PERIOD It's not about my feelings. It's about standing up for people who are being hurt. And making jokes about children being abused desensitizes people to the real thing. It's about not standing by while people are bullied verbally or otherwise.
>
> Meanwhile, if you’re feeling angry and triggered, how about coming over to Social or Psychology and starting a thread. You don’t have to say anything deeply personal, but sometimes if you open up just a crack people will step in and offer support and comfort.I would love some support and comfort. I feel like I've been kicked in the stomache by the jackboots of inequity.
>>
>
Posted by Tamar on June 20, 2006, at 19:50:57
In reply to Re: Zazenduck » Tamar, posted by zazenduck on June 20, 2006, at 19:28:45
> Thanks Tamar. you have no idea how much that means. But I AM NOT resposible for Dinah's feelings. I was addressing inequity on the board.
Well, I know you’re not responsible for my feelings either! But I hope you don’t mind if I mention that I feel hurt when I imagine my friends hurting.
> Thanks for agreeing. I am so glad someone is willing to hear.
I think it’s something people can feel rather uncomfortable about, and maybe more people agree but haven’t said anything because it elicits very strong feelings. I can’t believe it’s just the two of us…
> It's not about me being triggered. It's about standing up for truth and the truth is that abusing children isn't funny. PERIOD It's not about my feelings. It's about standing up for people who are being hurt. And making jokes about children being abused desensitizes people to the real thing. It's about not standing by while people are bullied verbally or otherwise.
I wholeheartedly agree with you. It’s just not funny. I suppose I’m not hugely surprised that people sometimes joke about it, though. I spent a couple of years working with nurses and midwives, and they often made jokes about things that weren’t at all funny. It seemed to be a kind of safety valve; a way to release powerful but complicated feelings without being overwhelmed. I guess the stress of the hospital environment made it difficult for them to find other ways of coping. I do the same thing sometimes when I talk about some of my own traumatic experiences. However, I simply can’t find the subject of punishment of children funny. It’s too close to stuff I haven’t dealt with yet.
I think you are absolutely right about not standing by while people are bullied. I was just reading a book about trauma by Judith Herman, and she says that it’s morally impossible for a bystander to remain neutral; s/he has to take sides. It’s easier to take the side of the perpetrator, because that only involves keeping quiet and doing nothing. It’s much more difficult to take the side of the victim, because that involves sharing the burden of the victim’s pain. I think she’s right. And I think you’ve chosen to share the burden of the victim’s pain, which is entirely to your credit.
> I would love some support and comfort. I feel like I've been kicked in the stomache by the jackboots of inequity.
Sending you a virtual hot water bottle… I hope it eases the bruising…
Tamar
Posted by Tamar on June 20, 2006, at 19:51:27
In reply to Tamar, posted by Dinah on June 20, 2006, at 19:14:57
Posted by zazenduck on June 20, 2006, at 20:16:56
In reply to Re: Zazenduck » zazenduck, posted by Tamar on June 20, 2006, at 19:50:57
>
> Well, I know you’re not responsible for my feelings either! But I hope you don’t mind if I mention that I feel hurt when I imagine my friends hurting.What did you imagine would hurt her? that I think she should be blocked for saying something about new orleans that might have deeply hurt people who live there (or would like to live there but are still displaced)? She said she didn't understand my point so I gave concrete examples.I qualified it later by saying it wasn't about wanting people blocked it was about not wanting other people blocked for months at time for the same or lesser offences.
Dinah's post hurt me. Her actions hurt me. But I don't want anyone blocked including her. I just want the same treatment for everyone.
>
> > Thanks for agreeing. I am so glad someone is willing to hear.
>
> I think it’s something people can feel rather uncomfortable about, and maybe more people agree but haven’t said anything because it elicits very strong feelings. I can’t believe it’s just the two of us…I guess that's why I kept posting. I couldn't believe no one else would say anything. I don't understand how a deputy who supposedly knows the rules continued to post in that way. And I don't understand why neither of the other deputies chose to block or PBC those posts.
>
> > It's not about me being triggered. It's about standing up for truth and the truth is that abusing children isn't funny. PERIOD It's not about my feelings. It's about standing up for people who are being hurt. And making jokes about children being abused desensitizes people to the real thing. It's about not standing by while people are bullied verbally or otherwise.
>
> I wholeheartedly agree with you. It’s just not funny. I suppose I’m not hugely surprised that people sometimes joke about it, though. I spent a couple of years working with nurses and midwives, and they often made jokes about things that weren’t at all funny. It seemed to be a kind of safety valve; a way to release powerful but complicated feelings without being overwhelmed. I guess the stress of the hospital environment made it difficult for them to find other ways of coping. I do the same thing sometimes when I talk about some of my own traumatic experiences. However, I simply can’t find the subject of punishment of children funny. It’s too close to stuff I haven’t dealt with yet.
>
> I think you are absolutely right about not standing by while people are bullied. I was just reading a book about trauma by Judith Herman, and she says that it’s morally impossible for a bystander to remain neutral; s/he has to take sides. It’s easier to take the side of the perpetrator, because that only involves keeping quiet and doing nothing. It’s much more difficult to take the side of the victim, because that involves sharing the burden of the victim’s pain. I think she’s right. And I think you’ve chosen to share the burden of the victim’s pain, which is entirely to your credit.Thank you so so much for understanding. I appreciate your words so much.
>
> > I would love some support and comfort. I feel like I've been kicked in the stomache by the jackboots of inequity.
>
> Sending you a virtual hot water bottle… I hope it eases the bruising…thanks' i'm taking it and signing off. I hope you have a good night. you've certainly done your good deed for the night taking all this time to talk to me. it means a lot to me.
>
>
>
Posted by Dinah on June 20, 2006, at 20:34:44
In reply to Re: Zazenduck » Tamar, posted by zazenduck on June 20, 2006, at 20:16:56
> What did you imagine would hurt her? that I think she should be blocked for saying something about new orleans that might have deeply hurt people who live there (or would like to live there but are still displaced)? She said she didn't understand my point so I gave concrete examples.I qualified it later by saying it wasn't about wanting people blocked it was about not wanting other people blocked for months at time for the same or lesser offences.
>
> Dinah's post hurt me. Her actions hurt me. But I don't want anyone blocked including her. I just want the same treatment for everyone.I'm sorry if my post hurt you. If you've read many of my posts, you know how much I love New Orleans, and how much I hate to see New Orleans hurting. Which is what I meant by my comment. It *is* H*llish driving through any number of parts of town right now, and seeing the devastation and feeling the pain. It's h*llish seeing the violence return, and in some cases knowing that the violence is *caused* by the pain and stress and heat. That man shot the other day didn't deserve to die. He was ill. It's h*llish to read that the National Guard is being called in just to stop things like the five teenagers shot over the weekend. It's h*llish seeing the places I love boarded up. It's h*llish seeing New Orleans institutions being sold or folding up. It's h*llish knowing that you can't call for a plumber or electrician without thinking of the people living in their trailers who don't have a home to live in and how can I be so decadent as to call someone in to fix a broken faucet?
Perhaps I should withdraw my apology. Because it is h*llish here, and I shouldn't apologize for saying so. I feel bad about wanting to get away from the pain, for deserting a city in need. But I *do* want to get away from the pain. I'm tired of crying at the headlines, much less the articles, in the Times Picayune.
So yes. I withdraw my apology.
If Dr. Bob sees fit, he may PBC me.
And I'm sorry for any pain I caused you. In what I said about New Orleans, in whatever actions I've committed. And most of all for the things I think you legitimately have a right to be angry with me about.
Which includes trying too hard again.
Posted by henrietta on June 20, 2006, at 21:04:17
In reply to Re: Zazenduck » Tamar, posted by zazenduck on June 20, 2006, at 19:28:45
Love and support to you.
Thanks for fighting the good fight, and seeing what most don't. Bullying, favoritism, inconsistency, abuse of power are all major triggers for me. Thank you for speaking your mind, thank you for standing up.
But I need to ask you a question you once asked me: What are you doing here? Let's take hands and exit stage left. Detach from assada. Or is it adinava? I love how you didn't take the bait.
I think you're lovely. You deserve better.
Love, hen
Posted by henrietta on June 20, 2006, at 21:31:28
In reply to Re: Zazenduckzazenduck, posted by henrietta on June 20, 2006, at 21:04:17
I should define my terms, since there are different interpretations. I'm using the words as defined in the glossary of Mindfulness with Breathing, by Buddhadasa Bhikkhu.
vossagga, hen
Posted by ClearSkies on June 20, 2006, at 21:58:14
In reply to I'm wondering » ClearSkies, posted by Gabbi~G on June 20, 2006, at 16:46:53
Posted by Dinah on June 21, 2006, at 0:32:19
In reply to Re: Zazenduck, posted by Dinah on June 20, 2006, at 20:34:44
Now that you thanked me for the apology, I feel bad about retracting it. How about I say that I'm sorry I put it the way I did and sorry I didn't explain better what I was thinking? I can say that absolutely truthfully.
Sorry to be so scrupulous. It's the OCD.
Posted by zazenduck on June 21, 2006, at 6:47:37
In reply to Re: Zazenduckzazenduck, posted by henrietta on June 20, 2006, at 21:04:17
Stage left it is....
off we go then
love and much admiration and gratitude to you always
> Love and support to you.
> Thanks for fighting the good fight, and seeing what most don't. Bullying, favoritism, inconsistency, abuse of power are all major triggers for me. Thank you for speaking your mind, thank you for standing up.
> But I need to ask you a question you once asked me: What are you doing here? Let's take hands and exit stage left. Detach from assada. Or is it adinava? I love how you didn't take the bait.
> I think you're lovely. You deserve better.
> Love, hen
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 21, 2006, at 8:55:39
In reply to Re: Zazenduck » Tamar, posted by zazenduck on June 20, 2006, at 20:16:56
> Dinah's post hurt me. Her actions hurt me.
Keeping in mind that the idea here is not to post anything that could lead others to feel accused, could you please rephrase that?
But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please first see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceYou might want to consider asking another poster to preview your reply before you submit it.
Follow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 21, 2006, at 8:56:11
In reply to Re: Zazenduckzazenduck, posted by henrietta on June 20, 2006, at 21:04:17
> Thanks for ... seeing what most don't.
Keeping in mind that the idea here is not to post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, could you please rephrase that?
But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please first see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceYou might want to consider asking another poster to preview your reply before you submit it.
Follow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 21, 2006, at 8:56:42
In reply to Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on June 21, 2006, at 0:32:19
> I'm saying the deputies and everyone else should be treated equally.
>
> zazenduckOne of the challenges of having deputies is the potential for dynamics involving acceptance, rejection, competition, envy, etc. -- and divisions between posters. I hope we can find some way to work together to keep this community going.
--
> Now that you thanked me for the apology, I feel bad about retracting it. How about I say that I'm sorry I put it the way I did and sorry I didn't explain better what I was thinking?
>
> DinahThat's great, thanks again.
Bob
Posted by zazenduck on June 21, 2006, at 10:12:02
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » zazenduck, posted by Dr. Bob on June 21, 2006, at 8:55:39
> > Dinah's post hurt me. Her actions hurt me.
>
> Keeping in mind that the idea here is not to post anything that could lead others to feel accused, could you please rephrase that?I was distressed and disappointed.
>
> But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person.
>
> If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please first see the FAQ:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforce
>
> You might want to consider asking another poster to preview your reply before you submit it.
>
> Follow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
Posted by zazenduck on June 21, 2006, at 10:19:31
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » henrietta, posted by Dr. Bob on June 21, 2006, at 8:56:11
I feel surprised and affirmed.
I feel embarassed to return to the stage so soon but I shall try again..........STAGE LEFT
> Thanks for ... seeing what most don't.
>
> Keeping in mind that the idea here is not to post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, could you please rephrase that?
>
> But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person.
>
> If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please first see the FAQ:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforce
>
> You might want to consider asking another poster to preview your reply before you submit it.
>
> Follow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
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