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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 158 to 182 of 275. Go back in thread:
Posted by agent858 on June 5, 2006, at 1:17:38
In reply to I have been asked to come here and apologise, posted by NikkiT2 on June 5, 2006, at 0:56:50
hey.
i'm sorry i said what i did because it hurt you and i'm sorry i hurt you. i didn't mean to hurt you.
are you sorry you hurt me?
i think you are.
i could be wrong... but you said you *knew* it didn't hurt me... which seems to entail that you thought it wouldn't hurt me. so i figure that you didn't mean to hurt me.
> I still believe that my points stand though.
okay. i think there is a difference between stating a preference for an ideology / institution not be around and stating a preference for a person to not be around.
but maybe we can agree to disagree on that?
(i can't believe i'm saying that)
;-)
i'm sorry to hear about babblemails...
i want you to know i had no part in that.
that is something that happens sometimes on babble. people turn on alleged / perceived persecutors. that doesn't mean you are persecuting anyone. just means people perceive it to be the case.
and people turn.
they don't see it as turning.
they see it as supporting the person that the alleged persecutor is harassing...dinah?
drama triangle...
i have been known to do that.
lashed out at dinah before 'cause i thought she was trying to hurt me.
lash out at bob sometimes 'cause i think he is trying to hurt me too.
lashed out at you 'cause i thought you were trying to hurt me.then the trouble is that it can become a cycle.
dinah or bob or you could then lash out at me for hurting you
and then there is a cycle.
:-(
:-(
:-(supporting someone is one thing...
lashing out at someone in the name of 'support' is another.
i'm sorry nikki.
i'm sorry that you are hurting.
i'm sorry i lashed out at you.this doesn't excuse it...
but it goes some way toward making it understandable...
my mother used to lock me in my room and tell me i wasn't fit for human company. she would tell me that she wished i wasn't around.
blocks hurt me so much because they take me back.
and saying you wish i wasn't around...
(even if you don't mean it)
but the words on the page
the words on the page
is the most hurtful thing anyone could ever say to me.
and saying it to me when i'm blocked...
even to prove a point...
and i lost it and i'm sorry.and i'm not trying with the 'pity me' stuff...
it isn't about that.
i'm trying to explain so it seems a bit more comprehensible.
it doesn't undo what i said.
but i hope it goes some way towards making it understandable.like how you told us that you are in a lot of pain at the moment. i don't think a lot of people read the health board. i go there fairly rarely. i didn't know you were in a lot of pain.
but knowing that you are makes it more understandable that you could be feeling a lot irratible... knowing that you didn't get many responses makes it understandable that you could be feeling like people don't care.
but yeah sometimes you have to make a bit of noise so people notice you are hurting. fact. learning to ask for help / support appropriately is hard... it is.
i'm sorry you are hurting.
i'm sorry about the babblemails.
Posted by Dinah on June 5, 2006, at 2:45:25
In reply to I have been asked to come here and apologise, posted by NikkiT2 on June 5, 2006, at 0:56:50
> It has just reminded me what a basically nasty place PB can be. And that has NOTHING to do with the rules, but the people.
Nikki, you aren't pure evil, and I'm sorry you got babblemails that upset you. If they aren't in keeping with the civility guidelines, please report them to Dr. Bob.
I'm also sorry that I haven't been more support to you about the pain. I'm wrapped around my own pain so much right now that I'm not as supportive as I should be. I was looking the other day for a post of yours about work that I had meant to respond to, but couldn't find it.
That being said, as Dr. Bob says, two wrongs don't make a right. By all means, report any Babblemails that don't meet civility guidelines. By all means vent off board, and I am certainly available to you to do that, but please don't be sarcastic, jump to conclusions about other posters, or post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil
Dr. Bob is always free to override deputy decisions, and also as you know to upgrade them. His email is on the bottom of each page. Please feel free to email him if you believe this decision was made in error.
Dinah, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by Dinah on June 5, 2006, at 2:48:47
In reply to blocked » agent858, posted by agent858 on June 4, 2006, at 23:30:03
I'm sorry, but I really am going to have to block you. As you know, you aren't supposed to be posting while blocked.
However, I think you posted some lovely things and I appreciate your trying to promote harmony here. I really do admire you for that.
I'll let Dr. Bob set the length.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Dinah, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by Dinah on June 5, 2006, at 2:52:35
In reply to blocked » agent858, posted by agent858 on June 4, 2006, at 23:30:03
Please keep in touch. I may be gone a bit, because it looks like we're moving after all and I'm planning to behave very badly, but I'll respond, I promise.
And while there might be other poster names out there unblocked, I'm asking you as a friend not to use them. I don't think it's in anyone's best interests, including yours, to see your blocks go up exponentially.
With respect,
Dinah, acting solely on my own behalf
Posted by Dinah on June 5, 2006, at 2:53:21
In reply to Well.....babblers......, posted by muffled on June 4, 2006, at 22:54:08
Posted by Dinah on June 5, 2006, at 2:58:23
In reply to Sorry GG it's probably uncivil » NikkiT2, posted by Damos on June 4, 2006, at 21:32:31
> Yet you chose to add nothing but insult and injury. To be deliberately uncivil, cruel and needlessly unkind to someone with no real right/way of reply.Damos, I understand your strong friendship with Alexandra, and I think loyalty is a wonderful trait, but I'm going to have to ask you to please be civil. Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
I know it's a challenge to follow the civility guidelines sometimes, and if you need a civility buddy to vent with at those times, I'm sure many Babblers will step up to the plate, and you can Babblemail me as well.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Dr. Bob is always free to override deputy decisions. His email is on the bottom of each page. Please feel free to email him if you believe this decision was made in error.
Dinah, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by Dinah on June 5, 2006, at 3:02:16
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob? 3rd request. Re: blocked for 4 weeks » Jakeman, posted by teejay on June 4, 2006, at 17:57:59
> How about the latest religion issue? I was actually brought up as a STRICT christian but now find the whole concept of religion to be highly offensive. I believe its arguably the biggest contributor to death and suffering in the world today.
I think given Estella's block it is reasonable to assume that this statement would be against the civility guidelines of this site, which I must ask you to please follow.
The civility guidelines also apply on the Admin board.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Dr. Bob is always free to override or upgrade deputy decisions. His email is on the bottom of each page. Please feel free to email him if you believe this decision was made in error.
Dinah, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by Dinah on June 5, 2006, at 3:13:38
In reply to Please be civil » teejay, posted by Dinah on June 5, 2006, at 3:02:16
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20060525/msgs/652651.html
Yes, Dr. Bob has been away from the boards for a while, and things tend to escalate, even with deputies present. But until he comes back, I'm going to have to ask everyone to review their posts for compliance with the civility guidelines.
I understand emotions are running high, but please remember that two wrongs don't make a right, that if you perceive something to be uncivil, you can report it by email or Babblemail to the deputies or Dr. Bob, answer civilly yourself, or answer with compassion and kindness above and beyond the call of duty.
And if deputies don't flag something that you think should be flagged, please have patience and wait for Dr. Bob. Sometimes deputies might individually or collectively read things differently than Dr. Bob might. It is undoable. Dr. Bob has the final authority.
The FAQ has several suggestions on what to do when you feel angry.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Dinah, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by Damos on June 5, 2006, at 4:58:56
In reply to I have been asked to come here and apologise, posted by NikkiT2 on June 5, 2006, at 0:56:50
Nikki,
I've apologised to you privately and I do so again here. Nothing can excuse or change what was said and it was poorly done and unkind and I am sorry.
It upsets me greatly that you have received nasty and bullying babblemails. I'm sorry you've been subject to that as I know how hard you have tried to help some babblers.
Damos
Posted by Damos on June 5, 2006, at 5:05:30
In reply to Please be civil » Damos, posted by Dinah on June 5, 2006, at 2:58:23
Thanks Dinah,
My behaviour was/is unacceptable to me regardless of contributing factors, motivation or intent. If I cannot trust myself to post I think it's best for all if I just stay away.
Thank you for all you do for the boards. I have so much respect and admiration for you.
Best wishes to all,
Damos
Posted by Sobriquet Style on June 5, 2006, at 7:21:37
In reply to Re: Please be civil » Dinah, posted by Damos on June 5, 2006, at 5:05:30
Sometimes, its visa - versa.
~
Posted by Dinah on June 5, 2006, at 8:03:50
In reply to Re: Please be civil » Dinah, posted by Damos on June 5, 2006, at 5:05:30
It's mutual of course. And everyone has their moments of regret. Take a break if you need to, but I hope to see you when you feel ready.
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 5, 2006, at 8:21:53
In reply to I have been asked to come here and apologise, posted by NikkiT2 on June 5, 2006, at 0:56:50
> But I am sorry.
> I stand by what I said. Yes, some feel I said it wrongly, and I did do wrong to use Estella's name where I should have used my own as an example, but her name was forefront in my mind at the time.
There are innocent explanations for almost anything we might do. Naive innocent explanations. But everyone seems willing to believe the most noxious and malevolent explanation. The first thing one should do is ask, though, don't you think?
> I still believe that my points stand though. And nasty, bullying babble mails will NOT change that. It has just reminded me what a basically nasty place PB can be. And that has NOTHING to do with the rules, but the people.
When I was experiencing the biggest psychological crisis of my entire life, just a few short weeks ago, here, on this board, you would not believe the emails I received. They would shock you. More than mere schadenfreude, I was shocked by other elements in these purportedly helpful messages. Shocked.
I'm sorry our paths have come parallel. In the physical pain that envelopes us, perhaps it limits cognition as well. Senselessness? Sensory burnout?
I'm not seeking excuses.... but to have you go through so many similar confluences, leads me to wonder if there isn't a very human tragic process. If that's the case, Nikki, I can also promise you that it will end. I got through it, Nik. I am truly looking at it from the other side now.
> Oh, and yes.. I am pure evil aren't I? And NO ONEs suicide will ever be on my head, as it is a decision one person makes and no one else.Oh, Nik. Oh dear. So helpful, these people. So very helpful and supportive.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 5, 2006, at 8:34:41
In reply to Re: blocked » agent858, posted by Dinah on June 5, 2006, at 2:48:47
> However, I think you posted some lovely things and I appreciate your trying to promote harmony here. I really do admire you for that.
The status quo does precisely this, every time it is employed. It prevents the very thing that would have solved everything in a simpler gentler fashion.
It prevents civility.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 5, 2006, at 8:37:43
In reply to Re: Please be civil » Dinah, posted by Damos on June 5, 2006, at 5:05:30
> Thanks Dinah,
>
> My behaviour was/is unacceptable to me regardless of contributing factors, motivation or intent. If I cannot trust myself to post I think it's best for all if I just stay away.
>
> Thank you for all you do for the boards. I have so much respect and admiration for you.
>
> Best wishes to all,
> DamosDamos, forgive yourself, please. My world is far better when I can see you in it, than the one where I know you are there, but I can't find you in the crowd.
Hugs,
Lar
Posted by NikkiT2 on June 5, 2006, at 8:45:41
In reply to Re: I have been asked to come here and apologise » NikkiT2, posted by Damos on June 5, 2006, at 4:58:56
Damos,
There is nothing to apologise for.
I read your babble mail before coming to PB, and as such, I decided that your message would probably upset me more than I could handle right now (ie, rushing to get ready for work at stupid o'clock, or sitting in my office at work).. So, I've not actually read it.
I will, this evening, if you would like me to. Or I won't, if you would prefer that.
The call is yours
Nikki
Posted by zazenduck on June 5, 2006, at 9:42:49
In reply to blocked » agent858, posted by agent858 on June 4, 2006, at 23:30:03
I am surprised that Bob would say such a thing. I still find the civility rules confusing.
I believe certain narcissistic traits would hamper the effective moderation of this site..
a lack of empathy,
the inability to see others as separate individuals
the need for absolute control/domination of the relationship
the need for constant admiration
inability to admit mistakes or flaws
a sense of entitlement...the expectation that others should do what he wants because he wants it
I wonder if conflict with administrative needs might be at the root of the unsuitability rather than some personality disorder within the poster.......
hmmmmmm......
well just musing.
>
> i know you say this site isn't suited to everyone...
> and people might have a hard time fitting in
> this place might not be the right place
> but then you go on to say especially people who are
> borderline
> narcissistic
> etc
> sounds like a slur to those who won't accept your ****** state to me.
>
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 5, 2006, at 9:48:50
In reply to please be kind to each other, posted by agent858 on June 4, 2006, at 23:11:32
That's what I see here.
In the face of Bob's silence.
I guess the only question is, will she be martyred for it.
I hope not.
Lar
Posted by zazenduck on June 5, 2006, at 9:59:53
In reply to Re: Civil disobedience » agent858, posted by Larry Hoover on June 5, 2006, at 9:48:50
Posted by Dinah on June 5, 2006, at 11:29:42
In reply to Re: blocked » Dinah, posted by Larry Hoover on June 5, 2006, at 8:34:41
I don't see the not posting while blocked rule as preventing civility. It seems perfectly common sense to me.
Posted by Dinah on June 5, 2006, at 11:33:23
In reply to Re: Civil disobedience » agent858, posted by Larry Hoover on June 5, 2006, at 9:48:50
Or at least not on Admin.
Therefore his silence means nothing other than that he hasn't been on board.
You can be angry with him for not being on board. But it would be pretty hard to respond to something he hasn't yet read.
Posted by Dinah on June 5, 2006, at 11:36:49
In reply to BOB said that?????????????, posted by zazenduck on June 5, 2006, at 9:42:49
I don't recall Dr. Bob saying that. If anyone has links?
Please remember that the civility guidelines apply to Dr. Bob as well, although he is admittedly more lenient in applying them that way.
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 5, 2006, at 11:45:49
In reply to Posting while blocked » Larry Hoover, posted by Dinah on June 5, 2006, at 11:29:42
> I don't see the not posting while blocked rule as preventing civility. It seems perfectly common sense to me.
I'm not making an absolute statement. Sometimes just a little talking out solves the misunderstandings. An innocent naive comment might appear to be something else. No mens rea. No animus nocendi. No criminal intent.By not being able to provide insight into the "accused"'s state of mind, the block prevents a simple civil discussion that might clear everything up.
There are other cases, of course, where animus nocendi is blatant.
Lar
Posted by henrietta on June 5, 2006, at 15:23:35
In reply to Re: Posting while blocked » Dinah, posted by Larry Hoover on June 5, 2006, at 11:45:49
I wonder if a deputy could explain why Nikki wasn't given a PBC. I really am puzzled. This is a sincere question. It seems that the rules
would require either a PBC or a please rephrase, or something. I think it would have defused the situation considerably and helped to foster a sense of consistency and fairness. Can someone explain whatever it is I'm not understanding?I guess the appropriate time may have passed on this one, but if something similar happens again....???
Thank you.
Posted by Dinah on June 5, 2006, at 17:09:43
In reply to Question, posted by henrietta on June 5, 2006, at 15:23:35
Nikki did get a PBC. And the reason I didn't give one earlier is because I thought she was mistaken in her appraisal of her post. To me the post was filled with things she obviously chose because she *didn't* think the world would be better off without them, and were therefore truly hypotheticals. She did not appear to be phrasing things as hypotheticals so she could get away with saying something.
I did put in a request to Dr. Bob for clarification, in case I was wrong. And when he comes to the board, I assume I'll receive guidance for the future.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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