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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 35. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 18, 2006, at 22:39:22
Hi, everyone,
I just wanted to let you know, after discussion with the deputies, I've made a small change to the civility section of the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Instead of "joke about injury or death", it's now "treat injury or death lightly". I think that makes more sense.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by crazy teresa on January 18, 2006, at 23:56:34
In reply to change to FAQ, posted by Dr. Bob on January 18, 2006, at 22:39:22
Posted by sleepygirl on January 19, 2006, at 1:08:06
In reply to So, no dead parrot jokes? (nm) » Dr. Bob, posted by crazy teresa on January 18, 2006, at 23:56:34
Posted by crazy teresa on January 19, 2006, at 7:02:41
In reply to why would you want to hurt Polly? (nm) » crazy teresa, posted by sleepygirl on January 19, 2006, at 1:08:06
along with other Monty Python absurities! ;~} Like "Bring out your dead!" in the Holy Grail...
Posted by Deneb on January 19, 2006, at 9:18:16
In reply to change to FAQ, posted by Dr. Bob on January 18, 2006, at 22:39:22
> Hi, everyone,
>
> I just wanted to let you know, after discussion with the deputies, I've made a small change to the civility section of the FAQ:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
>
> Instead of "joke about injury or death", it's now "treat injury or death lightly". I think that makes more sense.
>
> Thanks,
>
> BobThis is all because of me, isn't it? :-(
Talking about me behind my back? Talking about how to "deal" with me?
I get the message. :-(
Change or be banished forever...
Deneb
Posted by Deneb on January 19, 2006, at 9:54:04
In reply to Re: change to FAQ, posted by Deneb on January 19, 2006, at 9:18:16
To me, this new rule means that I can never post about self-injury or death again.
So, I can't post about how I'm so upset that I want to OD or something?
So I can't post about thinking about it? I can't post about it in a casual way? I can't post that maybe it would be a good idea to OD so people will take me seriously?
Can I post "I think it would be a good idea to OD so people will take me seriously" and then add, "ODing is a very bad and serious thing"? That way I say it's serious. Then is it OK?
Does this mean that I can't post about me thinking about jumping off buildings or jumping in front of a bus or hanging myself in a causal way? By causal I mean I would post that these thoughts are in my head but that I don't want to die? Would it be OK then if I add that I realize these thoughts are very serious (even if I don't believe that)?.
Please clarify "lightly". What is considered inappropriate?
Do some people hate me? Do people hate that I'm here? Do people want me to go away?
Do you hate me Dr. Bob?
(By asking these questions I'm not implying that people actually hate me, not accusations, only questions).
Deneb
Posted by Deneb on January 19, 2006, at 10:05:41
In reply to Re: change to FAQ *TRIGGERS*, posted by Deneb on January 19, 2006, at 9:54:04
OK, I just want to say that right now I agree that death or injury should not be taken lightly. I understand that. I need to be sensitive to other people's feelings about that. Right now this rule is OK because I have no urge to post those things...no desire to think about death or injury. But, I know these things can change.
This rule basically means that I need to ban myself from posting when I get in a certain way. This is what you are saying right? Or are you saying that I need to make sure I never get that way again?
Are you saying that I need to maintain my mental health if I want to participate here?
Deneb
Posted by wildcard11 on January 19, 2006, at 10:53:06
In reply to Re: change to FAQ, posted by Deneb on January 19, 2006, at 10:05:41
Deneb, maintain your mental health for you!! That is the most important reason, not to be able to participate here. You need to put you first...
Posted by JenStar on January 19, 2006, at 11:10:32
In reply to Re: change to FAQ, posted by Deneb on January 19, 2006, at 9:18:16
hi Deneb,
It probably does reflect some of the discussion and concern that has come up recently over posts about self-injury and harm. I know you've posted some along those lines, so it's important for you to understand the guidelines for the future.I don't think the rules are just about *you*, though. Dr. Bob is always trying to refine the FAQ and rules to better meets the needs of the ENTIRE community here.
All of us have to meet these guidelines; not just you - so don't feel alone. :) Sometimes we all have to change behaviors to fit into a certain group. That's not necessarily bad, do you think?
JenStar
Posted by JenStar on January 19, 2006, at 11:14:13
In reply to Re: change to FAQ, posted by Deneb on January 19, 2006, at 10:05:41
Deneb, can I ask you a question? I'm not asking this to be rude or unkind; I'm truly curious.
When you ask those questions, are you asking them in a frustrated, sarcastic kind of way, to let people know that you don't *like* the new rules, or are you really serious that you don't understand how to interpret the rules? I don't want to make any assumptions about what you are thinking, so I thought I would ask.
Do you really think that you are being asked to maintain mental health in order to participate on the site? How do you interpret that?
Curious...
JenStar
Posted by NikkiT2 on January 19, 2006, at 11:16:15
In reply to Re: change to FAQ, posted by Deneb on January 19, 2006, at 10:05:41
Deneb,
firstly, remember not *everything* is about you.
Secondly, there are ways of posting without making light of the problem. On Tuesday evening I posted here, desperately, desperately wanting to self harm, but there are ways to post about it, without "making light of it".
Don't joke about, and don't use it as a threat. You can say "I am in so much pain right now and I have a terrible urge to cut or OD". That is not making light of it. But you shouldn't say "Oh, I can't face taking tomorrows test so I'm going to OD to get out of it".
Can you understand the difference?
Nikki x
Posted by Deneb on January 19, 2006, at 11:17:29
In reply to Re: change to FAQ » Deneb, posted by JenStar on January 19, 2006, at 11:10:32
> All of us have to meet these guidelines; not just you - so don't feel alone. :) Sometimes we all have to change behaviors to fit into a certain group. That's not necessarily bad, do you think?
>
> JenStar
>Yeah, I gave it more thought and I think you're right. Maybe following these rules will make things easier on me, in that huge blow-ups on the board will be avoided. Everyone feels bad when things blow-up.
I'll follow the rules. I'll do what I can to prevent things from getting out of hand.
Deneb
Posted by JenStar on January 19, 2006, at 11:20:53
In reply to Re: change to FAQ *TRIGGERS*, posted by Deneb on January 19, 2006, at 9:54:04
Deneb, I don't hate you!
Sometimes I feel frustrated when I read your posts about SI or death, because I don't know how to best help or respond, and because it seems to be a chronic problem for you. I feel bad when I see people suffering from chronic problems that don't seem to improve over time.
Sometimes I get frustrated when I read your posts about SI because I interpret the words used as being somewhat "light" about death. Interpretation is personal, and since I don't know you IRL it's hard to fully "get" someone from their words. And of course I own my feelings; my feelings are MY responsibility, not yours.
But since you asked, that is how I feel sometimes.
Other times, I really enjoy your posts because they are fun, light-hearted and supportive. I enjoy reading your humorous and "story telling" posts.
But that doesn't mean I want you to go away, or to stop posting your negative thoughts. I do hope you're able to stay within the civility guidelines (and I think you can do it!) so that you can keep participating here. You're a valued member! :)
JenStar
Posted by Deneb on January 19, 2006, at 11:21:14
In reply to Re: change to FAQ » Deneb, posted by NikkiT2 on January 19, 2006, at 11:16:15
> Deneb,
>
> firstly, remember not *everything* is about you.Yeah, I tend to think everything is about me.
> Don't joke about, and don't use it as a threat. You can say "I am in so much pain right now and I have a terrible urge to cut or OD". That is not making light of it. But you shouldn't say "Oh, I can't face taking tomorrows test so I'm going to OD to get out of it".
>
> Can you understand the difference?I think I understand the difference...maybe. I have to include the part about the pain with my sentence right? Is that it? Otherwise I don't think I get the difference.
Deneb
Posted by Deneb on January 19, 2006, at 11:26:26
In reply to Re: change to FAQ » Deneb, posted by JenStar on January 19, 2006, at 11:14:13
> When you ask those questions, are you asking them in a frustrated, sarcastic kind of way, to let people know that you don't *like* the new rules, or are you really serious that you don't understand how to interpret the rules?
I wouldn't say I was being sarcastic. I think it was more of a whiny slightly angry tone behind those questions. I really do want to know the answers for technical reasons, but I also felt a bit angry because at first I thought it was all about me and how people don't like the things I post.
> Do you really think that you are being asked to maintain mental health in order to participate on the site? How do you interpret that?
Sort of, yes. I have to get rid of my urges to post inappropriate things.
Deneb
Posted by Deneb on January 19, 2006, at 11:42:06
In reply to Re: change to FAQ *TRIGGERS* » Deneb, posted by JenStar on January 19, 2006, at 11:20:53
> But that doesn't mean I want you to go away, or to stop posting your negative thoughts. I do hope you're able to stay within the civility guidelines (and I think you can do it!) so that you can keep participating here. You're a valued member! :)
>
> JenStar
Thanks JenStar!I hope Dr. Bob feels the same way.
Deneb
Posted by NikkiT2 on January 19, 2006, at 13:30:59
In reply to Re: change to FAQ » NikkiT2, posted by Deneb on January 19, 2006, at 11:21:14
>
> I think I understand the difference...maybe. I have to include the part about the pain with my sentence right? Is that it? Otherwise I don't think I get the difference.
>
> Deneb
>Deneb,
Thats not exactly what I meant. Instead of simply epxlaining you are in pain, you seem to have a tendency to make it sound like you are simply using an OD to avoid something. Thats what makes it come across as sounding like you are making light of it. That, insteadof wanting to do it *because* of pain, you see it as a good way to avoid doing something you don't want to.
Out of interest, have you looked at the characteristics of Avoidant PD? I think it might ring true with you alot more than BPD does.. Though the two are often co-morbid, and I'm pretty sure that these days, while my BPD is much more under control, my avoidant side is coming out really strong.
Nikki x
Posted by Deneb on January 19, 2006, at 14:15:51
In reply to Re: change to FAQ, posted by NikkiT2 on January 19, 2006, at 13:30:59
> Thats not exactly what I meant. Instead of simply epxlaining you are in pain, you seem to have a tendency to make it sound like you are simply using an OD to avoid something.
Most of the time that is true.
> Thats what makes it come across as sounding like you are making light of it. That, insteadof wanting to do it *because* of pain, you see it as a good way to avoid doing something you don't want to.
Does this mean that I can't post anything about death or self harm when they are used to avoid things or to, um, "influence" people?
> Out of interest, have you looked at the characteristics of Avoidant PD? I think it might ring true with you alot more than BPD does..
Yes, a few years ago I came to the conclusion I either had/have an avoidant personality or social anxiety.
Meh, I don't know what is wrong with me, maybe everything, maybe nothing.
Deneb
Posted by sleepygirl on January 19, 2006, at 15:44:06
In reply to Re: change to FAQ, posted by Deneb on January 19, 2006, at 9:18:16
this issue really and honestly and truly is pertinent to A LOT of people
Posted by alexandra_k on January 19, 2006, at 15:50:06
In reply to Re: change to FAQ » NikkiT2, posted by Deneb on January 19, 2006, at 14:15:51
> Meh, I don't know what is wrong with me, maybe everything, maybe nothing.
lol, thats how i feel about me at times :-)
maybe... there is a middle ground?
i agree that you shouldn't take this personally.
i see it as something of a comprimise.
a comprimise between people being able to post about suicide / si
and between people finding those threads hard (especially when someone they know has killed themself or something like that)you CAN post about your urges / thoughts
but you need to do this in a way that is respectful to the point that most other people (not all - but most) find death to be a really very serious matter.i think you do grasp this at times.
but at other times you forget.it is a middle ground.
hopefully it will lead to less conflict over the issue on the boards (which will be better for you and for other people too)
:-)
Posted by Phillipa on January 19, 2006, at 22:13:37
In reply to Re: change to FAQ, posted by alexandra_k on January 19, 2006, at 15:50:06
Deneb I think what you said before is true you need to see someone IRL to talk to in person so the urges don't overcome you. And I do not take SI lightly. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 19, 2006, at 22:52:49
In reply to Re: change to FAQ *TRIGGERS*, posted by Deneb on January 19, 2006, at 9:54:04
> Please clarify "lightly". What is considered inappropriate?
From Merriam-Webster OnLine:
Main Entry: light·ly
: in a light manner: as
b : with indifference or carelessness : UNCONCERNEDLY <the problem should not be passed over lightly -- Shelly Halpern>Main Entry: un·con·cerned
2 : not anxious or upset : free of worrySorry, but this is bound to be somewhat subjective. Like civility in general. If anyone's unsure about the appropriateness of something, they can always ask before posting it.
Bob
Posted by Deneb on January 19, 2006, at 23:16:32
In reply to Re: change to FAQ, posted by Dr. Bob on January 19, 2006, at 22:52:49
> Sorry, but this is bound to be somewhat subjective. Like civility in general. If anyone's unsure about the appropriateness of something, they can always ask before posting it.
>
> BobDr. Bob, that was of no help to me whatsoever. I know the definition of "lightly".
As for asking about the appropriateness of something, I did. I asked many times in the posts above. Can *somebody* tell me if they are OK or not? Just tell me, YES or NO.
Example: Can I post that it's fun to think of ODing sometimes? (not that I do, just an example)
Can I post: "Hmmm...just for the heck of it I think I'll learn to tie a noose?"
Can I post: "I really don't want to write my exam, I think I'll take an OD"
Can I post: "People here are making me very upset"...then something to the effect of them making me want to OD or die or something?
Aaahhhh! This is sooo frustrating!ARGH! I'm angry. I wish I could come up with a 100 examples, but I can't 'cause I gotta go to bed now.
Can someone tell me the tone of Dr. Bob's post? It sounded like he was annoyed with me, or angry or something.
Well that's fine, if he's angry, 'cause I'm angry too. So there!
Sorry folks, minor tantrum...
Deneb
Posted by Dinah on January 19, 2006, at 23:34:38
In reply to Re: change to FAQ, posted by Dr. Bob on January 19, 2006, at 22:52:49
Dr. Bob.
Deneb has asked very specific questions in two separate posts. Why not answer them? New rules always need clarification, and better now than in practice.
I'm interested to know as well.
Posted by Dinah on January 19, 2006, at 23:36:55
In reply to Re: change to FAQ, posted by Deneb on January 19, 2006, at 23:16:32
Deneb, why don't you combine and number the two sets of questions from the two posts (or more if there were more) and put them in one post directed to Dr. Bob.
He tends to give more specific answers if you ask very specific questions.
Unless of course he just says that he won't know until it's in context, in which case we can both scream in frustration. Very loudly.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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