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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Elle2021 on March 27, 2004, at 1:08:32
Bob,
There is a post on the Social Board that has upset me to a degree that I am unable to express right now. Please take a look at it.http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20040324/msgs/328660.html;
Elle
Posted by Elle2021 on March 27, 2004, at 1:10:58
In reply to Bob- About a post..., posted by Elle2021 on March 27, 2004, at 1:08:32
Corrected Link
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20040324/msgs/328660.html
> Elle
>
>
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 27, 2004, at 21:13:45
In reply to Bob- About a post..., posted by Elle2021 on March 27, 2004, at 1:08:32
> There is a post on the Social Board that has upset me to a degree that I am unable to express right now.
I can see what you mean. I'm glad you posted to that thread directly. Take care,
Bob
Posted by shar on March 27, 2004, at 21:56:09
In reply to Re: About a post... » Elle2021, posted by Dr. Bob on March 27, 2004, at 21:13:45
I agree, a most upsetting post. But, can we (even if only briefly) consider the fact that someone's pet rat may be in such a state that helping it die is a favor? So many people seem to think that life, no matter what, is 'worth it.'
I believe that 'quality of life' no matter what, is worth it.
That's really all I have to say. C. Dumont was talking about helping her pet rat die, and thus avoid pain and suffering (that's my take). I believe that, with pets, that is an ok, even admirable, thing to do (tho' I probably would've chosen the vet's injection as opposed to doing it myself).
It is undoubtedly disturbing.
And, so is any death.
Shar
Posted by Dinah on March 27, 2004, at 22:02:22
In reply to Re: About a post...Elle, posted by shar on March 27, 2004, at 21:56:09
I can't, of course, speak for Elle. But while I'm a big believer in euthanasia for suffering pets, I was a bit concerned about the description as well, given that it used psych drugs and liquor and a plastic bag. Don't know how specific I can be about why that bothered me without breaking board rules. Can I say I found it somewhat triggering?
Posted by shar on March 27, 2004, at 22:27:03
In reply to Re: About a post...Elle » shar, posted by Dinah on March 27, 2004, at 22:02:22
Yes, Dinah, I agree.
I know that you are particularly tuned in to pet issues. And, I wondered myself about the use of meds.
I will defer to anybody who is more knowledgeable than I in this case. (Secretly, to me, it seemed odd, given that a vet could have ended its misery so quickly. Yet.......that is only me--the route I would have chosen evem if I had to go without food to pay the vet...)
Could this be some person who desires an uproar?
Shar
Posted by Dinah on March 27, 2004, at 22:38:08
In reply to Re: About a post...Elle » Dinah, posted by shar on March 27, 2004, at 22:27:03
I'm sure there was no ill intent. I didn't mean to imply that.
But I'm rather easily triggered in that area. Did you ever see the X-Files episode with Peter Boyle? It gave me obsessions about suicide for months. It's hard to get those images out of your head once they get in.
I'm not sure what Dr. Bob's parameters are about talking about means of death. If they are just about giving exact doses, then clearly the post was within the guidelines. And I guess it was since Dr. Bob has been here and didn't say anything.
And it was no worse than the graphic self injury posts, either.
And people (including myself) don't always think to put trigger warnings on posts.
Posted by shar on March 27, 2004, at 22:53:23
In reply to Re: About a post...Elle » shar, posted by Dinah on March 27, 2004, at 22:38:08
You are very generous to assume there was no ill intent. I suppose you are less cynical/paranoid than I am. Good for you! A very positive sign!
A "trigger" warning would have been most excellent.
And, yes, I have seen that Peter Boyle episode of the X-files. I was left with a feeling of how poignant it was, and how Scully sort of 'fought' for her life.
I hope you, Dinah, are not too upset.
Shar
> I'm sure there was no ill intent. I didn't mean to imply that.
>
> But I'm rather easily triggered in that area. Did you ever see the X-Files episode with Peter Boyle? It gave me obsessions about suicide for months. It's hard to get those images out of your head once they get in.
>
> I'm not sure what Dr. Bob's parameters are about talking about means of death. If they are just about giving exact doses, then clearly the post was within the guidelines. And I guess it was since Dr. Bob has been here and didn't say anything.
>
> And it was no worse than the graphic self injury posts, either.
>
> And people (including myself) don't always think to put trigger warnings on posts.
Posted by Elle2021 on March 28, 2004, at 3:46:14
In reply to Re: About a post...Elle, posted by shar on March 27, 2004, at 21:56:09
I am in no way against putting a suffering animal "to sleep." I have had the unfortunate experience myself at the vet's office. It is most disturbing. (Although, I should make a point here that I do not advocate euthanasia for humans.) The thing that upset me about the post from Camille is that I found it to be in no way a humane way to end a pet's life. At the vet's office, death is administered quickly and fairly painlessly. Using psychiatric
medications, "booze," and a plastic bag is extremely inhumane in my opinion. It is certainly *not* a death I would wish on any living creature. Furthermore, I did not want to read the details of the death.I can't remember which one of you said that you would rather put out the money to have the animal euthanized instead of eat, but I entirely agree. My pets (my babies) are my children. If my bills fell into arrears it wouldn't matter either. My babies come before money and food.
I am having great difficulty getting this post out of my head. I thought about it ALL night yesterday and it was recurrent in my thoughts today. It's going to be a long while before I forget this, if I am ever so blessed to be able to forget it at all.
I know one of you mentioned that the graphic SI posts are no different, but I don't agree. Except in rare circumstances, people who SI don't die. Plus, the person is inflicting the pain on his/herself not another living creature. Now, the graphic details may be disturbing in both cases. Perhaps there should be some discussion as to what is allowed on this board and what is not in regard to these issues.
Dinah, I know you and Harry are going through some difficult things right now. I've been there, and I sympathize with you and I am here for you.
Elle
Posted by Dinah on March 28, 2004, at 10:12:57
In reply to Shar and Dinah » shar, posted by Elle2021 on March 28, 2004, at 3:46:14
Unfortunately, growing up on a farm and with hunting friends and relations, I've seen and heard things that make this pale in comparison.
Thanks for being concerned. Fortunately I'm too d*mned tired right now to be triggered by anything.
Even obsessions don't find the energy they need to be sustained. So while at other times, the details of this story might have merged with Peter Boyle's character's end to give me nonstop obsessions, I don't think they will this time.
(By the way, Shar, that was my absolutely favorite X Files episode ever. And I bought it on tape - the only X Files episode I own. I just can't bring myself to watch it unless I'm feeling really good.)
Posted by gardenergirl on March 28, 2004, at 11:57:18
In reply to Shar and Dinah » shar, posted by Elle2021 on March 28, 2004, at 3:46:14
Posted by Karen_kay on March 28, 2004, at 12:37:03
In reply to (((((Elle))))) (nm), posted by gardenergirl on March 28, 2004, at 11:57:18
Elle, I agree with gg. ((((((((ELLE)))))))))))
I'm thinking about you dear. Take care of yourself.
Posted by justyourlaugh on March 28, 2004, at 15:35:56
In reply to Shar and Dinah » shar, posted by Elle2021 on March 28, 2004, at 3:46:14
i agree that for some people pets "are babies",
but they are not..
for someone living in the country that has delt with alot of animal suffering , death in the hands of the "master" is most humane..
..
as far as "si triggers" , ?
i really do think that hurting someone else is any less harmfulful than hurting yourself..
thats where mental illness come out to play,,
a person that harms is in pain....and suffers the same...
..
this post needed a "trigger warning"
nothing more..
imbo
jyl
Posted by Elle2021 on March 28, 2004, at 21:11:59
In reply to Re: Shar and Dinah » Elle2021, posted by justyourlaugh on March 28, 2004, at 15:35:56
> i agree that for some people pets "are babies",
> but they are not..They are for me.
> for someone living in the country that has delt with alot of animal suffering , death in the hands of the "master" is most humane..
You consider suffocation humane? In the state I live in, a person could incur a stiff fine and possible jail time for the actions described in Camille's post.
Elle
Posted by justyourlaugh on March 29, 2004, at 8:18:35
In reply to Re: Shar and Dinah » justyourlaugh, posted by Elle2021 on March 28, 2004, at 21:11:59
elle,
i was only suggesting that not everyone looks at animals as "babies"..
how are the humans put to death by capital punishment in your "state"?
just a thought.
jyl
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 29, 2004, at 17:57:02
In reply to Re: Shar and Dinah » Elle2021, posted by justyourlaugh on March 29, 2004, at 8:18:35
I look at my pets as my babies too and she was graphic BUT I think she did the right thing cause I know sadly know, that most drugs to put pets to sleep makes it hard for them to breath. I wont detaol I think she did the psych drugs and booze to be merciful. I cannot blame her but CAN see it could trigger people. I think she loved her rat and did the best she could by it
Posted by Elle2021 on March 29, 2004, at 20:37:19
In reply to Re: Shar and Dinah » Elle2021, posted by justyourlaugh on March 29, 2004, at 8:18:35
> how are the humans put to death by capital punishment in your "state"?
I live in a state where it is by lethal injection only.
Elle
Posted by spoc on March 30, 2004, at 18:29:47
In reply to Re: Shar and Dinah, posted by Fallen4myT on March 29, 2004, at 17:57:02
I can understand the trigger concerns of hearing the description and that is very valid. But maybe questioning what was really going on could be hurtful. I haven't gotten to know many people's posting styles here yet, but wanted us all to think about how horrible it would be to combine genuine pet-loving good intentions like your own with having carried out an agonizing deed in the name of love, to be met with this. It would be traumatic if the intentions were indeed sincere to have these doubts cast not only on that but on the suffering the pet may have have actually incurred. If suffering was indeed likely given the method, maybe the poster needs to learn for future reference, but unless reason to doubt her motives exists it may be shattering to hear the speculations....
---
> I look at my pets as my babies too and she was graphic BUT I think she did the right thing cause I know sadly know, that most drugs to put pets to sleep makes it hard for them to breath. I wont detaol I think she did the psych drugs and booze to be merciful. I cannot blame her but CAN see it could trigger people. I think she loved her rat and did the best she could by it
This is the end of the thread.
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