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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 65. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Phil on February 12, 2004, at 23:46:21
I wanted a discussion of the board to take place but as much as I care for Dr Bob, I'm very doubtful that the impersonal, wacky policies here will ever change. I'm not attacking, this is my opinion of how to get well here.
Case in point:
KK: "I know I personally wouldn't confess to being treated unfairly if I wanted to stay..."
Phil: Did you hear what you just said? To stay on this board you would pretend to be okay when you actually believed(felt) otherwise.DR Bob: Maybe on Mars it's more important to speak out, even if that means conflict? Whereas on Venus it may be more important to get along, even if that means keeping something to oneself?
>>I have to disagree and find it hard to believe a psychiatrist would ever advise swallowing your anger when you are hurt for the sake of getting along or not getting blocked. The goal here is to "learn" how to get along. If we knew already, we wouldn't be here.
These discussions don't have to be hostile but mental health = not denying your feelings. You are only as sick as your secrets. If someone gets hurt on this board(real or perceived)from Dr Bob or another poster, Dr Bob, are you recommending they swallow their anger?I'm not saying anyone should lash out, but many people here need to know what they are feeling is valid and express, in a non-accusatorial way, that,i.e. 'Phil, what you said hurt my feelings.'
My job? Don't get defensive. "I'm sorry, what did I say that hurt you?"
'You said I should know better than that; that's what my abuser used to say.'
"I'm so sorry, I didn't think when I posted..."
Many here, me included, still struggle with interpersonal communications. I lose my temper, say something harsh and am punished for it.
If the board operates as one big dysfunctional family with no guidance, just longer vacations, we are being taught that anger is bad and we don't want you here for..well, you're up to 12 months.
This reinforces dysfunctional behavior; the board has lost it's purpose to educate and instead tries to find or lengthen punishment.
What I hope could happen is that people learn healthy ways to communicate and not be punished for the very reason they are here..and that is, to learn.It's very much like the governments idea of what is appropriate for some crimes. Instead of making efforts to help the criminal learn to get along in society, we build more prisons and stop all efforts to rehabilitate. Now, what does that person feel when released back into mainstream population after no effort to help him has happened and he was abused in prison. He's angrier and should be. His crimes escalate, we build more prisons.
That, on a lesser scale(but maybe no less harmful)is how many feel here.
That is why letting a mentally ill population self-correct and always be supportive will never happen. And if one curses, heaven forbid you lose your temper.
So, with this size of a community, there eventually will have to be knowledgeable people monitoring the board constantly. If a firestorm breaks out, you can be pulled aside and given the correct way to communicate, you settle it or you can take a few mental health days.
There is a way but it won't happen with one moderator who only has time to kick you off the board for basically not knowing better or for losing your temper. That's why once you're blocked, it sometimes escalates pretty fast. The person leaves bitter and feels more anger, more misunderstood, and alone. They may see the light two days later but their sentence is 36 weeks.
This should be seen as an online teaching center. When it was just PB it was pretty cool but as more interpersonal relationships develop, it takes careful skilled monitoring. That is, if indeed we are expected to grow here emotionally. If that isn't the purpose, more boards open so people can talk(or argue)about a variety of topics but not face the real issue: How do I face up to and grow in regards to my illness, my people skills, and my self-esteem?
I can tell you this, all the boards may make it seem like a better community when in fact, they may further lead us from our goal of becoming better communicators and better people which will lead to a better world.
Instead of distractions of where to post, we need to learn how to be better human beings.Phil
Posted by fayeroe on February 13, 2004, at 7:38:48
In reply to Is this community making you mentally healthier?, posted by Phil on February 12, 2004, at 23:46:21
Phil, keep beating the drum. I don't think that it will be heard and addressed but you are right.......Pat
Posted by Sooshi on February 13, 2004, at 20:35:15
In reply to Is this community making you mentally healthier?, posted by Phil on February 12, 2004, at 23:46:21
Phil, PLEASE start your own message board and take us all with you...please???
Posted by gabbix2 on February 13, 2004, at 22:01:46
In reply to Re: Is this community making you mentally healthier? » Phil, posted by Sooshi on February 13, 2004, at 20:35:15
I don't think anything will change but I can't
stay silent. I think however it will be the last thing I say on the subject as just being here makes me anxious.
I've met some incredible people here, and for that I will be forever grateful. I also met some incredible people at school, but I don't feel the principal can do know wrong.. nor do I feel forever indebted to the school for it was the people themselves who made my life better.I wouldn't ever want a support group that did not have civility guidelines, or blocks. I've been to unmoderated sites and they made my stomach turn.
However the person who is implimenting the 'punishment' has got to be consistant, and seem to understand the effect of applying it.
Being a "visionary" is one thing, but how many people have to be crushed in order to complete this "vision?"
Am I being dramatic? I don't think so.
Look at the effect VOLUNTARILY leaving has had
on two of our members recently, and they have the choice to return.It is certainly no less a sense of loss for someone to be forced to leave, especially when it is added to the frustration of knowing that another poster at another time could have gotten away with the same thing.
I cringe every time I see someone
get away with saying the word s*it, when someone else gets nailed for it especially when for some people that one slip can mean a 6 month "Vacation"What happened to Zen was wrong plain and simple.
Clayton getting blocked for a week for calling
Effexor evil was wrong. There is a whole thread going right now people are calling Effexor evil and nothing is being said.. what happened?
Did the rules change again? If they've changed why didn't someone say something?I got blocked for 9 weeks calling an email from someone here abusive and threatening.. for petes sake it referred in detail to how someone should have been an abortion, among other things.
Was I trying to start trouble..NO! I was trying to vouch for someone who was claiming to have recieved similar emails and who was being called a liar.
Anyone who is studying online communities
as is being done here, should be well aware of the damage done when someone is forced out, especially when the enforcement of the rules is inconsistant and the action precipitating the punishiment is not one of cruelty.If consistancy and fairness is not seen as a priority-(and it's certainly a noble and achievable goal) then in my opinion a crucial part of the circuit just isn't connecting.
Posted by Phil on February 13, 2004, at 23:45:30
In reply to Re: Is this community making you mentally healthier?, posted by gabbix2 on February 13, 2004, at 22:01:46
gabbix, I'm so angry again that if I get going I'll get thrown off of this board forever so I can't comment other than the fact that I agree.
I have to stop there. Maybe tomorrow I will have calmed down enough to say more.
I'm sorry but if I can't mellow out, I'm going to blow a breaker. My anger is beyond logic right now.
Phil
Posted by Phil on February 14, 2004, at 0:26:57
In reply to Re: Is this community making you mentally healthier? » Phil, posted by Sooshi on February 13, 2004, at 20:35:15
Sooshi that's sweet but I'm trying monthly to have enough money to eat. Maybe we could start a blog...hmmmm. All we have to do is go to Goggle and do it.
Maybe fallsfall and Zen could get us set up professionally. In Austin and everywhere else there's a therapist behind every bush, I'm sure I could do recruiting and have some take turns moderating. We could ride herd some too.
I know some therapists here that are incredibly good. We could ask them to write articles once a month. Marital therapists one week. Social worker the next. Psychologists, addiction specialists.
Who knows, maybe you're on to something. Work it more like a commune than a city. Grow our own pills. Let's see if anyone is interested. I'd love to have Cam involved and a ton of others who have split. We could be a cooperative of sorts.
Lets talk some more but I would want to be part of the crew. mairs' one smart cookie. Who knows?
SOOSHILAND.
Posted by stoked on February 14, 2004, at 0:37:47
In reply to Re: Is this community making you mentally healthie » gabbix2, posted by Phil on February 13, 2004, at 23:45:30
Uh, Phil
I don't post here much and I was able to find out what I wanted about meds from other people's questions.
Just wanted to tell you that I think the stuff you've said about this board is dead on.
I'm not going to be making any more posts because this mod is just to weird. He seems to be playing games with people, kicking people out when he feels like it and then getting off on people telling him how great he is.
The people here seem to be really great, nice people, and I feel really bad for them for all the problems they have. So I really hope you can make this board work, or maybe make your own board.
I just think it's messed up how everyone seems scared to death that they could get kicked off, especially when they don't have anything else. You guys need to exchange e-mail addresses or something.
I think my meds are working better because of what I learned on this board and told my doctor. You guys are really great, and I really hope stuff starts looking up for you.
Hey Phil, this may sound crazy, but surfing and skateboarding (can't surf much anymore, moved inland--sucks) is probably the number one thing that keeps me going. Maybe you could find something that you can just lose yourself in. I know some people really go for karate--kind of like surfing or skating because it can become such a big part of you life.
Sorry for just babbling (ha ha) but I just know what you mean about anger because I've got a lot of anger and my shrink sure can't handle all of it! I blow a lot off ripping around ditches on my board.
So I just want to say that you're a really smart, great guy with really good ideas, and you need to listen to people who tell you to lighten up and be good to yourself cause you definitely deserve it.
Peace.
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 14, 2004, at 0:50:20
In reply to Re: Is this community making you mentally healthie, posted by stoked on February 14, 2004, at 0:37:47
> I don't post here much
If for any reason you feel you need to change your posting name, please follow the steps in the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#names
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 14, 2004, at 0:51:49
In reply to Re: Is this community making you mentally healthier?, posted by gabbix2 on February 13, 2004, at 22:01:46
> There is a whole thread going right now people are calling Effexor evil and nothing is being said..
Post a URL, and I'll take a look...
> Was I trying to start trouble..NO! I was trying to vouch for someone who was claiming to have recieved similar emails and who was being called a liar.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
> I got blocked for 9 weeks calling an email from someone here abusive and threatening..
Keeping in mind that the idea here is not to post anything that could lead others to feel accused, could you please rephrase that?
If you have any questions about this or comments about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways to express yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
or post a follow-up here. Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 14, 2004, at 0:55:31
In reply to Is this community making you mentally healthier?, posted by Phil on February 12, 2004, at 23:46:21
> I have to disagree and find it hard to believe a psychiatrist would ever advise swallowing your anger when you are hurt for the sake of getting along or not getting blocked. The goal here is to "learn" how to get along.
Well, sometimes people get along better if they keep some things to themselves.
> These discussions don't have to be hostile but mental health = not denying your feelings. If someone gets hurt on this board ... are you recommending they swallow their anger?
It can be therapeutic to express yourself, but this isn't necessarily the place:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
> many people here need to know what they are feeling is valid and express, in a non-accusatorial way, that,i.e. 'Phil, what you said hurt my feelings.'
I agree, but it tends to be more civil to talk about how you feel than what someone else did, for example, to use an I-statement like "Phil, I feel hurt by what you said":
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
> If the board operates as one big dysfunctional family with no guidance, just longer vacations, we are being taught that anger is bad
Vacations are one form of guidance. It's incivility, not anger, that's the problem.
> What I hope could happen is that people learn healthy ways to communicate...
Racer recently had what I thought was a good idea:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20040112/msgs/305106.html
So I revised the standard PBC language to include "alternative ways to express yourself". Now we're just waiting for thirsty horses...
Bob
Posted by gabbix2 on February 14, 2004, at 1:18:53
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » gabbix2, posted by Dr. Bob on February 14, 2004, at 0:51:49
> > There is a whole thread going right now people are calling Effexor evil and nothing is being said..
>
> Post a URL, and I'll take a look...You've already seen it, you p.b.c'd someone on the thread for being unsupportive but not for labelling the drug.
>
> > Was I trying to start trouble..NO! I was trying to vouch for someone who was claiming to have recieved similar emails and who was being called a liar.
>
> Two wrongs don't make a right.It was not about "getting back" at the person
sending the e-mails. It was about defending the person being called a liar, because I knew that they were not lying.
In doing so I unknowingly tripped over one of your rules by making a judgement about the content of the e-mail.
The crucial difference is my intention was not to hurt anyone. You'll say that's impossible to decipher, however you've seen the evidence. Nine weeks is an awfully long time if there is any doubt at all Dr. Bob. My blocks were automatically tripled from the first time I got one, I guess I'm special.
>
> > I got blocked for 9 weeks calling an email from someone here abusive and threatening..
>
> Keeping in mind that the idea here is not to post anything that could lead others to feel accused, could you please rephrase that?I didn't mention any names.
Am I not allowed to say I recieved an abusive e-mail.. ever? I'm not being confrontational I'm asking a question.
Posted by fayeroe on February 14, 2004, at 7:29:06
In reply to Re: Is this community making you mentally healthie » Sooshi, posted by Phil on February 14, 2004, at 0:26:57
> Sooshi that's sweet but I'm trying monthly to have enough money to eat. Maybe we could start a blog...hmmmm. All we have to do is go to Goggle and do it.
> Maybe fallsfall and Zen could get us set up professionally. In Austin and everywhere else there's a therapist behind every bush, I'm sure I could do recruiting and have some take turns moderating. We could ride herd some too.
> I know some therapists here that are incredibly good. We could ask them to write articles once a month. Marital therapists one week. Social worker the next. Psychologists, addiction specialists.
> Who knows, maybe you're on to something. Work it more like a commune than a city. Grow our own pills. Let's see if anyone is interested. I'd love to have Cam involved and a ton of others who have split. We could be a cooperative of sorts.
> Lets talk some more but I would want to be part of the crew. mairs' one smart cookie. Who knows?
> SOOSHILAND.Phil, I'm in........I will help. Aside~~~can anyone name one change that has come about here and was instigated by a majority of suggestions from the posters that "helped our mental health"?
Just curious.......
>
>
Posted by Sooshi on February 14, 2004, at 11:56:45
In reply to Re: Is this community making you mentally healthie » Sooshi, posted by Phil on February 14, 2004, at 0:26:57
I just KNEW we were like minded..."commune...grow our own pills...therapist behind every bush...cooperative" - sounds like Austin to me because I LIVE HERE TOO! How cool is that?
Posted by Phil on February 14, 2004, at 13:00:45
In reply to Re: Is this community making you mentally healthie » Phil, posted by Sooshi on February 14, 2004, at 11:56:45
Way cool. Many here are from Austin...hmmm. Makes you wonder don't it?
When Texas took Lithium out of the water supply, it's been all down/up/down hill.
When I saw 'Sooshi', I had a feeling. 8^)
Posted by mair on February 14, 2004, at 13:50:55
In reply to Is this community making you mentally healthier?, posted by Phil on February 12, 2004, at 23:46:21
...only in inverse proportion to the amount of time I spend on the Admin Board. (-:
Posted by fayeroe on February 14, 2004, at 15:25:44
In reply to Re: Is this community making you mentally healthier? » Phil, posted by mair on February 14, 2004, at 13:50:55
I knew something was in the water.......I'm moving to Austin, as well as the rest of my family, in 2005!!!!
Posted by henrietta on February 14, 2004, at 18:48:38
In reply to Is this community making you mentally healthier?, posted by Phil on February 12, 2004, at 23:46:21
do you know do you know do you know do you know do you care do you care do you care do you care do you think do you think do you think do you think mommy did it daddy did it mommy did it daddy did it mommy mommy who's dead did it down melt melt down down melt scary melt downs woke up 36 hours later pretending none of it ever happend
nobody resigned nobody died on the hill we're all deputies again who cares as long as mommy and daddy are ok who cares how many anonymous lurkers are injured by mommy and daddys meltdowns in public on a big old board for mental health
yeah this place has improved my mental health
think before you bleed all over everybody else
do it privately ok it's all my fault it's all my fault it's all my fault block me forever please this place is sick-making sick-making sick-making
sick-making
Posted by Dinah on February 14, 2004, at 19:15:47
In reply to Re: Is this community making you mentally healthier?, posted by henrietta on February 14, 2004, at 18:48:38
But I'm not anyone's Mommy except my son's. And if I were a completely well person, I wouldn't be posting here.
And it wasn't all that pleasant for me either, you know.
Posted by gabbix2 on February 14, 2004, at 19:35:52
In reply to Re: Is this community making you mentally healthier?, posted by henrietta on February 14, 2004, at 18:48:38
*
Posted by shar on February 14, 2004, at 23:13:58
In reply to Henrietta, posted by gabbix2 on February 14, 2004, at 19:35:52
Yikes.
That really took me about 30 years into my own past. All the pain. Mommy. Daddy. I wonder if it would have been better to have PB then? Maybe I could have talked about it.
Who knows?
Shar
Posted by henrietta on February 14, 2004, at 23:59:51
In reply to Re: Henrietta, posted by shar on February 14, 2004, at 23:13:58
Posted by All Done on February 15, 2004, at 1:42:29
In reply to Re: Sorry to have upset you » henrietta, posted by Dinah on February 14, 2004, at 19:15:47
Posted by Phil on February 15, 2004, at 2:10:21
In reply to Re: Henrietta, posted by shar on February 14, 2004, at 23:13:58
Posted by Phil on February 15, 2004, at 2:20:29
In reply to Re: Is this community making you mentally healthier?, posted by fayeroe on February 14, 2004, at 15:25:44
Please, let them build some roads first!
That's great! We'll start Psycho-Babble SXSW.
I don't look anything like I type.
That's a great idea, bringing your family.
Jeez, I'm randon...it's nap time.
Posted by Dinah on February 15, 2004, at 2:21:07
In reply to Re: Henrietta, posted by shar on February 14, 2004, at 23:13:58
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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