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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 80 to 104 of 131. Go back in thread:
Posted by zazenducky on September 15, 2006, at 19:57:09
In reply to Re: that post was a year old!, posted by gardenergirl on September 15, 2006, at 19:46:30
> It doesn't matter how old the post is. I was responding to this statement from SLS:
> "It would also be an interesting experiment to see how serial public disputations affect the psyches of those being accused of misconduct on a regular basis."Well Lou could probably tell us couldn't he? He has certainly suffered more accusations than anyone else I can think of on this board.
>
> My point was that there is already data out there. At least one person has already posted how it affected their "psyche". That discussion was memorable for me. I didn't intend to be "cryptic", but I wanted to make my point without bringing another person into it, as I did by later linking Nikki's post.
>
> That is all.
>
> gg, who's not replying as a deputy and who is abstaining from any deputy duties on this thread.
>
> Who also wants to make the picky point that no one is ever "banned" from this site. They are blocked from posting as a consequence of a behavior. They can still access the site.
******No they are blocked as the result of a subjective interpretation of their post made by one of a small group selected by Bob :) Quite a different thing indeed************
Posted by Racer on September 15, 2006, at 20:52:04
In reply to Re: that post was a year old!, posted by zazenducky on September 15, 2006, at 19:57:09
First of all, I don't expect that any general consensus will come from this thread. I very much doubt that anything said in this thread will modify anyone else's opinions on the matter...
So, what I'm about to say is probably just typing practice. :-) S'OK, I never was much of a typist...
> > They are blocked from posting as a consequence of a behavior.
>
>
> ******No they are blocked as the result of a subjective interpretation of their post made by one of a small group selected by Bob :) Quite a different thing indeed************
>
Zazenducky, I don't agree with you about this. It seems to me that the civility guidelines are posted, they're available for people to read, and it's a choice to abide by them or not. What's more, blocks are usually preceeded by warnings. Therefore, I think blocks are earned, not bestowed.And another part of my view, which probably explains why I can accept the system so well, is that only one person's opinion really matters here: the owner of the site. Why? Because of one word: owner.
I get a lot of support here. If I can't type some of the old AngloSaxon words I know because they might offend community standards? Yeah, it's worth it. I gotta try to play nice with others, even when I'm upset -- with them or with the world at large? Yeah, uh huh, good system. It means they gotta try to play nice with me when they feel snarky.
{shrug} As I said, this won't modify anyone's views about this place. It's just a pet peeve of mine, the "earned/given" thing. I hear it at school, too: "She *gave* me a B, even though I was only 30 points away from an A." Uh...
Posted by zazenducky on September 15, 2006, at 21:47:36
In reply to I guess I don't understand » zazenducky, posted by Racer on September 15, 2006, at 20:52:04
I accept that you are happy with the system. I'm not.
I think it is mean to gang up on Lou.I think the rules are vague and not equally enforced. But I hope this satisfies your subjective criteria. I'll do my best.
I think the pettiness and smugness and deputy girls who never want to grow up and post coyly about being "naughty" are well..... creepy. I think the deputies who choose not to sanction themselves are hypocrites. I think asterisking the vowels in "naughty " words is silly. I think it's emblematic of the boards worst characteristics.......hey look at us we can be nasty in cryptic and everyone will know but we'll still be following the rules.I think this victim act of Nikki's is demeaning to herself. Why did she choose to come back and get involved? Why does she keep reading posts if she doesn't like them? And Mel doesn't know how to block her e-mail???? but it's more fun to be a victim and post in crytic threatening lawsuits.and I come back here too so I'm a big fat idiot too but I don't want to play the game anymore.
So Bob can come rescue his deputy girls and you can all bond over your poor innocent victimhood.
Posted by gardenergirl on September 15, 2006, at 21:50:06
In reply to Lou's innitiation of impeachment procedings, posted by Lou Pilder on September 13, 2006, at 16:14:14
...for reminding me what an impeachable offense really is all about and for helping me reconnect to what's really important.
Anytime you want to come to dinner, Keith, you're welcome in my home.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on September 15, 2006, at 21:59:55
In reply to No you don't but that's ok. » Racer, posted by zazenducky on September 15, 2006, at 21:47:36
Though I get annoyed with myself for reinforcing certain behaviors, I've got my deputy hat back on now, and I feel no conflict about taking this action.
> I think this victim act of Nikki's is demeaning to herself.
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down. You've been asked to be civil before, so I am blocking you from posting. I've asked Dr. Bob to determine the duration of the block.
Follow-ups regarding these issues should of course be civil. As you are aware, Dr. Bob has oversight over deputy decisions. Thus, you can always appeal this decision to him, and he may choose a different action.
Regards,
deputy gg
Posted by notfred on September 15, 2006, at 22:07:25
In reply to Re: that post was a year old!, posted by zazenducky on September 15, 2006, at 19:57:09
He has certainly suffered more accusations than anyone else I can think of on this board.
>
> >
If you read through the archives, starting in 2000,
Lou has made far far more accusations against others
than other posters have made against him.
Posted by Racer on September 15, 2006, at 22:57:51
In reply to Re: that post was a year old!, posted by notfred on September 15, 2006, at 22:07:25
Posted by alexandra_k on September 15, 2006, at 23:52:45
In reply to I guess I don't understand » zazenducky, posted by Racer on September 15, 2006, at 20:52:04
> It seems to me that the civility guidelines are posted, they're available for people to read, and it's a choice to abide by them or not.
so people who are blocked have consciously chosen not to follow the civility rules?
> What's more, blocks are usually preceeded by warnings. Therefore, I think blocks are earned, not bestowed.
'earned'. you really think this?
Posted by alexandra_k on September 15, 2006, at 23:55:18
In reply to As you wish. Blocked » zazenducky, posted by gardenergirl on September 15, 2006, at 21:59:55
'as you wish'?
> Though I get annoyed with myself for reinforcing certain behaviors, I've got my deputy hat back on now...
sigh.
well these goes the notion of seperating out personal involvement from deputy involvement.> and I feel no conflict about taking this action.
right.
Sorry gg but I don't think that was professionally done at all.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 16, 2006, at 0:03:12
In reply to No you don't but that's ok. » Racer, posted by zazenducky on September 15, 2006, at 21:47:36
hey zazenduck. i'm sorry you are blocked.
i admire you for speaking out on lou's behalf.
i'm surprised there weren't civility warnings for some of the things people have said about lou...i think you make some very good points.
i feel sad that you didn't manage to say what you wanted to say within the civility guidelines.
i know it can be hard...
but i fear that your message will get lost because of the method of delivery.also you ask some very good questions.
take care.
Posted by Dinah on September 16, 2006, at 0:07:23
In reply to No you don't but that's ok. » Racer, posted by zazenducky on September 15, 2006, at 21:47:36
You know, it's very ironic. I had talked to my therapist about how happy I was that we seemed to be on better terms.
I've long admired your support for those you thought needed it. And your humor about expressing your support.
I think the things you mention might make me more than a bit silly. Yes, I often berate myself for silly. But creepy? I'd definitely choose silly over creepy. Still, I suppose adjectives are subjective. I guess an argument could be made that a silly fat old person attempting to be playful is creepy.
I don't recall seeing a Zazenducky block before, so I will see you soon, I'm sure. And I look forward to it. Take care.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 16, 2006, at 0:12:43
In reply to Dang. » zazenducky, posted by Dinah on September 16, 2006, at 0:07:23
i don't think you are silly or creepy.
just wanted to say that.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 16, 2006, at 0:17:04
In reply to Re: Dang. » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on September 16, 2006, at 0:12:43
i wish that had been a civil post.
i'm sorry dinah.
i think i understand.
i'm pretty sure i do.nerves...
everyone has them
and sometimes it is like people target them
frustration...
i think sometimes it is about frustration
of not being able to say what you need to say
of not being able to figure it out.i honestly don't know
i have no idea...but i know how much it can hurt.
i'm glad you post as much as you do.
i know sometimes it gets used in an attempt to hurt...
but mostly...
it helps other people
and i guess other people help you when you do share
but sometimes it gets used against you yeah
it happens sometimes
it is life.but as always i admire they way you handle this...
((((dinah)))))
sorry i had to take a look at the train...
woo woo
:-(
Posted by Dinah on September 16, 2006, at 0:18:37
In reply to Re: Dang. » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on September 16, 2006, at 0:12:43
I know. It's ok. I'm not upset or anything. Certainly not with Zazenduck.
Just some musings on my part.
Posted by Dinah on September 16, 2006, at 0:20:46
In reply to Re: Dang., posted by alexandra_k on September 16, 2006, at 0:17:04
A bit melancholy perhaps. And wistful. But not really hurt or angry.
And thank you. :)
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 16, 2006, at 0:42:47
In reply to As you wish. Blocked » zazenducky, posted by gardenergirl on September 15, 2006, at 21:59:55
> I've asked Dr. Bob to determine the duration of the block.
Let's make it a week.
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 16, 2006, at 0:42:57
In reply to Re: As you wish. Blocked » gardenergirl, posted by alexandra_k on September 15, 2006, at 23:55:18
> Lou has made far far more accusations against others
>
> notfred> I don't think that was professionally done at all.
>
> alexandra_kPlease don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're bad people.
Sharing something about your own issues and their possible role in your reaction might be an interesting exercise -- and might help others respond to you supportively.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please first see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 16, 2006, at 0:44:33
In reply to Words matter, posted by gardenergirl on September 14, 2006, at 14:35:11
> I see nothing wrong with making a post on admin announcing that an email has been sent to Dr. Bob about a concern about a deputy's actions.
I think I'd rather email, whether about a concern about a deputy or another poster, just be sent and not announced. Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Racer on September 16, 2006, at 1:01:23
In reply to Re: you really believe this? » Racer, posted by alexandra_k on September 15, 2006, at 23:52:45
> > It seems to me that the civility guidelines are posted, they're available for people to read, and it's a choice to abide by them or not.
>
> so people who are blocked have consciously chosen not to follow the civility rules?Depends on how you define "consciously." If you mean it in the sense of saying, "Hey! I know! I'll break the civility rules today!" then no, I don't think it's conscious.
What I do think, though, is that anyone who's been here for a while knows that there are limits in place on behavior, and that posting while highly emotional may lead to breaking those rules. In that sense, the conscious choice is to post, despite knowing that one is upset and liable to say something that isn't considered civil.
So, yes, I do believe what I wrote. That's why I wrote it... ;-)
>
> > What's more, blocks are usually preceeded by warnings. Therefore, I think blocks are earned, not bestowed.
>
> 'earned'. you really think this?
>Yes. I do.
Does that mean that I agree with every decision made by Dr Bob or the Deputies? Of course not! It does mean, though, that I think that Dr Bob can be in charge, because it's his clubhouse. One of the priviledges of ownership.
And you know what else? I know a lot of people may not agree with this, but I believe that Dr Bob tries to be fair. I believe that he makes every effort to be fair. There have been times when I think that he should enforce the SPIRIT of the civility guidelines rather than the letter, but I think he avoids that in order to be as fair as possible. He's fallible. He's human. But he tries.
The bottom line for me, though, in this and everything else about this site, is that I get the support I need here -- and I am in favor of whatever allows a group this large to coexist with a modicum of peace. I want to see this place continue, because I want to continue to give and receive support from others here. If that means not allowing my emotions to run away with me...
You know what, though? In the real world out there, if I let my emotions run away with me, and I say things in a fit of pique, it's gonna lead to me being "blocked" by the real world people around me, too. In that sense, Babble is a good learning place for me.
For what it's worth, although I do periodically post things that, you know, earn me a spanking, I try to remind myself not to post until I've had a chance to calm down. I'll write to GG, sometimes, and ask her to help me express myself without breaking the rules. There are others I also get feedback from. Civility Buddies, which I think is a good idea.
Sorry, Alex. I do run on, don't I? I know you probably don't agree with a lot of what I've said, but I've offered you my honest opinions, and I hope you'll respect my beliefs.
Peace.
Posted by SLS on September 16, 2006, at 1:38:47
In reply to No you don't but that's ok. » Racer, posted by zazenducky on September 15, 2006, at 21:47:36
Hi.
I don't like to post adversarial material to another poster while they are being blocked, but this is rather benign I think.
> I think it is mean to gang up on Lou.
It is.
> So Bob can come rescue his deputy girls and you can all bond over your poor innocent victimhood.
This is pretty mean, too.
On another note.
It seems that my post is the one that set you off.
It was a pretty stupid one at that.
Why was that?
- Scott
Posted by gardenergirl on September 16, 2006, at 1:56:42
In reply to Re: As you wish. Blocked » gardenergirl, posted by alexandra_k on September 15, 2006, at 23:55:18
Posted by NikkiT2 on September 16, 2006, at 1:58:07
In reply to Re: As you wish. Blocked » gardenergirl, posted by alexandra_k on September 15, 2006, at 23:55:18
Zazenduck,
As I presume you will be reading this.
When one is accused, and accused and accused.. *constantly*, one starts to feel rather weary and one snaps.
That is something I think you will understand, but feel free to vilify in the process.
ps - hen yu return, please do not post to me. I hadn't realised you had such a low opinion of me. I now do. Thankyou
Posted by SLS on September 16, 2006, at 2:42:32
In reply to zazenduck, posted by NikkiT2 on September 16, 2006, at 1:58:07
> ps - hen yu return, please do not post to me. I hadn't realised you had such a low opinion of me. I now do. Thankyou
You may need to formalize your request.
At this point, I am not sure how administration would prefer to see a request formatted, so you might want to ask.
Anyway, Nikki, I'm glad to see you, and hope that you will participate on some of the other boards.
- Scott
Posted by alexandra_k on September 16, 2006, at 3:18:17
In reply to Re: please be civil » notfred » alexandra_k, posted by Dr. Bob on September 16, 2006, at 0:42:57
what i said...
wasn't well done at all.
i'm sorry.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 16, 2006, at 3:24:00
In reply to Re: you really believe this? » alexandra_k, posted by Racer on September 16, 2006, at 1:01:23
> anyone who's been here for a while knows that there are limits in place on behavior
i agree.
> and that posting while highly emotional may lead to breaking those rules.
okay. but sometimes people get blocked when they aren't highly emotional... don't they?
> Does that mean that I agree with every decision made by Dr Bob or the Deputies? Of course not!
so sometimes... blocks aren't 'earned'?
> It does mean, though, that I think that Dr Bob can be in charge, because it's his clubhouse. One of the priviledges of ownership.
i guess.
but i guess i get to thinking about how people have followed great leaders in history because it is their 'clubhouse' or country or whatever and with a little hindsight...i think it is important to critique otherwise... well... i'm not sure that the absense of critique is for the good of the group. if you don't question and don't consider possible improvements then... well... i don't see how that is for the good of the group. surely... babble isn't perfect.
> I get the support I need here
that is good :-)
> -- and I am in favor of whatever allows a group this large to coexist with a modicum of peace.
though it is an empirical matter whether the current rules achieve the best trade-off of benefit to harm...
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