![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 38 to 62 of 129. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 23, 2001, at 23:53:59
In reply to Re: Cost to have this site hosted., posted by ksvt on February 23, 2001, at 12:16:40
> > Perhaps you've already given us this information and I missed it, but how much do you really need to raise so that the site can continue to operate effectively and so you do not have to expend any of your own monies? This might help us analyze the best way to raise the funds.
It's now $300/month to have this site (800 MB) hosted. Something that's starting to become an issue is, more popular = bigger = more expensive...
Bob
Posted by ksvt on February 24, 2001, at 20:52:15
In reply to Re: Cost to have this site hosted., posted by Dr. Bob on February 23, 2001, at 23:53:59
> > >Is it possible to make a donation to the University of Chicago with the donation to be earmarked for the support of the PB site? A donation as opposed to a user fee would be tax deductible. K
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 25, 2001, at 12:24:32
In reply to Re: Cost to have this site hosted. » Dr. Bob, posted by ksvt on February 24, 2001, at 20:52:15
>Is it possible to make a donation to the University of Chicago with the donation to be earmarked for the support of the PB site? A donation as opposed to a user fee would be tax deductible.
It sure is!
http://www.dr-bob.org/support.html
Bob
PS: I guess those "Support" links are in fact too little...
Posted by JahL on February 25, 2001, at 15:27:31
In reply to Re: donations, posted by Dr. Bob on February 25, 2001, at 12:24:32
> PS: I guess those "Support" links are in fact too little...They are. I'd never noticed them.
Jah.
Posted by Lorraine on February 27, 2001, at 16:09:41
In reply to Re: advertising, posted by Dr. Bob on February 22, 2001, at 2:31:49
> A "traditional" campaign wouldn't selectively target advertisers? In fact, Psycho-Babble hit 855,628 last month:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/stats.html
>
> So maybe we wouldn't count as small anymore... What could we get for that many impressions per month? If ad tracking software can be simple, that's good...OK. Let me look into this.
>
> I've felt uncomfortable about soliciting, which is why the Books (Amazon) and Support (donations) links aren't more prominent. Maybe it's something I just need to get over?Yes, I think "get over" would be good :-) Is the Amazon and other affiliates a viable alternative--could it be grown in terms of revenues to make it worth while? Also the Support thing, I would definately do. Maybe I can provide you some examples of both done "with restraint".
Also--did you look into web hosting reduced or free due to your "charitable" service? Is this worth pursuing? (Of the $300, what % of web hosting charges?)
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 27, 2001, at 17:45:24
In reply to Re: advertising, posted by Lorraine on February 27, 2001, at 16:09:41
> > So maybe we wouldn't count as small anymore... What could we get for that many impressions per month? If ad tracking software can be simple, that's good...
>
> OK. Let me look into this.Fantastic, that would be such a help!
> > I've felt uncomfortable about soliciting... Maybe it's something I just need to get over?
>
> Yes, I think "get over" would be good :-)OK, I'll try... :-)
> Is the Amazon and other affiliates a viable alternative--could it be grown in terms of revenues to make it worth while? Also the Support thing, I would definately do. Maybe I can provide you some examples of both done "with restraint".
I'd appreciate some restrained examples, thanks. The Amazon thing I did because it was such a neat idea, but I'm not sure it would make sense to try to be more of a store...
> Also--did you look into web hosting reduced or free due to your "charitable" service? Is this worth pursuing? (Of the $300, what % of web hosting charges?)
I asked the last time I upgraded, and they ignored the question. :-) 100% of the $300 is for web hosting, we just keep growing and growing...
Bob
Posted by Lorraine on March 17, 2001, at 16:03:09
In reply to Re: advertising, posted by Dr. Bob on February 27, 2001, at 17:45:24
OK. I need to just start pulling out pieces of information and get started here...
Advertising. Although this sounds easy, I think it's not. For one thing, the bottom has fallen out of the market and a lot of dot.com, including those involved with advertising, have gone belly up. Ad rates that applied a year ago have dropped substantially and are still on the down slide. A lot of the companies that could service you are slow pay or no pay, with the lights barely on. On top of that a lot of the ad vendors exclude "chat rooms, message boards" etc. For example, item 13 on Ad-Ups application states: "13. Will the ads appear only on subject-focused, content pages of your website (ie, you understand that ads are NOT allowed on chat, email, forum, BBS, or message board pages)?" (http://www.ad-up.com/new/adup_ws_mail.html)
If you want a flavor of what's going on generally, look at Adbility, which reviews ad reps and so forth. http://www.adbility.com/show.asp?cat_id=168
Their reviews are riddled with words like "light are (barely) on" or "the CEO has left the building". Most of the companies noted on their list do not provide "requirement" information unless you fill out a form specifying the particulars. I suspect the "no message boards" rule may be wide spread, but there is no way to know without asking each company.I found a good article on Affilate Marketing for Non-Profits. http://www.clickz.com/article/cz.3061.html
This might be a viable approach. You could use igive and some of the other affilation programs. This does not seem out of line with what you are trying to do here in terms of tone. You could also sign up as a charity on some of the charitable giving organization like GuideStar. Are you incorporated as a nonprofit? Do you file tax returns on Psycho-Babble?An example of a nonprofit that has all of the donation angles wired is Make a Wish foundation. Check out their approach: http://www.wish.org/home/frame_give.htm
I am finding a lot of info on nonprofit fund raising on line and so forth. I guess I am leaning toward going the nonprofit route, but this could entail incorporating as a nonprofit and filing tax returns. I don't know how you feel about this. I could help (I'm a lawyer, but I've never filed for nonprofit incorporation...still I could figure it out. There would be cost involved though probably--incorporation fees charged by the state, filing fees by the agencies located near Sacramento.) We could also try to find a company that would host your site for free. (I think this might be promising). Either way we go, there is lots of work to be done. That is why I want to get a feel for your views before I go further. We are at the fork. Nonprofit or commercial approach? Let me know.
> > > I've felt uncomfortable about soliciting... Maybe it's something I just need to get over?
> >
> > Yes, I think "get over" would be good :-)
>
> OK, I'll try... :-)
>
> > Is the Amazon and other affiliates a viable alternative--could it be grown in terms of revenues to make it worth while? Also the Support thing, I would definately do. Maybe I can provide you some examples of both done "with restraint".
>
> I'd appreciate some restrained examples, thanks. The Amazon thing I did because it was such a neat idea, but I'm not sure it would make sense to try to be more of a store...
>
> > Also--did you look into web hosting reduced or free due to your "charitable" service? Is this worth pursuing? (Of the $300, what % of web hosting charges?)
>
> I asked the last time I upgraded, and they ignored the question. :-) 100% of the $300 is for web hosting, we just keep growing and growing...
>
> Bob
Posted by Lorraine on March 17, 2001, at 21:10:01
In reply to Re: advertising, posted by Lorraine on March 17, 2001, at 16:03:09
Bob:
I think you should try to solve this problem the simplest way possible. I don't think that charitable corporation grant/funding or mall listing approaches are easy because you would need to incorporate as a non-profit, file with the IRS for 503b status, and file tax returns as well as annual filings to update all of this. Lots of administrative hassel and some costs (probably around $1,000 to $2,000) to get it all going. Why bother?
All of your costs come from web hosting charges. Let's cut those. Go to budgetweb.com and input your needs. It will search it's database for virtual web hosting sites that meet your needs. When I did an open ended search I found 4 web hosters that provided unlimited space with monthly charges ranging between approximately $15-30. The set up charges ranges from $10 to $60. Other sites provide space between 1000 MG and 99999 MG for comparable rates. Lots more would need to be known. For instance, is there an access or hit charge. This can be specified as no in your selection process for the search. The site provides tons of info on the web hosters in the footnotes. The quality of the service is not provided and we would need to research this separately. Please let me know if this is a viable option. It clearly is the cleanest approach to reducing the over-head for the site. It should be augment with other approaches which I will set forth in another message. (I've lost 3 postings so I'm doing this dribble by drabble, if you don't mind)
Posted by Lorraine on March 17, 2001, at 21:22:47
In reply to Re: advertising, posted by Lorraine on March 17, 2001, at 21:10:01
In addition to reducing the web hosting costs if feasible, you should display your affiliation with Amazon more prominently and add one or two more affiliations--maybe CDnow or Pets.com or use the affiliation matching service of beFree.com. Take a look at Dr. Grohol's Psych Central layout for increasing the prominance of the affiliations (note also his banner ad and the gift store that he has listed there.) http://psychcentral.com/resources/Depression/Support_Groups/
You should display your contribution page more prominantly. Here's an example of a contributions page that might appeal to you:
http://www.ccid.org/funding.htm
A corporate sponsor is a good idea for the long term. It would take some time to identify approaprate sponsors and solicite them.
Here is a discrete corporate sponsors page:A good interim step would be for you to make a page soliciting corporate sponsors. Here is an example of one:
http://www.tsworldofdesign.com/archives/ratecard.htm
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 22, 2001, at 2:53:39
In reply to Re: advertising Part III, posted by Lorraine on March 17, 2001, at 21:22:47
> Advertising. Although this sounds easy, I think it's not. For one thing, the bottom has fallen out of the market and a lot of dot.com, including those involved with advertising, have gone belly up... On top of that a lot of the ad vendors exclude "chat rooms, message boards" etc...
That surprised me, that they would they exclude sites like this. So I took a look. One thing they say is:
> > These policies will actually help you maximize the number of paid, unique impressions (a single view from one user which result in better click-through rates) per site... advertisers do not like poorly performing sites (which can sometimes caused by sites that place ads on pages where multiple views of the same ad by the same user are common)
If this is common, then standard banner ads aren't going to fly here. But wouldn't you think the absolute number of click-throughs would be more important than the click-through rate? :-(
> I found a good article on Affilate Marketing for Non-Profits. http://www.clickz.com/article/cz.3061.html
> This might be a viable approach. You could use igive and some of the other affilation programs. This does not seem out of line with what you are trying to do here in terms of tone.> > Of the giving malls, iGive.com is perhaps the best known. Started in 1997, iGive.com enables consumers to shop from about 240 merchants while directing from 0.4 percent to 12 percent of every purchase to more than 13,000 causes. Most of the merchants are affiliate marketing stalwarts, from Art.com and Amazon.com to Zones.com and Zany Brainy. Since its inception, iGive.com reports raising just more than $800,000 for charities, of which $310,032.69 came in 2000.
OK, let's give iGive a try.
> An example of a nonprofit that has all of the donation angles wired is Make a Wish foundation. Check out their approach: http://www.wish.org/home/frame_give.htm
I'm not sure I want to go *that* far! :-)
> I am finding a lot of info on nonprofit fund raising on line and so forth. I guess I am leaning toward going the nonprofit route, but this could entail incorporating as a nonprofit and filing tax returns. I don't know how you feel about this. I could help (I'm a lawyer, but I've never filed for nonprofit incorporation...still I could figure it out. There would be cost involved though probably--incorporation fees charged by the state, filing fees by the agencies located near Sacramento.)
If that's what it takes, that's what it takes...
> All of your costs come from web hosting charges. Let's cut those.
Well, yes and no. This also takes a lot of my time. Ideally, the site would also generate funds that could pay for my time, either by going to my department or directly to me. That would make my life a lot more sane...
> Go to budgetweb.com and input your needs. It will search it's database for virtual web hosting sites that meet your needs.
That was interesting, thanks. I did a search, and for 800 MB, I found 25 less expensive services. Has anyone heard of any of these?
DommelNetsolutions ($22.00)
Superior Hosting
HostGenie
1-877-Site.Com
Saturn Services
Zapgold.com
Century-Host
OChosting.com
1 Web Please
Digitalsea.net
DTS-NET
Jumpline
Hostview.com
Our Virtual Mall And Web Hosting
WebWrite Productions
Schogini Systems
Maikon
HiChina.com
Dreamhost Strictly Business
wantsomegetsome.net (!)
WestHost
Computer Solutions International
IIC Internet Services
Addr.com
Christian Site Hosting.com ($273.28)I looked at the first one, and it's in Belgium! I wonder if there are advantages to being offshore... :-)
> In addition to reducing the web hosting costs if feasible, you should display your affiliation with Amazon more prominently and add one or two more affiliations--maybe CDnow or Pets.com or use the affiliation matching service of beFree.com.
Hmm, more prominent affiliations... I don't want to turn into a huckster... Plus what do CDs or pets have to do with mental health? Well, as an experiment, I've added Amazon and iGive to this main page, what do you think?
Thanks for all your work! :-)
Bob
Posted by allisonm on March 22, 2001, at 10:39:53
In reply to Re: advertising, posted by Dr. Bob on March 22, 2001, at 2:53:39
> >Well, as an experiment, I've added Amazon and iGive to this main page, what do you think?< <The flashing/changing message is a wee bit annoying, but it doesn't bother me too much. How much $$ do you think it might generate?
Allison
Posted by Lorraine on March 22, 2001, at 13:46:55
In reply to Re: advertising, posted by Dr. Bob on March 22, 2001, at 2:53:39
Bob: I threw out a lot of ideas in the last 3 emails that I sent. Maybe too many and I'd like for us to get a bit more focused before we go forward.
Let's define our goals. As I see them, they are:
First: to cover the cost of the site so that you are not out-of-pocket
Second: to reimburse you for the time you put in to administer the site--This is time you could otherwise be putting into your practice so this makes sense even in the non-profit context. (The site is also your "calling card" so to speak and hopefully enhances your reputation and client base.)
The approach that I would advocate would be (and this is in the order of ease):
First: Redesign the site (slightly) to:
1. Make the contribution solicitation more prominant
2. Make the affiliation with Amazon more prominent (Down the line we can add different affiliations that you feel comfortable with later after researching the available options and determining your comfort level. I would think you could do at least 2 and possibly 3 without seeming to be the huckster. (By the way, music IS a mood enhancer. And some people only achieve a full remission with a pet. LOL).
3. Create a page soliciting a sponsor.
Second: Explore moving the site to another host provider. (This is going to require a fair amount of research. I have created a spreadsheet of the potential host providers. My list ends up being different than yours. I'm not sure why, but you should take a look at the spreadsheet. If you give me your email address, I'll attach it. I assume I can't attach it through the site. Also you mentioned that you are concerned about this eating into your time. Is there anyway that others could help with this? Do we have any members who have an expertise in technology that could help either evaluate the potential hosts or help in the transition itself? Maybe you need a page on the site noting volunteer needs and soliciting them from the members? )
Third: Actively start seeking a sponsor for the site. (I'm not convinced you can't get an advertiser--look at Dr. Grohol's Psych Central--he has one. Do we know him well enough to ask how he went about this? Do we have anyone on the board with an expertise in media placement? A sponsor would be ideal because it would accomplish your goals without the crassness you so distain :-)
As I see it, this approach would increase revenues modestly from steps 1 and 2. Step 4 would lower your costs substantially so that the combined impact of steps 1,2 and 4 will be a break-even in terms of cash outflow. Covering the cost of your time on the site would be the icing on the cake covered by obtaining a sponsor.
Going the full non-profit route, incorporating, seeking IRS status, maintaining these filings, and using services like iGive I think would be a major undertaking. (It would take a lot of time and work before we know if it will work.) I know that I have vacillated on this, but it takes time for things to sink in and perculate towards a solution for me.
Tell me what you think of this approach.
Posted by Noa on March 22, 2001, at 17:22:25
In reply to Re: advertising, posted by Dr. Bob on March 22, 2001, at 2:53:39
I am slow sometimes, so I don't know how long it has been here, but I just noticed the amazon ad above. It isn't that intrusive. Did you have a say in what it would look like?
I wouldn't want to see a lot of ads, but so far it seems fine.
Posted by Lorraine on March 22, 2001, at 19:45:55
In reply to Re: advertising, posted by Noa on March 22, 2001, at 17:22:25
I think they both look fine and looking at iGive's requirements, its clear that you don't have to be a 501 tax corporation to use it. (I had assumed you did because I believe Guide Star requires it. Glad I was wrong.) Good for you for making the changes quickly. I might change the Amazon link for your books link, but then again, maybe not.
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 22, 2001, at 22:43:54
In reply to Re: advertising, posted by Lorraine on March 22, 2001, at 19:45:55
> > Well, as an experiment, I've added Amazon and iGive to this main page, what do you think?
>
> The flashing/changing message is a wee bit annoying, but it doesn't bother me too much. How much $$ do you think it might generate?I'm ambivalent about the animation, too. Maybe I'll try something static, instead... I guess how much it generates depends on how many people sign up and how much they buy?
--------
> First: Redesign the site (slightly)
OK, we're kind of trying that out now...
> Second: Explore moving the site to another host provider. (I have created a spreadsheet of the potential host providers. My list ends up being different than yours. If you give me your email address, I'll attach it. Also you mentioned that you are concerned about this eating into your time. Is there anyway that others could help with this? Do we have any members who have an expertise in technology that could help either evaluate the potential hosts or help in the transition itself? Maybe you need a page on the site noting volunteer needs and soliciting them from the members? )
My list I got from specifying certain features and also adjusting them all to 800 MB. I thought my email address was everywhere :-) but here you go: dr-bob@uchicago.edu
I could ask more prominently for opinions regarding other web hosting services, but we might get what we pay for and saving money here would be a good thing, of course, but wouldn't address the other issue (my time).
> Third: Actively start seeking a sponsor for the site.
Someone else here and I have started thinking about foundation sponsors. Corporate ones? Who's John's sponsor?
> Going the full non-profit route, incorporating, seeking IRS status, maintaining these filings, and using services like iGive I think would be a major undertaking.
I agree, but it might be a good long-term investment...
--------
> I am slow sometimes, so I don't know how long it has been here, but I just noticed the amazon ad above. It isn't that intrusive. Did you have a say in what it would look like?
Just since yesterday. :-) It's not an ad that they're paying for, it's just a logo they offer people in their "associates" program.
--------
> I might change the Amazon link for your books link, but then again, maybe not.
You mean refer people somewhere else for books? Why? I was thinking just the opposite, that CDNOW would be redundant, since Amazon sells those, too. :-)
Bob
Posted by Lorraine on March 23, 2001, at 0:02:01
In reply to Re: advertising, posted by Dr. Bob on March 22, 2001, at 22:43:54
I've sent you the Excel spreadsheet on host providers. It's hard to talk about the differences in our lists--better for you to see them.
Who's John's sponsor?Colonize.com. ("Submit to receive your spree and occasional special offers from Colonize.com. Must be 13 years old and have read the terms and conditions. Our privacy statement outlines our strict guidelines.") Let me noodle around and see if any of the other analogous sites have sponsors. Who do you see as your "competitors"--those with analogous sites?
> I agree, but it might be a good long-term investment...
That's true. Perhaps the thing to do is to go step by step and add additional layers as you need them.
> > I might change the Amazon link for your books link, but then again, maybe not.I was referring to your books link at the top of the page--where you have book reviews that link to Amazon. It's just more subtle. But either way...
Re your time. No doubt it should be part of the plan. The bottom line is the bottom line. You get there by increasing revenues or decreasing costs. I'm suggesting we work both ends of the equation, if feasible.I'm out of town starting Monday for two weeks. So if I seem slow to respond during that period,....
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 23, 2001, at 23:29:57
In reply to Re: advertising, posted by Lorraine on March 23, 2001, at 0:02:01
> I've sent you the Excel spreadsheet on host providers. It's hard to talk about the differences in our lists--better for you to see them.
I bet it has to do with the selection criteria we each used...
> Who's John's sponsor?
>
> Colonize.com.Hmm, never heard of them. They go take over foreign countries, or what? :-)
> Who do you see as your "competitors"--those with analogous sites?
Good question, I don't know, I spend all my time here. What do you think? Babblers have mentioned Tapir, and isn't there a neuroscience board at Harvard?
> > > I might change the Amazon link for your books link, but then again, maybe not.
>
> I was referring to your books link at the top of the page--where you have book reviews that link to Amazon. It's just more subtle. But either way...Sorry, what about that books link at the top of the page?
> The bottom line is the bottom line. You get there by increasing revenues or decreasing costs. I'm suggesting we work both ends of the equation, if feasible.
OK, makes sense...
> I'm out of town starting Monday for two weeks. So if I seem slow to respond during that period,....
No problem, and have a nice break, and thanks for all your work so far!
Bob
Posted by Lorraine on March 24, 2001, at 14:06:50
In reply to Re: advertising, posted by Dr. Bob on March 23, 2001, at 23:29:57
Bob:
When I return from my vacation, I will put together a matrix of competitive or similar organizations and their sponsorships or advertising sources.
In the meantime, if you can review the grid on host providers and let me know your thoughts, we could start moving on the next phase of this--which would be to evaluate which sites look promising. It would be great if we could solicit another volunteer (hopefully with some expertise in that area) to help with the evaluation phase of the host provider part.
Another piece that you might consider is the extent to which you can lay off some of your time commitment to this site on others. For instance, if after reviewing the host providers list, it looks like we could substantially cut the cost of the site without compromising the service provided by the site or increasing the time demands on you, does it make sense to solicite some volunteers in the Chicago area (if location matters) to help with the transition (or is it more trouble than it's worth to use others?) Also, in the day to day administration of the site, are there tasks that you would feel comfortable using volunteers for?
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 24, 2001, at 17:27:35
In reply to Re: advertising, posted by Lorraine on March 24, 2001, at 14:06:50
> Another piece that you might consider is the extent to which you can lay off some of your time commitment to this site on others.
Ah, that might be an issue, I don't think I delegate very well...
> does it make sense to solicite some volunteers in the Chicago area (if location matters) to help with the transition (or is it more trouble than it's worth to use others?)
During this last (first) transition, I made a lot of internal changes that should make it much easier if there should ever be another one. Especially if it's planned!
> Also, in the day to day administration of the site, are there tasks that you would feel comfortable using volunteers for?
Good question. Removing messages that have been posted by mistake? Redirecting those that have been posted to the wrong board? Being the technical help desk? What else do I do?
Bob
Posted by Lorraine on March 24, 2001, at 19:45:03
In reply to Re: advertising, posted by Dr. Bob on March 24, 2001, at 17:27:35
{ Good question. Removing messages that have been posted by mistake? Redirecting those that have been posted to the wrong board? Being the technical help desk? What else do I do?}
One of your most important functions is to police the board and ask people to be civil and banish them from the kingdom if they cannot comply. I don't think that role is delegable tho.
Posted by pat123 on March 24, 2001, at 20:32:42
In reply to Re: advertising, posted by Lorraine on March 24, 2001, at 19:45:03
> One of your most important functions is to police the board and ask people to be civil and banish them from the kingdom if they cannot comply. I don't think that role is delegable tho.
I agree. I was a list owner for some lists 15 yrs
ago. Running a list takes time but I found it hard to remember everything I did to decide what I could farm out to the list assistants. So for one week I kept a list of everything I did. This really helped ID where my time was spent and what things only I could do and what others could help me with.Pat
Posted by allisonm on March 24, 2001, at 22:26:53
In reply to Re: advertising, posted by Lorraine on March 24, 2001, at 19:45:03
Hello all,
Bob suggested I bring this to the PBA board, so for what it's worth...
I have been looking into the chances of obtaining one or more grants from one or more foundations. I work at a university. While I work in public affairs, there are people who work in my office who do this kind of fund-raising for a living and they have been very helpful in making suggestions on soliciting grants. I began by going to the public library and searching their CD Rom database from the Foundation Center, a non-profit group that profiles foundations and tracks their giving histories.
I have gone through about a hundred different profiles and narrowed it down to maybe 30. From those, I narrowed it down to about 15 with the help of my friend in development. I am in the process of gathering information on how to apply for particular grants. Of the 15, 6 of the foundations that look most promising give to groups that are furthering treatment of mental health, or running mental health support groups, or are focused mostly on depression and only give to groups in Illinois or the Chicagoland area. Three others are nationally focused with giving directed toward mental health services, depression treatment/support/information. There are two that are very technology oriented (one phone company and one cell phone company) that give to health-related fields that make use of technology such as the internet to deliver their services. There are a couple that are very mental-health focused, but give to other demographic areas. It might be possible to convince these groups that PB serves those demographics.
I have discussed with Bob several things.
-- he needs money now to pay for the hosting.
-- he doesn't want hardware because maintainence is a big issue
-- being compensated somehow for the time he spends is important, as well as having funds for other costs such as conferencesI have discussed with my friend the feasibility of funding PB. We have talked about whether it would be better to apply for funding as an entity that is part of the University of Chicago or whether to apply as a separate non-profit entity. The upside of applying as a part of UC is that the university has a long history where PB has been in existence for a few years. On the other hand, the number of years that PB has been in existence is significant considering the newness of the medium.
We have discussed the possibility of starting an endowment that would generate interest that would pay for the hosting of the site and other expenses. However, if it were connected to the university, the money would always stay there no matter if Bob left the institution and took PB with him. If Bob were to form an independent 501(c)(3), he could keep monies in an account that could act as an endowment -- skimming just a small percentage of the interest every year. It also might be possible to raise enough money to act as an endowment, but have Bob keep it in a university account the way he does now. However, he might have to discuss this arrangement with the university. If he were to use this set-up, all of the monies would be at his disposal and if he ever chooses to leave the university, he could spend it down where a real endowment could not be touched or moved.
We calculated at one point how much endowment we would need to finance with 6% of the interest the current cost of hosting the site: we'd need $66,000. Some foundations give only to endowments; others say straight out that they don't fund endowments, capital campaigns, or annual funds. Some give money mostly for operating costs. However, few foundations are interested in giving money to a cause that's going to need it again next year. They want to see some tangible solution that an organization is working toward that will not require annual funding.
The lastest idea we have come up with is to solicit bridging money to pay for current hosting costs while we solicit donations from the PB community to build an endowment or a fund that would function as an endowment. We think it's important to show foundations that those using PB believe in it enough that they would be willing to help finance its continuance either through donations or through membership. Bob has been considering memberships for awhile. If we get bridging funds, it might give us enough of a relationship with a foundation to go back later and ask for money for the endowment/fund. Of course, we can solicit many foundations, tailoring our letter to fit their giving histories.
I have been pretty busy at work the last couple of weeks and have not gotten as far on writing letters as I had hoped. Also, Bob has given me a great list of the largest corporations in Chicagoland that I will investigate to see whether they have foundations connected to them and what the giving histories are.
That's where I am right now. Happy to discuss.
Allison
Posted by ShelliR on March 24, 2001, at 23:33:08
In reply to foundation grants, posted by allisonm on March 24, 2001, at 22:26:53
Hi Allison. Thanks for all the work you are putting into this. There's one thing (big thing) that I don't understand. Dr. Bob said it cost him $275 a month to pay hosting. So that's 3,300 per year. What is the $66,000 dollars referring to?
Sorry if this is a really dumb question, but I got lost. shelli
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 25, 2001, at 0:50:50
In reply to Re: advertising, posted by pat123 on March 24, 2001, at 20:32:42
> Running a list takes time but I found it hard to remember everything I did to decide what I could farm out to the list assistants. So for one week I kept a list of everything I did. This really helped ID where my time was spent and what things only I could do and what others could help me with.
And what was it others could help you with, do you remember?
Bob
Posted by stjames on March 25, 2001, at 1:34:34
In reply to Re: advertising, posted by Dr. Bob on March 22, 2001, at 2:53:39
That was interesting, thanks. I did a search, and for 800 MB, I found 25 less expensive services. Has anyone heard of any of these?
DommelNetsolutions ($22.00)
Superior Hosting
HostGenie
1-877-Site.Com
Saturn Services
Zapgold.com
Century-Host
< snip >
wantsomegetsome.net (!)
WestHost
Computer Solutions International
IIC Internet Services
Addr.com
Christian Site Hosting.com ($273.28)James here.....
OK. I will come out of deep lurkdom to give my .02
on this one. Presently Dr Bob is on Viero, they are my first choice, they are the best USA hosting people with their own backbone. This costs. So I like the idea of moving to a cheaper
host but not the cheapest. Take a look at http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/scams/bhcom.htm
The San Fernando Valley Folklore Society's
Urban Legends Reference Pages, the da facto plaace to go to debug internet bs. Their experiences with a cheapie hosting service are
true for most. At $22.00 they say you get unlimited bandwidth but they have to cram so many
sites on one server to make money it does not happen.I would like to help by doing an analysis on some of these providers. The new job has new toys, one of them runs every min. 24/7 checking a statewide network. There is no reason I cannot also get stats on these provides, over a weeks time. I can check to see if they are up and if services like http, ftp, and dns are up. With some other toys and can do random checks of the server load. The other consideration is how well connected the host is to the internet. Veiro rocks and you pay for it. They have their own backbone and are directly connected to mea-west and mea-east. It is easy to figure out who is better connected. It also helps to host in the country you serve the most pages to. Why make your pages cross the ocean to get to most viewers ?
So, would it be possible to cut that list down some ? Off the top of my head, the $50-100 range
is reasonable; this would offer big savings
and reasonable performance. I can also ask around
about these hosting services; I would also sugest
asking several people who host with the service what they think. Some stats that I did not see on your page that would be helpful to know are total hits and bandwidth (megabytes/gigabytes a month)
for the last 3 months. (if the all time high is not in the last 3 months, that number is helpful).So, if you would like, send me a list to work from. My e-mail addy is the same.
James
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