Posted by sar on October 2, 2001, at 22:04:24
In reply to Re: more - Sar, posted by Wendy B. on October 2, 2001, at 15:40:24
> > dear wendy,
> >
> > you are not, by any means, an ass.
>
>
> oh ho ho... you're just sayin' that, sweetheart.nah, babe, just being honest...as usual. :)
> kazoo, on the 'Elvis Presley's Depression' thread, has been invited by Jane D. to come over to this thread to get trashed... i wonder if ol' Jane meant MOI?? (now, i know better than to trash kazoo...)
ooooh! hot-button topic! i doubt Jane meant anyone specific (lots of people begged to differ with me on the WTC topic) But damn, Wendy versus Kazoo...ding ding ding!!!!!
> i have been around a little longer (jane's or susan's or kk's point well taken here). remember watching the vietnam war on tv as a child. the first television war. remember when reagan and the other anti-russian/ anti-commies sent our troops over to afghanistan, and supported the guys who are now the bad guys... see how easy it is for us to switch back and forth, depending on our supposed 'national interests'?
>
> so, sorry. but i have to say, i am a little tired of hearing the 20-somethings telling us 'old folks': "people don't realize why so many people all over the world hate us americans." uhhhh... yes, we do. we remember peace marches. we remember "No Nukes." we remember when the U.S. wouldn't even allow yassir arafat into the country, much less allow him to come to a table to negotiate. we remember lebanon. we remember the gaza strip. we remember glaznost. we remember the fall of the berlin wall. we remember a lot of why the americans are hated and feared. we know we didn't do it, but we never had the political clout to even elect jimmy carter a 2nd time. reagan did a lot of damage. it's a long road back. clinton spent his last days as president trying to put the middle east peace process back on track... and now we get the right telling us he decimated the CIA, and that's why we didn't see the suicide hijackers coming in under the radar.... jesus...
see, that's stuff i *don't* know about. i can understand your frustration at the twentysomethings spewing their spleens all over america when our most difficult patriotic choice has been what, whether to buy the red shirt or the blue one at the Gap??? shite. i don't mean any disrespect to anyone, i'm just trying to understand through discussion. most of the twentysomething folks i know are anti-american in the sense that we hate the terrible *exploitation* of this country. WAL-MART sums up 10% of it in 2 syllables.
> > your over-ability to empathize is a gift....i have to burn my hands on the stove over and over again to teach mysel a lesson and to learn from others. i can only empathize with what i know.
>
> i think it's a trap, to over-empathize. it makes everyone else's pain a thing to experience and comment on and get high from. i think some middle ground would be good. that's what i keep trying for: some middle ground, neither too far over the top, nor too far under... i used to be like you... working the excesses and the borders of everything, pushing others to get pissed off with me, just for discussion's sake. making my parents exasperated with me, because that was the only way (i thought) i could get their attention. maybe it was true... arguing just to argue, because without it there would have been... what? nothing, i thought.i really didn't mean to piss anyone off. i really didn't think anyone would respond to such a blase message, and i was drunk at the time anyway, i was just being brutally honest. i wish i could empathize more; i think the ability to empatize takes lotrs of time/travel/talk/doing/thinking and most of yall have 20 years on me. tonight i gave a foot massage to my friend who slit her wrists last week and was released from the hospital today. i can give her these little things, books and massages and hugs, but i don't understand what's going on in NYC. i can *see* her anhedonia and her pain, and now the bandages.
maybe i'm not good with broad global concepts. :)
> > as far as things being better left unsaid, i don't agree with that--not for myself, anyway.
>
> i didn't say everything was better left unsaid, just the things that might hurt someone else. truth-telling is just a ruse, when it's said to hurt someone else. you have to know your own motives. or try to. i actually waited a while to answer your first message, but i was too upset to not send anything. and see? we're still ok, we can still talk.
one of the things i've discussed with my psychs (i don't have one right now) is that i don't understand how i could possibly affect other people--my mind does *not* comprehend how i might inspire love, hate, agitation, affection, curiosity, what-have-you, in others. mostly i expect people to ignore me and hate me for no reason (thats how i was raised up :) so i don't know when i'm being provocative.
> my rebel-like abrasiveness? ouch! anything else you want to say on the topic? really... i want to know what i've posted that makes you say that. i always thought if i didn't have something supportive to say, i didn't post anything. thought i was nice to people, maybe i haven't been?...
yow!~ see, i didn't think that would hurt you! i just envision you as this rebel-like hipster easily riled up by causes close to her heart...that was more of a compliment than anything...i like it when people are passionate about things they truly believe in, all i meant was that you weren't going to soft-pedal your opinion or placate me or stay out of the thread; my comment was simply out of admiration of your honesty. *your* original post was kinda abrasive but i don't mind that, be how you are, i don't like falsity for the sake of being "supportive" or whatever...everyones gifts are different, we riled each other up and got a good venting out of it...
you've been so supportive of me in the past bothers me that we differ so greatly on this one topic, but i'm hoping we can chalk it up to--differences in personality? age? proximity?
>
>
> probably all three. you have always been very responsive to my anguished posts. and funny and controversial to read, that's why i like you. so we'll be alright?i don't know if i've ever seen an "anguished" post from you! that you brought my "headache" one to the attention of the board months ago really touched me, and i don't think i'll ever forget that. it was like a hand reaching out to one waving up from the water...
i had no idea i was controversial...
of course we're awright!
> (btw - what's kb? something obvious, probably.)
Kind Bud.
(puns, don't you love 'em? smoker or not, i think it's the cutest phrase...)
sar
poster:sar
thread:11763
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20010927/msgs/12028.html