Posted by Tamar on June 19, 2005, at 15:01:19
In reply to Re: Daisy, how are you today?, posted by daisym on June 18, 2005, at 23:58:41
> <<<<I think the dutiful daughter believes that if she can meet her parents expectations and their needs, she will win their approval and keep their love. I think she is the buffer between the "me" and my parents. The problem is, I hate her. She basically cowtows to them and goes to great lengths to keep them happy. Both mom and dad, but more dad. But I also need her, because I don't trust that I can handle their disappointment or disapproval. Besides, I don't know who I am, so I need this front to not feel naked and raw with them.
Ah, this makes sense. Thanks. Do you think the dutiful daughter is *you* is the same sort of way that little daisy is you? Or is she someone you perform, like an actor in a role? I know I can perform ‘respectable wife and mother’ but that person is a very surface version of me. She’s useful for going to church and for being around elderly relatives who would have trouble dealing with lewd-and-ribald Tamar. But maybe when you’re talking about the relationship with your parents it’s harder to separate being from performing.
Do you hate the dutiful daughter partly because despite her efforts she never seems to win the approval and love she hopes for?
> >>>>>>Having said that, I think we need to forgive ourselves somehow. It’s so easy to blame ourselves and to believe we invited abuse. I think that coming to believe it truly wasn’t our fault is a kind of self-forgiveness. (And, in my case, forgiving my body for betraying me.)
>
> <<<<<Intellectually I believe this. I know it wasn't my fault. But I keep looking for "why?" and examining my ability to have been seductive or "bad" in some way. I know you know what I mean.Yes, I do know what you mean. And intellectually I know that there are answers to the question of why, and that the answers have nothing to do with me. The reasons why are all about the person or persons who did the abusing. My role as victim was purely a matter of being there; the reason the abuse was thought of and acted upon had nothing to do with me. I know this. But feeling it to be true is another mater.
> I'm not sure what you mean about forgiving your body for betraying you...is it that you had a response or is that you developed? I struggle with this too.
Wow – I hadn’t really thought of the developing aspect of it as betrayal. Now that makes sense! Thank you, daisy. I’ll think about that.
> We've talked about it a bunch of times in therapy. My therapist is very blunt - "the body responds to stimulation. Even little kids feel pleasure, which is why they masterbate. The hardest thing to unravel is the braid of terror and pleasure that comes from this kind of abuse." I hate that my memories include body sensations. It is disturbing and confusing.
I hate it too. I understand that bodies respond and that it’s not something we’ve done wrong, and it doesn't indicate that we somehow wanted it. But it is so very disturbing. And disturbing also to find it being carried into the present where it’s entirely unwelcome.
> Thank you for saying you aren't sorry you asked. I still think I need to keep apologizing.
I really don’t see that there’s any reason to apologize. Support on Babble is such a mutual thing! What you’ve said in your response to me has really given me some things to think about. So thank you for that.
Something else I thought about… you were talking about your therapist in your post to jazzy: ‘it seems extraordinary that he would put himself out for me so much. (I know, I know, I pay him but...)’. And I just wanted to mention that it’s about more than the money. I think for many therapists (including yours) it’s a vocation. It’s his purpose in life. So I think his concern for you isn’t just because you pay him. It’s about who he is rather than merely what he does. It’s profound and personal.
What did you decide to do today?
(((((daisy)))))
poster:Tamar
thread:514967
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20050615/msgs/515551.html