Posted by Lou Pilder on December 16, 2007, at 19:12:28
In reply to Lou's reply to Sigismund-dth » Sigismund, posted by Lou Pilder on December 14, 2007, at 12:52:03
> > I think, Lou, I was looking at it the other way round......that certain thoughts, but more particularly words spoken, can help one escape mental pain, and that is where the Eliot quote came in. Except that for Eliot, the fire is restorative and refining, whereas I was thinking about finding the right words to avoid pain. So I used the metaphor of fire quite differently.
> >
> > The problem with finding the right words to escape mental pain is, in my experience, that such words are unexpected and frequently provocative. This could easily be a reflection of the ignorance in which I am mired, of course.
> >
> > Sometimes though, I do it. I actually manage to find the right words. When this happens it feels funny and anarchic, with psychological resonances.
> >
> > It seems to be related to staying close to the thread of lived experience. This is why I find the question 'How are you?' so (needlessly?) confronting. The thread of lived experience perhaps does not like to be boxed in? This seems to be close to the question of what we find amusing, because that comes from somewhere that our conscious minds do not control. But our conscious minds can apprehend the thread and not violate it, and if they succeed in doing that we may escape pain.
> >
> > I wish I could be more lucid.
> >
> > Eliot himself experienced chronic depersonalisation, I feel sure.
> >
> > I heard about these people who had taken some LSD. They'd planned to make a meal, but their plans were befuddled by the drug. Eventually one says to the other with great effort. "I've got an idea. We'll open this tin with this tin opener and put the contents in the saucepan and heat it up on the camp stove." And the other bloke says "You see, that's where you go wrong. As soon as you have an idea, you're wrong."
> >
> > That's the sort of thing I mean, if it makes any sense.
>
> Sigismund,
> You wrote,[...certain thoghts...words...help escape mental pain...fire is restorative and refining...]
> The topic here is the aspect of suicide and what the bible says or doesn't say about such and heaven and hell and death.
> The bible does define what death is and connects such to The Lake of Fire. This knowlege of such could effect the thinking of a person IMO and have the potential IMO to be restorative and refining.
> It has been revealed to me what death is and I could show from my perspective how this could have the potential IMO to be of great importance to the members of a mental-health community.
> LouSigismund,
The bible describes more than one type of death. So when John penned what is called the book of Revelation, him being a Jew could mean that he used symbols that Jews could know of.
In the book that is called Genesis, Adam and Eve were told by God not to eat of the tree of the knowlege of good and evil or they would die. They ate of the tree and the consequence was death. But they did not die right then. So what is this type of death?
In the book called Isaiah, in chapter 59 verse two, it reads,
[..But your iniquities have separated you from your God...] This separation from God is further described later as a death, a {spiritual} death. A death of the soul. A living death.
Later another writer wrote that one's thinking can put one in a state of spiritual death. The writer who was a Jew named Saul then Paul, wrote that to think in terms of just being an animal and in terms that you are your own sufficiency that does not consider humans to be spiritual creatures, could cause one to be in a state of death. And further, for one to think in terms of being a spiritual creature thinking of spiritual things, to be in a state of life.
Then this one called Jesus of Nazareth, who was a Rabbi, speaking to Jews, said to store up treasures in heaven. And that blessed are those that hunger and thirst for rightiousness. And blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven. If one admints that they are poor in spirit, do they not then recognize a spiritual existance and condition, besides just being flesh and blood? Could not then one go from death to life by having a change in their thinking? For the bible defines this type of death in the book called Romans,[...to be carnally minded is death...].
Lou
poster:Lou Pilder
thread:798827
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20070227/msgs/801185.html