Posted by Lou Pilder on December 8, 2007, at 9:03:31
In reply to Life, the Universe and Everything » Lou Pilder, posted by Sigismund on December 7, 2007, at 20:32:38
> Hey Lou
> I'm no expert on this.
>
> >A. Can only people that are alive have their sins forgiven?
>
> That's the idea.
>
>
> >B. If so, what could they do to have their sins forgiven?
>
> Repent, which (I feel obliged to say) must be a real and heartfelt repentance with appropriate actions resulting.
>
>
> >C. After death, could one have their sins forgiven? If so, how could that be done?
>
> Lou, do you really want me to rehearse these well worn ideas that I myself do not hold?
> Well, here goes....
> Sins are forgiven because the sacrifice of Christ was a suitable offering allowing God to forgive us (don't ask me why this should be so).
> But the process involves repentance before death.
> OTOH, it is clearly not possible for all sins to have been repented of, for many sins must surely be unknown to the perpetrators.
> So in that case, what happens?
> If the sin is (shall we say?) venal, maybe Christ's sacrifice without specific repentance should cover it.
>
>
> >D. Is there faith after death?
>
> I think the Biblical line would have to be that there is faith after death.
> Those in heaven would have it, those in hell would be shown the error of their ways and would be repenting (too late!) there.
> Even those in Purgatory, Limbo and wherever else souls might go should be informed of the new state of affairs.
>
> It is to be expected that we should make God in our image.
> What I find interesting is the development of the idea that God loved us such as to lay down his life for us.
> I'm very much less impressed by the idea of eternal life. To continue with TS Eliot...'I was born, and once was enough'.
>
> But since you've got me going: Constantine theology seems cumbersome, though easy enough to grasp, and perhaps it was some such committee that allowed Revelations into the canon.
>
> I prefer this, from the uncanonical Gospel according to Thomas.
>
> 'Jesus saw children who were being suckled. He said to his disciples: These children who are being suckled are like those who enter the Kingdom. They said to him: Shall we then, being children, enter the Kingdom? Jesus said to them: When you make the two one, and when you make the inner as the outer and the outer as the inner and the above as the below, and when you make the male and the female into a single one, so that the male will not be male and the female not be female, when you make eyes in the place of an eye and a hand in the place of a hand, and a foot in the place of a foot, and an image in the place of an image, then shall you enter the Kingdom.'Sigmimund,
You wrote,[....repent...]
The idea of repentance is pictured in the bible that the Jews use as a cleansing. John, the generally accepted author of the book of Revelation and the book according to John and other books was a Jew and his readers that were Jews could know of what he was writing about. The {Lake of Fire} written about in the book of Revelation is a Jewish symbol connected in a way along with baptism. This {baptism} figures into the biblical revelation concerning {forgivness} which could be intertwined with {repentance} from the Jewish perspective. This same John wrote that his baptizing was with water unto repentance, but that there will be a baptizing with {fire}. Since he was speaking to Jews at that time, the symbol of {baptism with fire} was likely something that Jews could understand. As a Jew, I understnd what is meant and how it relates to {The Lake of Fire} and then how I could explain aspects of this thread in relation to the initiator's post which concerns suicide.
Lou
poster:Lou Pilder
thread:798827
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20070227/msgs/799486.html