Posted by Lou Pilder on October 21, 2012, at 11:08:26
In reply to Re: Lou's response- » Lou Pilder, posted by Dinah on October 21, 2012, at 9:22:11
> I think that at the very least you should stop making blanket statements about all mentally ill people and all medications.
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> It is important for antipsychotics to be used with people who become psychotic who are can be dangerous to themselves or others without medication. Withdrawal had diddly to do with it. My relatives had psychotic breaks far they were ever medicated, and were a danger to themselves, though not (to my knowledge) to others.
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> You say people on medication can be a danger to Jews. I say people who need medication and don't get it are dangerous to themselves and others. I saw their families be destroyed, even if they weren't physically a danger to others. And while that wasn't entirely because of their mental illness, their mental illness did deprive their children of a safe and reliable parent during a difficult time. I saw those same relatives restore their relationships while they were on medication.
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> I appreciate that you warn of the dangers of withdrawal. But that isn't enough to keep your words from potentially causing harm. I think you could potentially harm others by discouraging people who need medication from taking it. How would you feel if even one person who had severe mental illness was discouraged from taking psychotropic drugs, and as a result harmed themselves and others? I know you don't want to hurt others, Lou. But I very strongly believe you could.
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> If you would modify your message somewhat, so that you acknowledge that while psych drugs are overprescribed and can cause harm, it is important for those who do need medication to take it, I wouldn't say anything. If you were to say most of what you say with "unnecessary" in front of "medication", I wouldn't have a problem with it.
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> As my best recent pdoc used to say. "There are side effects from taking medication. There are side effects from not taking medications. It's up to you which side effects you will accept." I'd modify that a bit if someone is a danger to others.
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> I'm using psychosis as an example, because it's psychosis that I saw destroying families. I feel really strongly about that because it has directly had an impact on me. And yet, depression also runs in my family, and suicide from depression. Long before there were any drugs to cure it. A case could be made that your repeated talk about death could cause someone deeply suicidal to believe that their case was hopeless and they were doomed whether or not they took meds, so just as well kill themselves more directly.
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> I think you could harm others, Lou, however little you mean to do so. And I think you harm your own cause as well. People are more likely to take your legitimate points seriously if you aren't talking of death-o-meters. Frankly that made me so angry that thoughts of civility weren't uppermost in my mind. I was angry with you and angry with Bob that this was allowed. It went too far, Lou.
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> I do want to thank you for refraining from labeling me as anti-semitic. My feelings of anger with you stem from your own behavior, not your ethnicity or religion. Thank you for remembering that I like Jewish people, and study Jewish theology, and speak positively of the Jewish faith even in the face of opposition from others.
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> I don't want anyone to hurt you, Lou. I suppose I do want someone to protect the people who read this board from behavior I believe could potentially cause harm to others. So my main problem is with Dr. Bob, I suppose. He could keep you from making these statements on his board, whatever he says.Friends,
Let us see what is really goin' on here. First, I would like to cover the aspect of that Dinah wrote that [...withdrawal had diddly to do with it...].
Now the grammatical structure looking at the context that the statement is in, paints a dfferent picture, my friends. You see, the {it}, in its context, is {the murder of the two children}.
Now here is the statement in it's context and grammatical structure:
[...A woman killed her two kids here in New Orleans the other day. Her family says she's fine {as long as she took her medication}. Two kids are dead and I see Lou making remarks like he makes...].
Now see the part,{as long as she took her medication}.
Now it can be thought that the grammatical structure and the context show that the murder of the two kids was done while the woman was not taking her medication. This is because the statement that she is *fine* {as long as she is taking her medication}. So if she *was* taking her medication, she would be fine. If she would be fine, then the grammatical structure of the statement here could mean that she would have not murdered her two kids. Thearfore, it can be thought that she was in withdrawal, which I have plenty of research studies that show that people in withdrawal can kill themselves and/or others, even commit mass-murder.
You see, there is evidence in the psychiatric community of this that I am wanting people to know here. And those that want to supresss what I need to tell you here can keep you from knowing facts, facts that IMHHHO could mark the difference between you being alive or dead.
So when you read here things about me, remember that I have prohibitions made to me here by Mr. Hsiung that prevent me from even posting my complete response to Dinah here that I think that if I was allowed to do so, lives could be saved.
***Please understand also that I do not accept anecdotal reports as evidence of fact.***
Lou
poster:Lou Pilder
thread:1029274
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20120228/msgs/1029363.html