Posted by Solstice on December 1, 2010, at 0:30:03
In reply to Re: some kind of Elders Council » Solstice, posted by jane d on November 30, 2010, at 16:58:56
Thank you Jane for taking the time & trouble to clear up what I misstated.
> > If I understand it correctly, .... Council members ....would review the situation, and if amongst themselves the majority of them agree that the block was not warranted, they could lift the block.
> Actually, if I recall correctly that was your proposal not Bob's. His only allows the board to lift the block after a minimum time was served - not negate it entirely.I must have interjected some of my own wishful thinking :-)
> > So it's really quite a bit different than the deputy role. If I understand correctly, a chief feature of their role would be to keep Bob and his blocks "in check." He would, in essence, be handing Council the 'last word' on blocks. I don't yet see how Council members would 'draw fire,' since their role is benevolent.
>
> I'm not at all sure that's part of his proposal.Even with the mandatory minimum, the fact that they can lift blocks or shorten blocks without having to clear it through him really is handing over a tremendous amount of power that he has never before reliquished. It really is allowing the community to self-govern to a great extent.
> But even if it is it seems naive to assume the council members will be universally loved.Of course it would be. But as a rule no one is universally loved, regardless of whether or not they hold a Council position. I would sure like to be universally loved. I work hard to be worth loving. But life got much less stressful after I accepted that regardless of what I did, or how many pretzel knots I tied myself into, I will not be loved by everybody. Muffled recently warned that Bob's scanty communication is very frustrating. My verbosity, though, might genuinely be just as frustrating (or annoying) to some. So being universally loved is a goal that will guarantee failure.
> If they lift some blocks but not others they will draw fire from the friends of those they decline to pardon.That's certainly possible, but I don't think it's likely enough to merit being a heavy factor. To begin with, blocks are not as frequent as it sometimes feels. Secondly, Council is a group of people.. not just one person. It would be harder for the friends of an unpardoned poster to know where to aim their fire. Also, the Council members are more emotionally protected because they are part of a group. That protection is the reason I am not in favor of Council having to post individual votes. An unpardoned poster will never know who did, or didn't vote for their reprieve. Perhaps for accountability's sake Bob should be aware of who votes for what, but I think posting that data for everyone would undermine the insulation Council members will need to feel better about serving.
> And they still risk drawing fire from the victims of some of those blocked posters (and yes - some of them do have victims).I suppose I could be wrong, but I have a hard time imagining that individual council members would, in reality, draw the kind of fire you fear here. Deputies had all kinds of stuff thrown at them. But the duties of Council is a far cry from the duties of deputies. Not even on the same planet.
Further.. although I think it's understandable (and even healthy) for the community to run the Council idea through all potential problems, I think it's a mistake for the Community here to shoot the idea down. Babble has been kicking and screaming for self-governance for Ever. And the whole idea of self-governance necessitates members of the community being willing to put the time and energy to serve in leadership roles. The U.S. considers itself self-governed.. and as a result there are roles in government that are filled by those among us who want to pursue careers in government and politics. 'Self governance' without members being willing to lead, serve, and accept the accompanying risks of that would be the equivalent of Somalia. Do we really think we want that? Nothing just 'runs' on its own.. without running amok until the thugs take over.
I think it's important that the Community recognizes that it is wholly unfair to complain about anything Bob does if everyone scurries for their safe caves when an offer is made to create a Council that will hold self-governing powers. If no one is willing to stand up and wear the robe of leadership & service, then it is a ridiculous waste of Bob's time for anyone here to complain about anything he does. And if people here start throwing fire at the Council members who have made the sacrifice to lead and serve, then this Community deserves to be treated like a bunch of little children, including uncivil posters being blocked for however long and using whatever formula is satisfactory to Bob.
Solstice
poster:Solstice
thread:964630
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20101014/msgs/972023.html