Posted by Dr. Bob on July 9, 2009, at 11:52:49
In reply to Re: Dr Bob » Poet, posted by Dinah on July 8, 2009, at 9:49:38
> He was blocked 1 hour and 7 minutes after his posted. I did not see Verne's post until a few days later, and personally, I can't be here all the time as I'm a mom with real life duties.
>
> Are you saying that we should have tried to get him to rephrase/apologize within an hour of his post...before getting blocked?
>
> AvaRegarding having only an hour to respond, I don't think I can add anything to:
> There were a lot of posts from before by verne and you could just see where it was going. If somebody had stepped in and just tried to detour him from getting to this point and maybe offered to help him with whatever was troubling him, maybe it would have helped.
>
> I think that verne was just needing some help. It sucks that now he doesn't have PB to help him.
>
> HyperFocus> We all could think ... about what we did to help Verne after his PBC, knowing, as we do, how much and how likely he is to be blocked-- and how prone he is to say things that may be problematic.
>
> NadezdaRegarding behind here all the time, I didn't mean to imply that every single poster should've done something. But maybe more could've tried? Maybe those who have more of a relationship with him, or particularly dislike seeing others blocked -- and feel willing and able to take a risk?
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> I do wish you would stop expecting us to help others ... not get blocked, we can't always do that effectively or even know how to get around doing it civilly.
>
> rskMaybe it would help to discuss what might be effective and civil ways to help someone avoid a block? I made one suggestion:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20090529/msgs/905410.html
Anybody else?
> I chose to ignore what Verne posted to me, which must put me as part of the community that didn't intervene. ... I guess if this situation occurs again I will risk a PBC and ask directly for an apology or retraction of the statement which would be an intervention.
>
> PoetFYI, I consider not retaliating to be an intervention. Not to imply that you wanted to...
But asking for an apology or retraction could be even more helpful. What about posting an example request? You have plenty of civility buddies here!
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> I would fear, however, that my best efforts might lead to nothing positive, but would potentially open me up to attack, simply for the attempt. Sometimes when one is trying to get a cat out of a tree one gets a faceful of cat!
>
> I guess I need to keep reminding myself that I work with tigers every week and have a houseful of cats. Surely I can deal with a faceful of cat every now and then. :)
>
> Seldom.I can see how there may be anxiety about stepping in. If a poster's been uncivil to someone else, they maybe uncivil to you, too.
Still, if posters approach the cat carefully, each in their own way, and the cat recognizes some of them, and sees how high it is, it may be possible to coax it down.
This is a thoughtful and intelligent group. I have confidence in your ability to find ways to be supportive. Though of course you won't succeed every time. As a last resort:
> The civility guidelines are meant to keep those incidents at a minimum.
>
> DinahWhich might be like the fire department going up into the tree and taking the cat to the pound.
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> As I see it, the block is too help the person or persons hurt by the block, and to help the blockee not escalate something. How exactly does blocking someone for 52 weeks help us here at babble. And how would you ever expect someone would come back after that when they have to learn to deal without the support of Babble for a year and therefore probably doesn't want to be here anymore.
>
> rskBlocks also help Babble by keeping it more civil. I don't necessarily expect someone to come back afterwards. Though they're welcome to. And sometimes they do. What I'd prefer is for them not to be blocked in the first place.
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> I wonder what Dr. Bob thinks an apology would do, if posting behavior does not change. I have been taught that an apology consists of regret, taking responsibility, and making amends (which could include taking care that it doesn't happen again). An apology with the first two but without the third doesn't seem like a good way to promote civility.
Well, it's a start. One step at a time.
> I think it would be far better to have willingness to abide by site guidelines be the means by which people return
>
> DinahI agree, I'm just not sure how I'd assess willingness. It would be a form of assessing intent, which I try to avoid.
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> Does it not make sense then that the posters expect Bob to show compassion and empathy for them?
>
> fayeroeIt's understandable. But it makes more sense for posters to expect compassion and empathy from other posters.
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> Is it possible for you to more encouraging and less blaming in your introduction of this idea?
>
> wouldn't it be equally valid (and perhaps better received) if you expressed distress that the block happened, support for the second poster, thanks to those who tried to help, and a hope that in the future things will turn out differently and the poster will choose to remain part of this terrific community?
>
> DinahThat's a good point. Thanks for expressing that better. It's more positive to look forward than back.
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> I see what I think are empty apologies from Bob. And , of course, I also see a refusal by Bob to consider anything that any of us say about the blocks.
>
> fayeroe> I am unsure as to what the criteria that you use to determine if an apology is empty.
> As to a refusal to consider, my undersyanding of what it means to consider something may be different than yours. Could you post here how you determine if one refuses to consider?
>
> Lou> No, thanks, Lou.
>
> fayeroeIn this case, Lou took a risk and approached the cat. And the cat was civil, but stayed in the tree. It would distress me to have to take the cat back to the pound. Does anybody else feel willing and able to help the cat?
Lou, thank you for trying to help. Fayeroe, thank you for being civil to Lou. Whatever happens, I hope you choose to remain part of this terrific, though sometimes stormy, community.
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> I think a mental health support board is a place where you can go and expect to have an environment where you can feel reasonably safe to post private and personal thoughts.
>
> It may be that my values are out of step with reality or the wishes of the majority here. Perhaps Babble has moved on, and I haven't.
>
> DinahThat's my goal, too. But it's not always clear to me how to get there. I'm adjusting the course I'm taking. I know change can be disruptive. Thank you all for your patience.
Bob
poster:Dr. Bob
thread:905306
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20090707/msgs/905792.html