Posted by Dinah on April 21, 2009, at 8:23:43
In reply to Re: an opportunity » Dr. Bob, posted by raisinb on April 20, 2009, at 21:05:08
I hesitate to post about this, because I may be seen as part of the problem.
But I've done what Dr. Bob suggested many times, with the intent to be supportive of my fellow posters, not to help him. Before I was a deputy I did it. I do it in offline life too.
If I think it will be welcomed, or not make things worse, I still do it.
If a friend, in any situation Babble or not, is getting very upset and is on the path to having consequences that may not be what they would like, I generally try to encourage them to step back and think about what they're doing. I generally try to help them gain distance and perspective, so that they can decide if this is really something that will further their goals. If this is really what they want. If this is, pragmatically speaking, the best way to get to where they wish to go from where they are now.
I'm a pragmatist to my toes.
Even if I think someone is completely justified in how they feel in any given situation, I still think pragmatic concerns are something that it is helpful to consider. I appreciate it when my friends encourage me to do the same.
And if I think that perhaps there is more than one way to look at a situation, I think I'd consider it part of my responsibility as a friend to suggest looking into other possibilities.
To me it appears that this has come to be a discussion about posters encouraging each other to apologize to Dr. Bob. I'm not sure Dr. Bob intended it that way. I'm seeing this as a continuation of some of his previous posts, from maybe a year or so ago?, about posters taking on a larger role in the administration of Babble. In this case, not by policing and reporting, but by defusing and encouraging compliance, peer to peer, poster to poster. I think we do that many times in many situations, in a very civil way. I also think there are limits to how effective that strategy can be, and Dr. Bob might be running into those limits. If the discussion can be broadened a bit away from individual posters and apologies to Dr. Bob, and toward posters taking on some administrative responsibility for encouraging civility as well as reporting incivility, my guess is that some of the misunderstandings on this thread could be minimized. Maybe an agreement in principle could be reached. Something along the lines of "This is something that posters are willing to do and in fact already do in many instances. But there are occasions when posters do not feel this is an appropriate role for other posters, and is best left to Administration." Which is just a suggestion. I don't pretend to understand the dynamics involved well enough to come up with a comprehensive agreement in principle. Perhaps a better statement might be "Posters do not feel it is appropriate for them to take a larger role in administering Babble, and think the top down model is the way to go." Or something entirely different, but of course respectful and civil.
I *do* think that sometimes posters are fully cognizant of the results of their posts, and would not consider other posters urging them to apologize as supportive. I think that posters are trying to convey that to Dr. Bob right now. I do understand that a poster has the right to choose to protest what they see as unjust laws by choosing to do what they are aware will result in a block.
I do wonder, pragmatically, if that is the most helpful path to change. It's been going on for some time, and I haven't seen a lot of change from Dr. Bob in response. In Dr. Bob's position, I don't think I'd be as swayed as I would be by people choosing to stay around and persuade him with logic that changes should be made. I suppose there is the effect on other posters. Is it enough? A few posters have mentioned on this thread that they've received a lot of support for their stance. But the history of protests on Babble would suggest to me that the tactic is not the best route to change Dr. Bob's heart and mind. Which believe it or not, can be changed.
Just my humble opinion, for whatever it's worth. Which in this situation, given my position as deputy, is probably not worth much. I wasn't always deputy, and I'd have said the same then. If that makes any difference whatsoever.
poster:Dinah
thread:888433
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20090302/msgs/891907.html