Posted by alexandra_k on June 7, 2005, at 20:39:51
In reply to Re: not that strong » alexandra_k, posted by Gabbi-x-2 on June 7, 2005, at 20:00:06
> No Alex, frequently you are seeing an inconsistancy where there is none,
frequently?
i don't think i proclaim inconsistency all that often.
i don't think i have proclaimed it in the small boards debate>and claiming "invalid" because it's something that is not understood by you.
to say that an argument is invalid is to say that it is possible for the premises to be true and the conclusion false. thats what invalid means. it applies to argument forms (ps and qs) rather than arguments in natural languages (ie english). it is true that there can be a problem of translation in translating arguments in natural language into their logical forms.
> As much as philosophy would like to concretize all forms of human expression, and understanding it cannot, and it will never discover a way to make all aspects of humanity math.
you think this can't be done as a matter of principle?
if the physical world, at base, is a mathematical function then why not human beings as well given that they are part of the physical world?
> Philosophy is a a drop in the bucket of awareness, perhaps one tool to be used in one's search further understanding, but to use little but a philisophical approach in order to declare an expression of both feeling and thought "valid" or "invalid" is like reading with your eyes closed.'expressions of feeling and thought' are not candidates for validity and invalidity. validity and invalidity applies to argument forms where an argument is a series of propositions (premises) offered in support of a conclusion. to say that an argument is valid is to say that if the premises are true then the conclusion must be true as well. it is to say that if one believes the premises are true then one should also believe the conclusion in order to avoid inconsistency. arguments are the only candidates for validity or invalidity. thoughts are not unless they are used to construct an argument. ideas are not unless they are used to construct an argument. sentances are not unless they are used to construct an argument.
up until the 60's it was fairly much thought that the function of language was to make truth evaluable claims about the world. philosophers fairly much assumed this. wittgenstein then talked about language games. he said that making claims about the mind independent world is one thing we do with language but we also do many other things with language. we give orders. we make requests. we ask questions. we express our experience. those aren't truth evaluable. they are not candidates for truth and falsity. though there is such a thing as speaking truely so it gets a little complicated...
the point is that there are many different things we do with language. arguing is only one of them. logic is the science of what follows from what. the logical relation between thoughts / propositions. when one is making truth evaluable claims about the world. we need not know whether the claims are true or false in order to comment on the arguments structure (whether it is valid or invalid, however). but that is only one thing we do with language.
so logic applies to a limited domain.
no problem.
that doesn't rule out an account of the other things.
it is just that they haven't been the focus of much attention up until now.
but if understanding those other functions of language is beyond us as a matter of principle then there is no point in trying
we may as well give up now.
show over folks you might as well go home.> It's not a way in which I learn, I find actually I have to be very careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater when I do come in contact with it.
yes. like cbt. there is a lot of nonsense. and some good stuff. best not to throw the good stuff out with the nonsense but sometimes it becomes nonsense by association.
i left pc because my thoughts were not appreciated over there. i don't want it to come to that over here. i know i need to learn to tone it down and not get so involved and to express myself more diplomatically and to be sensitive to others and more especially to convey that sensitivity
i hope i do get the opportunity to learn that
it isn't that i use this as a debate board
it is that this is the way i look at things
this is what i think about
i can't help it
i can probably learn to express myself more appropriately etc
but i don't see me radically changing in the near future
i know it alienates me from people irl
i know it is alienating me from people here too
but i'm not just here to argue
i've joined up to philosophy chat boards
if i just wanted to argue with a bunch of philosophers i would stay there
but i am trying to learn
to think less like a machine
and more like a person
i have trouble reconciling my ideals of rational thought and precision
and my moods
my emotions
it is hard for me
im sorry
i don't mean to create tension
or to make people upset
i see that it happens
and i need to learn the middle way
poster:alexandra_k
thread:500533
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20050530/msgs/509368.html