Posted by alexandra_k on May 22, 2005, at 21:53:51
In reply to Re: Alex » alexandra_k, posted by Gabbi-x-2 on May 22, 2005, at 21:20:03
> Exactly. Though I suppose there are some Zen equivilents who can.. in the ideal like those who can transcend pain, but I don't think it's realistic, or for me, even desirable.
Hmm... I don't know that they can... I think that you can *choose* to focus on other things - but that is not the ability to stop having the thought / emotion in the first place. It is just to focus ones awareness on something else that is going on... But to do that ALL the time would probably just have it occur to you more often. I don't know... But I am trying to make sense of this...
> I've been well schooled in that, and I do know the semantic difference, but as I said, most people I speak to, except those who've been in therapy, don't interpret the two any differently,long as there is and "I feel" or "I find" in front of it it's assumed it's personal, and not a generalization.
Yeah. The distinction only becomes important when one is very upset, I guess. Or (I would like to maintain in my thesis) when one is delusional...
> Nothing is inevitable though, much of what people find *offensive* in general, and in the civility rules is societally influenced and people would be just as *offended* if society deemed the opposite to be offensive.Well... I think it is fairly clear when someone is being accused or attacked... Maybe human beings (in general - of all cultures) are similar enough (on some level of abstraction) to be able to talk about 'inevitable human responses'. At least... It would help the notion of 'objective' (read 'inter-subjective') ethics if that was indeed the case...
>That I find to be contradictory to "owning emotions" and that is what bothered me. The statement that somehow if you owned your emotions then this particular thing wouldn't bother you.
Wouldn't bother you AS MUCH. That was the key there. It wouldn't bother you AS MUCH. It still might bother you enough so that you are better off avoiding the poster... But not enough to get really upset about it and risk lashing out at the poster.
> I don't think story is a good word.Ah. I think working out 'intentions' and 'reasons' is a process of narrative construction (aka 'story'). There are different options... Different ways we can construe the 'story'. If you ask 'but what REALLY happened??? What is the TRUE story???' then there isn't really an answer. There isn't really a fact of the matter (the process of interpretation is irreducibly underdetermined - and there is a fundamental indeterminacy). What that means is that (IMO) we are best off to employ the 'principle of charity' to construct the most 'helpful' story. In the sense that you can't change the facts - but there is a lot of leeway in the interpretation of the facts. If consider different interpretations then we find that some of those interpretations lead to us feeling bad - and others lead to us feeling much better about ourselves and others. IMO one is better off picking the interpretation that has the good consequences. It just makes life a whole heap nicer.
I guess that I really do believe that there is a fundamental indeterminacy. And I really do believe one should employ the principle of charity.
Do I really believe the narrative constructs???
Well... Only insofar as they are the 'best explanation' with respect to the facts (reality constraints) and principle of charity...
> However, there have been other posters who have annoyed me, and no matter what I tried to convince myself I could not believe that they were not being rude. So I don't think it's something everyone can do. You need to believe it, otherwise it's insincere and that's no good to anyone. I think it would be more honorable to just ignore the person.
Yes.
Maybe it would be helpful to post to a 'buddy' who might be able to help you out there with respect to 'charity'??? But I do hear what you are saying... I have come across a couple of posters who I struggle to 'think nice thoughts' about... They just seem to push my buttons... Though, of course, it isn't that they push my buttons... Rather that I can't seem to figure out a way to think kindly of them... I do think the best thing to do there is to ignore them...
> Thanks for the hugYou are welcome, have another
(((Gabbi)))
poster:alexandra_k
thread:500533
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20050517/msgs/501456.html