Posted by used2b on April 12, 2005, at 23:36:25
In reply to Re: The doctor's skillful insight » used2b, posted by Gabbi-x-2 on April 12, 2005, at 22:49:37
> No, the point is how it's said, not whether it's perception or feeling. It needs to be made personal. As in saying "I didn't like that" as opposed to "that was stupid" Or "that doesn't feel sincere to me" not "That's pretentious"
Were that the case, I would have no complaint. But that is not the case. It was purely and technically a personal statement. I stated how something appeared to me, in contrast to how it probably appeared to someone else.
What about "that doesn't *seem* sincere to me". Or "To you that might be real, but to me it is not real"? You might convince yourself one of those would pass, but if this boy in Chicago decides it's time to slap you, he will tell you it was not enough of an I-statement, without ever telling you what is a sufficient I-statement. He will sanction you, then after the fact begin constructing reasons.
It is not about attributing a perception to one's self, as i did. The boy already stated that even if I were to couch my perception in his proposed model structure, he would still act hatefully toward me.
It is about nothing other than whether some young man in Chicago is fed up with somebody's general tone and decides it is time call the person out to demonstrate his authority. The same stance and sentence structure can be okay for days and weeks until he decides to make it illegal, then a day later, it is legal again, with no consistent statement from him other than "I know it when I see it." followed by references to contradictory models that would never be accepted by any peer reviewed journal of English usage. The "tricky" rules he cites can be recognized by most casual linguists as internally inconsistent.
>
> > The gall -- to tell me that symbols are not pretense. Go back to school doctor.
>
> It wasn't that, it was that by saying it when you did you were implying that the person sending them or typing them to you was being insincere or pretentious.Absolutely not. I explicitly stated the person probably was sincere. It was a comparative sentence structure that juxtaposed my perception with the best possible view of the other's motivations. I stated my perception, based entirely on my internal state that leads me to so perceive symbols as pretentious. "To you it might be real, but to me it is all pretense."
"TO ME" .... did you read that?
I didn't state the whole truth, which is that all symbols are pretense. All cultural rites are pretense. We rely on pretense as the foundation of culture. That sort of honest science would no doubt lead to torture before lynching.> If you had said in another post that those hugs get on your nerves, they seem phony that would have been okay.
No it would not. That is exactly what I said. Except I didn't say they seem phony. I said they only seem phony to me. I didn't even say they get on my nerves. Maybe I would really like it. Maybe i would like a shot of heroin, too. I said I don't want to take part in that, and briefly explained my reasons -- to me they are pretense.
Now, having been abused for my honesty, I am stating and presenting evidence that symbols are not only pretense to me, they are pretense to real scientists (which Robert Hsuing is not, he is an academic and a clinician) who spend their lives studying animal behavior.
>I'm not saying I don't think it's not piccayune at times, but just trying to point out the difference.
>And I am pointing out that piccayune, capricious authority is the cause of, not the cure for, abuse. I hope this boy will surrender his medical license, and go back to school to study communication if that's what he wants to do for a career. Otherwise, his personal communication experiment offends language and offends those who care to use it accurately and consistently.
As for you, you are demonstrating typical survivor symptoms, offering yourself rationale for why you survived when someone else didn't. The rationale is not consistent with reality, which is evidence that it is compensatory.
And for me, having recognized the rules as farsical, I no longer find any need to pretend otherwise.
poster:used2b
thread:483523
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20050323/msgs/483562.html