Posted by Dr. Bob on September 26, 2003, at 1:54:24
In reply to Re: please be civil » DSCH, posted by Dr. Bob on September 23, 2003, at 23:52:19
[Posted by tealady on September 25, 2003, at 22:12:57]
> Long post sorry. Couldn't find a way of saying it shorter.
>
> I just felt a slight disquiet over Cam's post, and his following references to quackwatch.
> The background for my concern
> would have to include the influence arguably exrcised by the powerful pharmaceutical dollar...which I'm sure some are aware of.
>
> In many countries there appears to be a push to limit peoples' access to vitamins/supplements and even the older nonpatentable drugs based on pigs. I think I remember one Canadian doc got taken to court and lost his license to practise last year perhaps arguably for "over subscribing" a product based on pig's thyroid ..a similar case in England earlier. At least this is my view from what I read. This product has been subscribed for over 100years. I am really trying to only touch on.
> This push extends to the supplement industry where it is in some countries becoming increasingly difficult to access pure supplements in quantities and forms that may be useful, without resorting to fertilizer grade! There are surprisingly "standardised"(perhaps as they are made at the same factory anyway) formulaes which often cut the absorption level of any particular needed vitamin/mineral. This together with tighter govt regulation..sometimes good in enforcing the supplements contain the quantities and ingredients stated..sometimes bad in limiting the range of the amount.
> It is becoming increasingly difficult for supplements in some countries to pass govt regulation, new ones don't appear to be allowed ..eg In Oz you can't buy methylcobalamin, NADH, TMG, P5P form of B6.
> All this is a feel I get, I have not been following closely.
>
> But leads me to feel a disquiet when people make statements that may perhaps only imply that supplements are similar to food and can perhaps be treated as food...as this may possibly be seen as an excuse to further tighten regulation.
>
> If posters of websites are perhaps seen to be promoting this view, the websites themselves may also possibly be seen to. This is an additional concern on top of the misleading info and people perhaps not taking enough care..
>
> Cam's posts that caused the disquiet
> ------------------------
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20030903/msgs/262461.html
> "Clearly this board could potentially do a whole heck of a lot of damage to someone. Anyone not versed (at least a little bit) in psychopharamcology may not be able to separate the real wheat from the real chaff when it comes to self-administration.
>
> I guess time will tell. I have not been posting of late because a fair bit of the recent advice on PB is very suspect. Not many people are researching, or even reading the studies that they quote, relying on the written words of a reporter (eg. the J Clin Psychiatry article on successfully losing the weight gained while taking Zyprexa - my reading of the article differs vastly from that of the reporter.
>
> A similar thing is very likely to happen on this board, only I'll bet it will happen more often. Anyone remember the pig pills?
> - Cam "
>
> "P.S. I cannot elaborate on this because accuracy of facts and reasoning using scientific methods is no longer tolerated on this site. A transmogrification has occurred where psuedo-science and anti-science must be given equal time. The quest for knowledge has been supplanted in order to accommodate obvious quack therapies. We wouldn't want to offend or upset anyone by requesting justification and the proof that led them to their stated conclusions. That just wouldn't be civil. But what is civility anyway: just a word with continually changing, but arbitrary definition? .... or is it just a way to cover the increasingly subjective despotism and arrogance that has permeated this site over the past couple years?
>
> Someone's not leaving their ego at the door; better to have half-baked advice from people too lazy to consult original sources, but will believe what they want to believe. Pitiful, just pitiful."
> -------------
>
> I'm assuming I was being overly sensitive but I didn't like Cam's tone, and wondered why he didn't just at least try to correct any such posts himself if he was concerned, although ,admittedly, it is time consuming. So I thought I'd have a go at any I thought may possibly be construed as misleading or false. Unfortunately,as I stated, I'm ashamed I merely got frustrated, wasted my time, and I have given up on this strategy.
>
> My other thing I didn't like about Cam's post was his drop about pig pills. I didn't understand this, but thought it may have something to do with the docs suspended I mentioned..the medication they were accused of overprescribing was pig's thyroid..which is kinda personal to me, as I am prescribed it. However, it could have been a completely different thing.
>
>
>
> I think Cam raised some good points though.
>
> The members of this board clearly cover a huge range in vulnerability, which is to be expected given what the board is for.
>
> Also in other forums, which are not so well moderated, many posters usually jump at info that they will disagree with..here folks are more cautious...and I am strongly FOR your policy..but I guess it may led to corrections not being made as readily, especially considering the posters doing the correcting themselves are liable to overreact due to their own medical situation, and perhaps the length of repeat offences..does this make sense? I am not in any way saying I disagree with your policy, although perhaps it does create a catch-22 where some may be too scared to post in case of not expressing themselves correctly.
>
> BTW I have to agree with DSCH over Cam's tone, and I still cannot see how DSCH could have expressed it any less civilly, without expressing what exactly his concern was? http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20030903/msgs/262710.html
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20030903/msgs/262680.html
>
> > This may stretching the bounds of civility, but to me your comments have the air of disdainful proclamations eminating from the peak of Mt. Olympus.
>
> He did state how he personally was affected by Cam's posts and what the problem was. I'm not sure how he could state what the problem was, without "stretching the bounds of civility".
>
> DSCH post could not be upsetting to anyone else as far as I could see, although I do see it could led to a heated debate!..which really is not helpful or healthy for anyone here and mostly very time wasting.
>
>
> I appreciate having this board moderated especially with regard to language and personal verbal "attacks" on posters themselves as opposed to the topic they are discussing. I recognise the difficulties in setting the posting guidelines, let alone policing them. I think you are providing an excellent board.
>
> thanks,Jan
>
> PS.
>
> Another point I think Cam was trying to say..
> Some posts also seem to appear to be a asking for advice Does anyone else get this impression? I think that may have been part of the impression Cam was getting as well.
> I believe it is "illegal" to give any sort of medical advise, if not qualified? Is this not correct?
> One CAN however comment on one's personal experience from various treatments or express one's own opinion which is assumably formed from reading the experience of many others, personal observations, or from research. Or give links or quote from other medically qualified experts or books. This is the beauty and power of boards..that we can learn from the experiences and knowledge of others .... especially when a no of people have all had similar side effects...boards can be way ahead of "research" here, and a reason they are sooo helpful.
> Personally I have learnt a lot here of great benefit to me.
> Given the nature of this board some may take this as advise..whereas it should be taken as ideas to consider for further follow up with their own doc , their own research,etc
> I think perhaps this should be made clearer? Just a suggestion up for discussion.
poster:Dr. Bob
thread:263396
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20030808/msgs/263396.html