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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Deneb on June 11, 2009, at 22:10:29
I am reading about borderline personality and stigma and I feel bad. I feel kind of hopeless again.
Posted by Dinah on June 11, 2009, at 22:11:50
In reply to I feel stigmatized, posted by Deneb on June 11, 2009, at 22:10:29
look up physostigmine challenge and borderline
Besides, people are people, not labels.
Posted by Dinah on June 11, 2009, at 22:13:47
In reply to I feel stigmatized, posted by Deneb on June 11, 2009, at 22:10:29
Not that i mean to minimize your feelings.
I fought with my therapist for a year or two over "schizotypal". Look that one up, and you'll see what I mean.
Posted by Deneb on June 11, 2009, at 22:29:05
In reply to Re: I feel stigmatized » Deneb, posted by Dinah on June 11, 2009, at 22:11:50
Yeah, it just makes me feel hopeless to learn how much stigma there is for BPD. I was feeling OK for a long time and feeling better about myself, but recently people are telling me I am not good enough.
I've just tried so hard and made so much progress, it is hard to face that it is just not enough progress and a lot of people won't accept me the way I am.
This is just a general feeling I get. I'm not talking about anyone specific here.
Posted by Dinah on June 11, 2009, at 22:34:36
In reply to Re: I feel stigmatized, posted by Deneb on June 11, 2009, at 22:29:05
Some people tell you one thing, other people tell you another.
Why believe the more negative things about yourself?
Do you not trust those who say nice things about you?
I always hated the whole personality disorder idea. I remember saying to my therapist, with outrage dripping from every pore, "You're saying my PERSONALITY is DISORDERED. How can that not be negative?"
Everyone has their opinion, but I'm guessing your pdoc knows you best?
Posted by Deneb on June 11, 2009, at 22:42:40
In reply to Re: I feel stigmatized » Deneb, posted by Dinah on June 11, 2009, at 22:34:36
Negative things stick in my mind more. I really have to make an effort to believe in the good things.
Just reading all the posts people have posted to me makes me feel like I'm part of a family here. Most people accept me here.
It is nice.
Posted by Phillipa on June 11, 2009, at 23:52:33
In reply to Re: I feel stigmatized » Dinah, posted by Deneb on June 11, 2009, at 22:42:40
Yes it's nice and I bet the docs do the Axis II thing as they almost have to for insurance purposes. Yeah personality Axis's are difficult to read. I know I have a lot of three's the medical ones. I think I'm Axis I either PTSD or Depression/Anxiety. Almost like you got to be one or the other. Well the people who don't seek help seem to need it more than I do a lot of the time they just don't realize it. So I feel we're the normal ones!!!!! See I turned it around and made it a positive!!!!! Love Phillipa
Posted by seldomseen on June 12, 2009, at 7:06:24
In reply to I feel stigmatized, posted by Deneb on June 11, 2009, at 22:10:29
I thought your pdoc, a trained professional, said you did not meet the criteria for borderline personality disorder?
I would definately trust her opinion.
I have borderline "tendencies" I suspect, but then again I suspect I have "tendencies" toward a lot of diagnosis in the DSM hatever (Bipolar for one). It's all on a continuum.
On a related note, I feel quite strongly about not referring to people as their diagnosis/illness. I think it is just not fair and rather disrespectful. I work with people with sickle cell disease and a lot of people, even medical professionals, refer to them as "sicklers". I just wince, and correct them when I hear that terminology.
IMO It's a *person* with sickle cell disease, not a disease with a person.
So, hang in there Deneb. I've been on babble a while and have seen the *marked* progress and self-discovery that you have made.
I'm happy for you and would so hope that you would feel proud, and definately *not* stigmatized about the progress you have made. You are on a very difficult path (in a way we all are) and you are negotiating the pitfalls and struggles very well.
Take good good care.
Seldom
Posted by SLS on June 12, 2009, at 17:51:14
In reply to Re: I feel stigmatized » Deneb, posted by Dinah on June 11, 2009, at 22:11:50
Hi Dinah.
> look up physostigmine challenge and borderline
I'm not sure what you are indicating here. Do you believe that this represents a valid test to screen for BPD?
- Scott
Posted by Dinah on June 12, 2009, at 19:34:44
In reply to Re: I feel stigmatized » Dinah, posted by SLS on June 12, 2009, at 17:51:14
No. It is one of the reasons that I don't believe in the notion that personality disorders are unrelated to physiology.
The link is to only a part of what are identified as borderline behaviors, but it seems to me that Axis II is more biological than it is currently conceived.
If I were in charge, I'd do away with it entirely as a standalone diagnosis, and consider it more as a cluster of characteristic coping mechanisms. For borderline anyway.
The schizoid/schizotypal cluster might be different, and more related to thought disorder than mood disorder.
Linehan includes in her borderline description swift arousal and slow return to baseline, or something like that. I have always thought that more attention ought to be paid to that.
Posted by Phillipa on June 12, 2009, at 20:06:07
In reply to Re: I feel stigmatized » SLS, posted by Dinah on June 12, 2009, at 19:34:44
Ahhh jeez I react so darn fast and takes so long to come down. Does smashing objects count? Phillipa
Posted by SLS on June 13, 2009, at 5:19:00
In reply to Re: I feel stigmatized » SLS, posted by Dinah on June 12, 2009, at 19:34:44
> No. It is one of the reasons that I don't believe in the notion that personality disorders are unrelated to physiology.
I don't delve much into Axis II phenomena, but have some experience with people whom suffer from BPD. I can almost guarantee you that there is a pshysiological component to this condition.
> The link is to only a part of what are identified as borderline behaviors, but it seems to me that Axis II is more biological than it is currently conceived.
Probably, but I think each diagnosis would have to be reevaluated individually.
> If I were in charge,Aaaah!!!
> I'd do away with it entirely as a standalone diagnosis, and consider it more as a cluster of characteristic coping mechanisms. For borderline anyway.
That is an interesting way to look at it. I don't think I fully understand what you are saying here, but there is so much interindividual consistency in the way in which people with BPD react to the same stimulus, it is hard to imagine that there is a universality of coping mechanisms rather than a universality of brain circuitry in this condition. That's just a supposition on my part, though.
- Scott
Posted by Dinah on June 13, 2009, at 5:37:35
In reply to Re: I feel stigmatized » Dinah, posted by SLS on June 13, 2009, at 5:19:00
I'm fine with thinking about it as brain chemistry.
That's far more kind than the way many practitioners seem to view it. Practitioners sometimes lack compassion of the underlying biology when speaking of "personality disorders". Borderline personality disorder in particular.
Not that I'm any expert on the subject.
Posted by SLS on June 13, 2009, at 6:20:58
In reply to Re: I feel stigmatized » SLS, posted by Dinah on June 13, 2009, at 5:37:35
> I'm fine with thinking about it as brain chemistry.
>
> That's far more kind than the way many practitioners seem to view it. Practitioners sometimes lack compassion of the underlying biology when speaking of "personality disorders". Borderline personality disorder in particular.
>
> Not that I'm any expert on the subject.
I have personally seen what would have to be considered a miracle performed with Zyprexa, Trileptal, and group CBT.
- Scott
This is the end of the thread.
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