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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on September 5, 2007, at 10:35:36
Thank heavens I had started watching this show.
The puppy is a nice dog for the most part. Active and playful and everything in the mouth.
But the odd behavior and movements of my old blind/deaf dog and my brain damaged dog apparently make him feel like he needs to rid the pack of these liabilities. Or maybe they just confuse him.
At any rate, he's not playing with them, he's stalking them. He's fine with my other maltese, so it's not a matter of size. You can tell from his eyes and when they sharpen that it's the odd movements. The one bumps into things and then backs up and tries again. The other one has a head tilt that causes her to walk oddly, and proprioception problems that cause her to not know if she's standing on the knuckles instead of the pad of her paw so she stumbles.
At first I was screaming at him, and that didn't help at all. But the approach that the dog whisperer suggests is really making a difference. By becoming alpha dog myself, and making a sharp sound, and putting him in a down relaxed submissive position while I bring the other dog around him, he's now walking past them with no reaction, or with just a mild reaction.
It is so weird. I've had this sort of problem before and mostly had to separate the dogs and watch them very carefully when they were together. I wish I had tried it before.
And it's not a mean thing at all. He's not afraid of me at all. He's still following me around and sitting by my feet. It's just like on the show. He changes his stance to a more relaxed one and looks away from the other dog. I think it's even reduced his ankle biting behavior with me even though I haven't specifically addressed that.
Then my husband comes home and all that happy calmness goes out the window. He gets excited and behaves badly, even if my husband is nowhere around. Testosterone in the air?
Of course, the problem is going to be maintaining this stance. By nature I'm not alpha. I tend to get spaniels and shepherds and sighthounds who are really laid back and nondominant. My chest hurts from all this vigilance.
Hopefully this is just short term and I can go back to being the indulgent easy mummy? The giver of hugs and treats? Once he gets his last shots my vet will give him the ok for long walks and kindergarten classes.
Posted by zenhussy on September 5, 2007, at 11:05:25
In reply to The Dog Whisperer, posted by Dinah on September 5, 2007, at 10:35:36
Posted by Dinah on September 5, 2007, at 11:21:54
In reply to alpha isn't mean, it's responsible and FOREVER! (nm) » Dinah, posted by zenhussy on September 5, 2007, at 11:05:25
Oh hopefully not forever! Or at least I hope that he'll recognize me that way and I won't be forever having to project that energy. It really is making my chest hurt.
But you're right, it isn't mean. It's less mean than the screaming. And it is responsible. I was just surprised I needed it, because my previous Aussie was completely nondominant. Poor little guy. She left big paws to follow in. My perfect Dinah.
And again, totally not in my character, so I'm glad I've been watching that show. I'm not sure I could have managed it without instruction.
lol. Come to think of it, I think I was trained as submissive to my mother's dominant. Or maybe as mediator rather than leader. Or perhaps I was just bred to nondominance. :) Perhaps we aren't all that different from the dogs. I've been identifying a lot with the high strung anxious dogs and wishing for a Cesar in my life.
(I think, except for my weight, I'm a saluki at heart.)
Posted by muffled on September 5, 2007, at 15:58:01
In reply to Re: alpha isn't mean, it's responsible and FOREVER » zenhussy, posted by Dinah on September 5, 2007, at 11:21:54
Dominant is necc esp w/some dogs, they NEED it to feel safer themselves, it makes them calmer and more secure.
My dog that I adopted used to bite vets, now she doesn't.
She tried to nip my daughter when she first came here and I totally took her down. She is much happier now that she knows wassup. If she showed any aggression to my kids, bam, down she'd go. I only did it 3-4x and not since. Now my kids can clamber on her, and put clothes on her etc etc. She puts up with a TREMENDOUS amt of 'loving' abuse by one of my kids. But now I finally pretty much trust her with my kids and she's a really nice dog.
The only downside is I fear that she would show aggression to other kids etc. She has looked a little dismayed a time or two....its in her nature I'm afraid. She DOES warn however, she does this funny lip curl thing!
Anyhow, I'm sure you'll settle in with your pup, and YES it IS hard having anew little one, but you guys will all settle down and be fine.
Take good care,
Muffled
Posted by Dinah on September 5, 2007, at 18:19:00
In reply to Re: alpha isn't mean, it's responsible and FOREVER, posted by muffled on September 5, 2007, at 15:58:01
I hope so, Muffled. I sure hope so.
You're a good dog mom as well as a good kid mom. :)
Posted by Phillipa on September 5, 2007, at 22:46:44
In reply to Re: alpha isn't mean, it's responsible and FOREVER » muffled, posted by Dinah on September 5, 2007, at 18:19:00
Oh I definitely need my little dogs as big one are dominanat over me. Phillipa
Posted by zenhussy on September 6, 2007, at 4:29:58
In reply to Re: alpha isn't mean, it's responsible and FOREVER » zenhussy, posted by Dinah on September 5, 2007, at 11:21:54
perhaps setting the tone in the house will carry over once the pup grows some but like others have said canines need to know their social order in the pack and any lapse in alpha status will be quickly perceived by the pack.
some dogs don't have an alpha bone in their body and don't bother w/ challenging rank. other dogs might seem ok but if they sense a lacking alpha role they will begin their natural behaviour to set pecking order.
hopefully you'll find w/ calm assertive energy you can control your canines more easily than previous methods (such as yelling).
not everyone agrees w/ Milan's methods of training. have had personal success by being CONSISTENT with the calm assertive energy...especially in situations where there was little to be calm about! hard but practice and practice some more...it *can* become natural with practice!
Posted by Dinah on September 6, 2007, at 8:45:07
In reply to Re: alpha isn't mean, it's responsible and FOREVER » Dinah, posted by zenhussy on September 6, 2007, at 4:29:58
I think that's where I will have trouble. Being consistent.
But maybe it's like being Dinah. At first I pretended to be Dinah here. Watching posters I admired and trying to incorporate their attitudes. But eventually being Dinah became so natural to me that I'm Dinah in real life sometimes.
Maybe being alpha will get easier as I fake it.
I guess the difference is that I wanted to be Dinah. I don't really want to be dominant.
I have always been very careful to pick dogs with little to no alpha characteristics. I asked the breeder about this one. But I guess it's all relative. He probably isn't dominant at all among dominant dogs. But among my omega pack, he appears that way. I should make sure I see a puppy among its peers before I commit to taking it. I've been very consistent in picking nondominant dogs that way. The only other dominant one I had came to me sight unseen as well.
The good thing is that he's getting pretty consistent with one of my handicapped dogs. He was even lying quietly back to back with her last night with no interference from me. If I can manage that with the other one, I think it will all turn out ok. It's really hard for me not to think of attacking handicapped creatures in human terms rather than dog ones.
Posted by Dinah on September 6, 2007, at 8:52:13
In reply to Re: alpha isn't mean, it's responsible and FOREVER » Dinah, posted by Phillipa on September 5, 2007, at 22:46:44
I tried to stick to little dogs after Dinah died. But little and big dogs are not the same thing at all. They fill different roles. The little ones are my babies. I love my babies. But I need pals too. Someone to train with. Someone to bury my face in the fur on their throat for a good cry.
They're both great things to have, but not interchangeable.
I've been fortunate with the dominance issue. But I mostly have sighthounds, and sighthounds in my experience are rarely dominant with their owners. They're not submissive either, of course. :) They usually seem to stand aloof and disdainful from pack structure. Or at least mine did.
Posted by Dinah on September 6, 2007, at 9:12:32
In reply to Re: alpha isn't mean, it's responsible and FOREVER » Dinah, posted by zenhussy on September 6, 2007, at 4:29:58
You know, I was a bit skeptical about his methods before I got this puppy, and mainly watched to be interested by the human training and psychology going on. But this puppy is making me a convert. The pup's reactions are just like the ones in the show, right down to body language. And I can see that when my husband is in the house, his tightly coiled energy affects the puppy, even if he's in another room.
Of course, I can see how if done injudiciously it could lead to serious injury. So I think a mixed view of his methods is justified. I sure wouldn't do it with a full grown already aggressive dog.
Nor would most of it be all that helpful with a lot of the dogs I've owned. But different methods for different dogs I guess. I've always watched parents and kids and thought in terms of making boxer corrections on a whippet, or whippet corrections on a boxer. (Of course, I'm sure there are boxers who act more like whippets and vice versa. I'm just using images that pop into my mind from my obedience years.)
This is the end of the thread.
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