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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Declan on April 30, 2007, at 17:42:22
In reply to Re: rehab lite won't cut it w/ him...stay the course! » zenhussy, posted by Kath on April 30, 2007, at 12:54:35
There must have been plenty of people who have addressed the problem of what to do once you have succeeded in abstaining from drugs.
I like the idea that drug abuse is a lust for life gone wrong. (This idea comes from the Iggy Pop album of the same name.)
The only thing that comes to mind is exploring, and it's the wrong century for that (drug use being a kind of exploration).
There must be some way to sublimate this stuff.
Telling someone to do a 9 to 5 and pay the mortgage off doesn't seem to cut it.
Of course, having the right friends and acquaintances is important.
Posted by fayeroe on April 30, 2007, at 18:42:16
In reply to Re: rehab lite won't cut it w/ him...stay the cour » fayeroe, posted by Kath on April 30, 2007, at 12:53:12
i wasn't feeling well when i answered that post and now when i read it, it sounds too harsh.
until your son gets off drugs, the hole can't be filled. when you talk to him/her/anyone, you're talking to the drugs and they are talking back to you.
is his drug of choice cocaine? and does he actually say that he wants to quit or is he still thinking he can "manage" it....cocaine isn't manageable. it rules a person's life.
i've been through it when my kids were teens and early 20s and it is so hard to not step in and do things for them. and i agree with you about bottoming out. hell, i'd bottom out the first time i didn't have money to buy myself a coca-cola. :-) but we're all wired differently. and that is the secret to finding what will stop the usage, the dependence upon masking the pain. that's behind drug usage.......masking a hurt and refusing to deal with feelings. it takes a good counselor to cut through to that.
i was in the grocery store one day and a man came up to me. a former patient. he said he had been sober for a year and it was due to me.(he worked very hard in treatment) that makes all of the other crap worth it. his eyes were shining, he was clean and had a job.......wooooooohoooooooooo. that's better than money.
Posted by fayeroe on April 30, 2007, at 18:46:19
In reply to Re: rehab lite won't cut it w/ him...stay the cour, posted by Declan on April 30, 2007, at 17:42:22
> There must have been plenty of people who have addressed the problem of what to do once you have succeeded in abstaining from drugs.
>
> I like the idea that drug abuse is a lust for life gone wrong. (This idea comes from the Iggy Pop album of the same name.)
>
> The only thing that comes to mind is exploring, and it's the wrong century for that (drug use being a kind of exploration).
> There must be some way to sublimate this stuff.
> Telling someone to do a 9 to 5 and pay the mortgage off doesn't seem to cut it.
> Of course, having the right friends and acquaintances is important.
excellent point about friends, declan.....someone who is clean can't go around the old user buddies......ever. a new life has to be invented, with a different purpose than before. the old friends will suck the life out of someone newly sober and they will fall right back into the trap.i know that the 9-5 grind wouldn't do it for me. it's hard. different strokes for different folks. pat
Posted by fayeroe on April 30, 2007, at 18:47:38
In reply to Re: rehab lite won't cut it w/ him...stay the cour » fayeroe, posted by Kath on April 30, 2007, at 12:53:12
my heart is with you. the amount of pain that this causes is daunting to anyone, but it's different when you're the mother. xoxoxo pat
Posted by Kath on April 30, 2007, at 19:02:22
In reply to Re: rehab lite won't cut it w/ him...stay the cour, posted by Declan on April 30, 2007, at 17:42:22
> There must have been plenty of people who have addressed the problem of what to do once you have succeeded in abstaining from drugs.
*****but in my son's case, I think that it'd be really hard for him to even consider changing his lifestyle until he has something else in place! Right now, he doesn't want to stop doing drugs; he wants to be in control of his use rather than NOT in control of it. Right now, as pointed out by Pat in another post, all his friends either drink or use something or other, so unless there's something else in place he is NOT going to stop.***
> The only thing that comes to mind is exploring, and it's the wrong century for that (drug use being a kind of exploration).
****that's an interesting observation! Too bad about the century. I would have loved to be an explorer! I love reading about them.*****> Telling someone to do a 9 to 5 and pay the mortgage off doesn't seem to cut it.
*******That's for sure!! His passion is 'mixing' music. He has mentioned an interest in taking sound engineering at college. That would be such a huge shift. Who knows. All I can do is hope & try to keep calm & keep loving him, I guess.
Thanks for your input! Hope you're doing well. hugs, Kath***
Posted by Declan on April 30, 2007, at 19:22:10
In reply to Re: rehab lite won't cut it w/ him...stay the cour » Declan, posted by Kath on April 30, 2007, at 19:02:22
So he has to give up the drugs *and* his friends.
And he must think 'what's left to give up after that?'
But like Pat suggested with the Dylan quote, he may find other things.
(So that's what that meant? I didn't really get it till now.)And mixing music. Probably too much fun, hey? (Sounds good to me).
But what to do?I don't have any bright ideas at all. The best *I* managed was read about C20 history, which maybe was the best I could have done. I dunno.
Posted by Kath on April 30, 2007, at 19:22:42
In reply to Re: rehab lite won't cut it w/ him...stay the cour » Kath, posted by fayeroe on April 30, 2007, at 18:42:16
> i wasn't feeling well when i answered that post and now when i read it, it sounds too harsh.
>
> until your son gets off drugs, the hole can't be filled. when you talk to him/her/anyone, you're talking to the drugs and they are talking back to you.******Yup. I really don't like talking with him these days, since it's sorta like he's not 'there'. The psychosis symptoms are more evident than before GF went back to BC & at which time, he started drinking/using again. Part of the psychosis symptoms are his being withdrawn; not very communicative, etc. Some days are better than others.*******
> is his drug of choice cocaine? and does he actually say that he wants to quit or is he still thinking he can "manage" it....cocaine isn't manageable. it rules a person's life.
******He drinks probably daily. Whichever of his friends has booze shares it. A few weeks ago, he told me that while his drug of choice used to be weed, it's now cocaine. And NOOOO - he does not want to quit drugs. Now, saying that, I haven't asked him where he stands on coke. Come to think of it, he said that he mainly does cocaine if he is really feeling rotten & is alone.
He does weed sometimes & E sometimes also & K. Lovely eh? All I know is that since he's been back - Jan 28th, he's done coke about I figure 6 different days. Three times he's messed up financially due to it. (been late for rent, etc). The last time he really messed up & that made him realize that he was NOT in control of his use. While discussing rehab, he said that he knows drugs will be a part of his life when he gets out of rehab, so he wants to learn to be able to control it. (I give myself full credit for not saying anything, but just listening at that point. He's not ready to hear any sense about it yet, in my opinion.)********
> > i've been through it when my kids were teens and early 20s and it is so hard to not step in and do things for them. and i agree with you about bottoming out. hell, i'd bottom out the first time i didn't have money to buy myself a coca-cola. :-) but we're all wired differently. and that is the secret to finding what will stop the usage, the dependence upon masking the pain. that's behind drug usage.......masking a hurt and refusing to deal with feelings. it takes a good counselor to cut through to that.
****When my son was telling me he needed rehab, he was talking about various things that I'd done in the past. (He's very much in victim mode; his case manager talked with me about this aspect of things & helped me feel better.) Anyway, I pointed out to him that YES - he has all these hurts & they need to be dealt with & healed before he can heal. That using drugs has been his way of dealing with stress & painful emotions, etc & that I didn't see how 1 month could do that....that he had his whole life ahead of him; maybe setting aside a few months wasn't such a bad trade-off in order to heal. But he isn't ready to hear it yet. Nevertheless, I have said it, so I feel good about that. It's 'in there' somewhere...he might remember it some day.****
> i was in the grocery store one day and a man came up to me. a former patient. he said he had been sober for a year and it was due to me.(he worked very hard in treatment) that makes all of the other crap worth it. his eyes were shining, he was clean and had a job.......wooooooohoooooooooo. that's better than money.*****that must have been amazing!!!!!!! What a wonderful thing to happen Pat!! It seems to me that often your job must be a thankless one; particularly if people are court-ordered to quit. That experience must have been just great! Thanks for your input about all of this.
And I'm going to answer your other post separately.Kath
Posted by Kath on April 30, 2007, at 19:23:58
In reply to Re: rehab lite won't cut it w/ him...stay the cour » Kath, posted by fayeroe on April 30, 2007, at 18:47:38
> my heart is with you. the amount of pain that this causes is daunting to anyone, but it's different when you're the mother. xoxoxo pat
Hey - that could explain why sometimes it feels just so awful!!!!!!!!
Thanks for the validation Pat.
I send hugs, Kath
Posted by fayeroe on April 30, 2007, at 21:14:00
In reply to :-) » fayeroe, posted by Kath on April 30, 2007, at 19:23:58
> > my heart is with you. the amount of pain that this causes is daunting to anyone, but it's different when you're the mother. xoxoxo pat
>
> Hey - that could explain why sometimes it feels just so awful!!!!!!!!
>
> Thanks for the validation Pat.
>
> I send hugs, Kathyou're most welcome and thanks for the hugs. i'm having a bit of a hard time with physical pain today.......xoxox pat
Posted by fayeroe on April 30, 2007, at 21:18:27
In reply to Thanks Pat » fayeroe, posted by Kath on April 30, 2007, at 19:22:42
there are several questions that an addict can answer and it can be very "eye-opening" for them.
1. do you use/drink alone?
2. do you use/drink first thing in the morning?
3. ever lost a relationship due to your usage?
4. ever have money problems due to your usage?
5. ever lose your "housing" due to the usage?
6. ever hide your stash, so you won't have to share?
7. ever lose a job due to drugs/alcohol?i worked with a Navajo saddle bronc rider and one night (i'm a photographer also), he came up to me at a rodeo and said, "you'd be amazed at how much easier it is to win when you're sober"........:-) he won the world championship that year!!!!!!!!
Posted by Declan on April 30, 2007, at 22:06:05
In reply to Re: Thanks Pat » Kath, posted by fayeroe on April 30, 2007, at 21:18:27
That life is easier when you are sober, not the other way round.
Posted by fayeroe on May 1, 2007, at 7:43:04
In reply to Maybe that's it?, posted by Declan on April 30, 2007, at 22:06:05
Posted by Kath on May 1, 2007, at 14:10:21
In reply to Re: Thanks Pat » Kath, posted by fayeroe on April 30, 2007, at 21:18:27
Hey Pat once again, that must have felt SO good. To have been involved in a person changing their life around!
I'm sorry you're in physical pain. I hate pain of all kinds ... emotional & physical. I can handle some types without too much of a problem, like maybe achey muscles, etc. I guess I was OK with my broken toe pain also.
But CERTAIN types of pain I find so hard to deal with. Sinus pain for me, is really hard.
I hope yours is 'fleeting' ... meaning not chronic.
Thank you VERY much for that list of questions.
I'm going to print it out & keep it in my purse in case a suitable opportunity to use it arises.luv, Kath
PS I'm going to post an update but it needs a trigger mark so I'm doing it separately.
k
Posted by Kath on May 1, 2007, at 14:13:54
In reply to Maybe that's it?, posted by Declan on April 30, 2007, at 22:06:05
> That life is easier when you are sober, not the other way round.
Since there are so many parts to life, including practical stuff, emotions, etc. I am thinking of it like the old fashioned scales that have sort of a 'pan' on each side. I suspect that for addicts, a lot of the emotions that would weigh heavily might feel lighter when they're numbed by drugs, but maybe the practical things weigh heavier when they screw up due to drug use. I guess it comes down to which pan is heavier & how much heavier it is!
Kath
Posted by Kath on May 1, 2007, at 14:44:28
In reply to Balance scale, posted by Kath on May 1, 2007, at 14:13:54
He withdrew the month's money today (same as last month). He owed me $100 of it & had agreed to pay me if out of this money. (I view this as a good 'measuring post' for him and for me to see where he's at.)
I went to his place on my way to an appointment & when he said he'd used 'my' money I said that he needs to be in rehab NOW.
He said he wants to go to hospital. I asked if it was psychosis symptoms he said yeah, that he'd been feeling suicidal. He said he needed a few hours sleep first, so we agreed that I'd phone him or go over at 3.
I feel sorta weird that I didn't insist on going then.
Selftalk: what kind of person ARE you?
Here your kid's saying they're suicidal & you say you'll call him later.
But I asked him if he was safe right now & he said yes that he really needs to sleep.
When I called him at 3 as agreed, he said he needs more sleep & I said I'd call him at 5 & was that OK & he said yes.
Well my 'Mom' alarm bells aren't going off as to the suicidal part.
He's bigger & stronger than me .... am I going to manhandle him?
He wasn't saying he is in immenent danger.
He did ask for immediate help finding a safe place while he was in Vancouver, so I know he has been able to recognize that in the past.
I feel badly for posting all this drama! I feel like people must get sick of hearing all this from me. But then I think, well if they see it's a post from me they know my life seems to be filled with drama & can choose not to read it.
: ( Kath
Posted by fayeroe on May 1, 2007, at 15:43:44
In reply to ***possible trigger** he wants to go to hosp later, posted by Kath on May 1, 2007, at 14:44:28
have you talked to him again?
Posted by Phillipa on May 1, 2007, at 19:48:52
In reply to Re: ***possible trigger** he wants to go to hosp later » Kath, posted by fayeroe on May 1, 2007, at 15:43:44
Kath don't give him too much leeway. Love Phillipa
Posted by muffled on May 1, 2007, at 22:54:43
In reply to ***possible trigger** he wants to go to hosp later, posted by Kath on May 1, 2007, at 14:44:28
Posted by scratchpad on May 2, 2007, at 7:43:34
In reply to ***possible trigger** he wants to go to hosp later, posted by Kath on May 1, 2007, at 14:44:28
Kath, I wanted you to know that I'm thinking of you. I hope that your son decided to check himself in.
Scratchpad
Posted by Kath on May 2, 2007, at 10:55:48
In reply to Re: ***possible trigger** he wants to go to hosp l, posted by scratchpad on May 2, 2007, at 7:43:34
I called the nurse this morning & let her know that his meds WERE working, but that it's the cocaine use that's caused the symptoms. She said that, yes, that was on his chart & the psychiatrist knows about that & saw my son this morning. She was really nice.
He says he's less than half as bad as in Vancouver, but does have the 'plots', the voices telling to hurt himself or they'll hurt his family, plus he's already feeling like hurting himself anyway.
I'm feeling pretty calm about him having this happen. Who knows, maybe it'll help him towards learning that he can't do coke & not mess up his brain bigtime. I don't know. I'm still trying to be detached.
I'll probably post more later. Gotta go now, but wanted to let you guys know what's up. I appreciate your support.
At this point, I am thinking that I should something about once he's out of hospital, when he's at a place that he is going into rehab to deal with his problems, I'll be involved; unless he is, I can't be involved with him. I dunno.
Thoughts are welcome. I'll be talking with his 'worker' about it.thanks all, luv, Kath
Posted by scratchpad on May 2, 2007, at 11:40:51
In reply to Thanks everyone; he's checked in, posted by Kath on May 2, 2007, at 10:55:48
(((Kath))) I think you need a hug above all else.
Your son's future is in his hands, and it's his responsibility. That doesn't mean that family shouldn't be supportive, but the practical role must be his!I see what my step daughter is going through, and I wonder - at what point does someone grow up? When do they assume ownership of their potential and future? When does helping become enabling? Sigh. I know we've all heard it before.
Be there to listen.
Be there to give emotional support.
If you give financial support, make sure it has a written plan for repayment, however slow. Hold the other person to that agreement. If it's not realistic, it can be renegotiated.I'm sending healing thoughts for your son, Kath, and strong, compassionate thoughts for you.
sp
Posted by zenhussy on May 2, 2007, at 13:38:29
In reply to Thanks everyone; he's checked in, posted by Kath on May 2, 2007, at 10:55:48
>>>At this point, I am thinking that I should something about once he's out of hospital, when he's at a place that he is going into rehab to deal with his problems, I'll be involved; unless he is, I can't be involved with him. I dunno.
Thoughts are welcome. I'll be talking with his 'worker' about it.
thanks all, luv, Kath<<<that's just it w/ stay the course---exactly what you're doing. setting boundaries FOR YOURSELF and sticking to them. you can only help your son if you're firm in what you will and WON'T do.
much support continued your way in thoughts
it isn't easy to do such things but so necessary to not get entangled in an addicts web. you're dead on with your comments here ".....once he's out of hospital, when he's at a place that he is going into rehab to deal with his problems, I'll be involved; unless he is, I can't be involved with him......"
again, kind thoughts of support for you Kath.
Posted by Kath on May 2, 2007, at 20:56:13
In reply to Thots » Kath, posted by scratchpad on May 2, 2007, at 11:40:51
> (((Kath))) I think you need a hug above all else.
********THANKS!!!!!!!! I think yer rite!!!! :.)
> I'm sending healing thoughts for your son, Kath, and strong, compassionate thoughts for you.
>
> sp
******thx for your thots. I certainly had NO idea that being a parent had the potential to be so hard!
I appreciate the hugs; words of wisdom & commiseration & your last paragraph.luv, Kath
Posted by Kath on May 2, 2007, at 20:58:47
In reply to Re: Thanks everyone; he's checked in » Kath, posted by zenhussy on May 2, 2007, at 13:38:29
Thx so much ZH,
I find 'buzz phrases really useful, so now I will use "stay the course" to remind myself of what I said!!! The feeling of setting boundaries of what I will & won't do.
Thx for your post. It helps me feel better.
Love, Kath
Posted by zenhussy on May 21, 2007, at 10:18:58
In reply to Re: Thanks everyone; he's checked in » zenhussy, posted by Kath on May 2, 2007, at 20:58:47
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