![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by partlycloudy on October 24, 2004, at 15:08:32
called, What The Bleep Do We Know!? Kind of a documentary, kind of a spiritual movie, with lots of discussion about addictions.
I just saw it and it pretty much summed up my past year in therapy. It tied up many loose ends and created new ones for me to ponder.
Posted by fallsfall on October 24, 2004, at 15:53:27
In reply to Has anyone seen this Marlee Maitlin movie, posted by partlycloudy on October 24, 2004, at 15:08:32
That looks so cool! and I love Marlee Matlin.
I have to wait until 11/7 for it to be in my area. Thanks for letting us know about it.
Posted by partlycloudy on October 24, 2004, at 17:08:38
In reply to Re: Has anyone seen this Marlee Maitlin movie » partlycloudy, posted by fallsfall on October 24, 2004, at 15:53:27
Of course, it was panned by the local press, which is probably why I liked it.
Posted by Cass on October 24, 2004, at 17:38:20
In reply to Re: Has anyone seen this Marlee Matlin movie » fallsfall, posted by partlycloudy on October 24, 2004, at 17:08:38
I've seen it twice. I really enjoyed it, and as soon as it comes out in DVD, I'm going to buy it.
Posted by Jai Narayan on October 24, 2004, at 20:21:03
In reply to Re: Has anyone seen this Marlee Matlin movie » partlycloudy, posted by Cass on October 24, 2004, at 17:38:20
I thought it was a funny movie with depth. I liked the philosophical approach.
did you all see "Waking Life"?
I loved that too.
I just saw "The Corporation" really cool and very illuminating.
Jai
Posted by fallsfall on November 10, 2004, at 9:26:54
In reply to Has anyone seen this Marlee Maitlin movie, posted by partlycloudy on October 24, 2004, at 15:08:32
I saw "What the bleep do we know" last night.
What a powerful movie. It made me think (and thinking has been really hard for me lately!!). It helped me understand some things about the process of getting better.
I am trying to find someone to work my shift tonight so I can go see it again tonight before it leaves the area.
This movie isn't for everyone (like the critics). But if you can tolerate sciencey/intellectual/philosophical stuff, this movie explains some things really well, and ties things together.
Partlycloudy - thank you so much for making me aware of this film. My theater had a discussion session at the end, but the people I went with didn't want to stay. If I go tomorrow, I will stay. Wanna talk about it here?
Posted by partlycloudy on November 10, 2004, at 11:19:20
In reply to Re: Go see this Marlee Matlin movie » partlycloudy, posted by fallsfall on November 10, 2004, at 9:26:54
Falls, I would love to talk about it. Not much has been staying in my brain lately, but I think I can summon up a conversation!
Posted by fallsfall on November 10, 2004, at 21:24:07
In reply to Re: Go see this Marlee Matlin movie » fallsfall, posted by partlycloudy on November 10, 2004, at 11:19:20
Here are some of my thoughts...
I thought that it was excessively visually stimulating. I LIKE to look at a scene and have time to see some of the nuances - when the camera angles change every 10 seconds I spend all of my time trying to orient myself and don't have time to look.
My friend liked how essentially hopeful the movie was: we can change whatever we want to, because (toss in a quantum physics drum roll here) it is what we perceive it to be, or at the very least is influenced by our perception.
But I'm not quite ready to accept that yet. I still feel firmly planted in a world that has A (one) reality.
I liked:
Challenge assumptions (because historically we know that these assumptions tend to be false!)
There are many ways to look at the same thing - i.e. many realities (this is hard for me, see above)
Somehow seeing the connections in the brain allowed me to see why it is so hard to move past our experiences. That the process of disconnecting longstanding connections takes time and relearning. And that creating new connections also takes time and learning. I knew this, but somehow the visuals (or words?) in the movie allows it to make more sense to me. Maybe this will give me more patience with the therapy process (and allow me to see it more as a process than a "done" vs. "not done" (black and white) thing.
They articulated pretty clearly how I think about God. I thought it was a little brazen to say that the organized religions of the world were blasphemous. I maintain that different people need different images of God. It was surprising for me, however, to hear them so closely describe my image.
In therapy we are working on "What would happen if I got better?" and "What would I lose if I weren't depressed?" and "What do I gain by being depressed?". The way they described addiction works nicely: I am addicted to depression.
Also, there was something about the addictions "using up" (?) resources in the cells so that the cells don't have the capacity to get the nutrients they need. I need to see it again to understand this better.
What spoke to you?
Posted by partlycloudy on November 11, 2004, at 4:18:25
In reply to Re: Go see this Marlee Matlin movie » partlycloudy, posted by fallsfall on November 10, 2004, at 21:24:07
Definitely the explanation of addiction struck a chord in me. I understand how easy it is to trade one addiction for another, but hadn't fully appreciated that it's what my body expects.
I loved the acceptance of self image in the movie. When she sees herself in the mirror, all distorted out of reality, and being able to realize that it's her perception getting in the way. Wouldn't I love to mark my limbs with an eye liner! Right now it would be a bunch of arrows: hurts here, bulges here, bruises here.
I was startled when I figured out that J.Z. Knight was the same person I had seen on The Dinah Shore Show, 25+ years ago!! Even though I was just a kid, she fascinated me. The discussions about god were in line with my stumbling baby steps of belief. I'm still exploring that aspect of myself, but I was gratified to see it explored so fully in the movie.
The wedding scene was fantastic.
It was the kind of film that left me smacking my forehead when I left - Now I Get It!!
Posted by fallsfall on March 16, 2005, at 13:02:50
In reply to Re: Go see this Marlee Matlin movie » fallsfall, posted by partlycloudy on November 11, 2004, at 4:18:25
This movie came out on DVD yesterday. I had a Bleep party last night. We watched the movie (for the third time for all of us), ate chocolate mousse pie, and had some really stimulating conversation.
Not everyone will like this movie. But for some of us it is a real mind expanding experience.
It was interesting that each of the 4 of us last night got different things from the movie. I am into the physical, scientific characteristics of emotions - neural nets in the brain, peptides, how the observer affects reality by focusing on one of many possibilities, how I am addicted to depression. One friend was into how we have control over our reality - how we can choose and effect our world, and the spiritual ramifications of that. One friend was into the possibility of parallel realities - of moving into a 5th dimension. The fourth was pretty quiet, but has spent much of the last 25 years researching consciousness.
We all watched the same movie. But even as we talked about individual segments of the movie we each learned different things. It is like it spoke to each of us at the level of where we are right now, and allows each of us to learn and progress from where we are right now (sort of like accepting who you are in the moment, whoever that might be, and moving forward from there).
Every time I have seen this movie, I gain new understandings that I have to process for a while - I go to the library to read more by these scientists, I search the internet, I talk to people.
One thing I picked up this time was that one of them said that when you learn something new that endorphins are released. It has been a really long time since I've had the rush of "I understand this new, cool thing". This movie gives me that each time I see it.
From what I've seen, people have widely different reactions to this film - from "That was stupid" to "This film has changed my life". I would encourage people to see it, because you don't know - you could be one of the "This film has changed my life" people. And you wouldn't want to miss that opportunity. If you decide that you are one of the "That was stupid" people, then you have wasted 90 minutes - not such a huge cost.
PartlyCloudy - I probably wouldn't have seen this movie if you hadn't posted about it. Thank you very much for making me aware of this mind-opening experience.
What did the rest of you think? What did you learn? What questions are you asking now?
Posted by caraher on March 16, 2005, at 17:17:03
In reply to Re: Go see this Marlee Matlin movie » partlycloudy, posted by fallsfall on November 10, 2004, at 21:24:07
> My friend liked how essentially hopeful the movie was: we can change whatever we want to, because (toss in a quantum physics drum roll here) it is what we perceive it to be, or at the very least is influenced by our perception.
>
> But I'm not quite ready to accept that yet. I still feel firmly planted in a world that has A (one) reality.I did not yet see this movie but as a physicist I cringe at these at best contentious claims about the implications of quantum mechanics, espcially when applied to the mind. Saying that, say, a photon does not have a well-definied polarization state before it is measured is a LONG way from saying the world is "whatever we perceive it to be." Quantum mechanics is fascinating and includes plenty of counterintuitive results, but its support of radical notions about the relationship between the mind and reality is at best metaphorical.
> They articulated pretty clearly how I think about God. I thought it was a little brazen to say that the organized religions of the world were blasphemous.
Bear in mind that this film was produced by a what I've seen described by many sources as a cult. Clearly they have a viewpoint to promote, and no doubt this is why they are pretty heavy-handed about other religions.
The link below contains a very negative review of the film with links to more information about the backers of the film and other issues.
http://www.math.columbia.edu/~woit/blog/archives/000083.html
I hope I don't come off sounding hostile about the film. If you got something of value out of it and enjoyed it that's great. I plan to see it myself and hope I enjoy the experience. I just think one needs to be careful not to take its scientific content without a healthy helping of sodium chloride.
Posted by partlycloudy on March 16, 2005, at 18:48:26
In reply to Re: Go see this Marlee Matlin movie, posted by caraher on March 16, 2005, at 17:17:03
I'd like to discuss the film with you after you've seen it.
Posted by fallsfall on March 16, 2005, at 20:37:51
In reply to Re: Go see this Marlee Matlin movie, posted by caraher on March 16, 2005, at 17:17:03
I read the web page you referenced. I can't say one way or another because I don't understand enough of the science.
From my time last night with my friends I was able to see that they took much more of a spiritual message from the movie than I did. I was much more into the physical side of things. I found that the movie introduced me to things. Understanding Peptides, for instance, has helped me to understand how things are coordinated in my body. Their visualization of the neurons in the brain helped me to understand why my recovery from depression is taking a long time (I've been depressed for a very long time, so the "depression" pathways in my brain are firmly entrenched). I think there is also a connection between how my therapist says that my behavior encourages him (and others) to repeat the patterns from my past, and the idea in the movie that we have more control than most people realize over how our lives turn out.
I think that I've been fairly oblivious to the "cult" tendency that your source talks about. My friends tend to see it as we have control/responsibility over our lives. At this point in my journey, having control and responsibility is a bit scary for me! I can see how people might object to that part of it. I thought that their discussion of God was a bit "brazen", but my own beliefs are that different people have different needs and beliefs about God, and that all beliefs are valid for those individuals. So I am happy to let those in the movie believe what they want to, as long as it works for them. My own beliefs are not so different from what they described, so perhaps that is why it didn't bother me so much. I do think that you can accept some of what is discussed in the movie without accepting it all. And I hope that brings information and discussion to those who see the movie.
In general, I thought the movie did a good job of explaining some pretty complicated concepts. And even if people see the movie and then decide that what it is saying is wrong, at least it has started a conversation about those things.
For me, it has reminded me that I enjoy learning about new things (and this is non-trivial with someone who is as severely depressed as I am). I held the first party I have given in many years. It has increased my patience with my therapy (and my impatience has presented a problem in the past). So, for me it has been a good thing.
I hope that the movie is helpful to you in some way, too.
Posted by Susan47 on April 12, 2005, at 12:12:36
In reply to Re: Go see this Marlee Matlin movie » partlycloudy, posted by fallsfall on November 10, 2004, at 21:24:07
I don't think the blasphemy was aimed at the religions themselves, I got the idea the blasphemy was people's need. It's how we feed our limitations that is the blasphemy.
Posted by Susan47 on April 12, 2005, at 12:16:17
In reply to Re: Go see this Marlee Matlin movie » fallsfall, posted by Susan47 on April 12, 2005, at 12:12:36
Posted by Susan47 on April 12, 2005, at 12:36:26
In reply to Re: Go see this Marlee Matlin movie » caraher, posted by fallsfall on March 16, 2005, at 20:37:51
I have to agree with everything both you and your friends said about the movie. I got all of that plus more, but the best thing of all would be to see the movie in a group of people and have a discussion about it afterwards... definitely, because just reading what you posted about peptides and neural pathways reminded me that I got that too, and it's important, and it helps me understand that I CAN I CAN REWIRE MY BRAIN!!!! For me that was one of the most exciting aspects of the movie. The fact that I have control was brought home to me in a way that nothing else ever has.
Posted by Susan47 on April 12, 2005, at 12:38:50
In reply to Re: Go see this Marlee Matlin movie, posted by caraher on March 16, 2005, at 17:17:03
What you've said is also very true, and I with my little teensy weeny mind and no understanding of physicas, also saw those flaws in the reasoning. But what I did "catch", was fascinating and worthy of thought.
Posted by Susan47 on April 14, 2005, at 10:08:51
In reply to Re: Go see this Marlee Matlin movie » fallsfall, posted by partlycloudy on November 11, 2004, at 4:18:25
JZ Knight wrote a couple of books about her first encounters with Ramtha, what her life was before etc. I remember reading those twenty years ago. And I've never forgotten her, you know. Because whether it's real to us or not, it seems to be very real to her, and I just have to respect that .. I could completely understand why she was in this movie, as she is one of those people who has a reality outside of what most of the rest of us can see, and you could say she's created it for herself and so therefore it's real on a level we can't see, even if it's a level her brain has created .. but if she hasn't created it and it was there and she just tapped into it, well then is that the same thing, or different? So her life story is partly what the scientists and researchers are talking about, you know? I dismissed JZ Knight as a flake a long time ago, but I could be wrong, because what she says, when I understand it, makes so much sense .. and when I don't, that's when I go, okay, no empirical evidence, she's a flake, or maybe, hmmm, where IS the empirical evidence for what she's saying? Well it seems as though science is coming up with some answers .. or is it? Was that stuff about the water true? I just can't see it. But then there're people I know who've done things that can't be explained, people with access to powers that have to do with nature itself, you know, people I know IRL who are perfectly "sane" and highly functioning individuals ...
Posted by fallsfall on April 14, 2005, at 15:39:29
In reply to Re: Go see this Marlee Matlin movie » partlycloudy, posted by Susan47 on April 14, 2005, at 10:08:51
That's what I like about the movie. It makes you think on so many levels.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Social | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.