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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 50. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 25, 2004, at 10:52:16
Does Evil Exist?
This has a thought provoking message no matter how you believe.
Does evil exist? The university professor challenged his students with this question. Did God create everything that exists?
A student bravely replied yes, he did!"
"God created everything?" The professor asked.
"Yes sir", the student replied.
The professor answered, "If God created everything, then God created evil since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are then God is evil".
The students became quiet before such an answer.
The professor was quite pleased with himself and boasted to the students that he had proven once more that faith in God was a myth.
Another student raised his hand and said, "Can I ask you a question professor?" "Of course", replied the professor. The student stood up and asked, "Professor, does cold exist?" "What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?" The students snickered at the young man's question.
The young man replied, "In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. Everybody or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (- 460 degrees F) is the total absence of heat; all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have no heat.
The student continued. "Professor, does darkness exist?"
The professor responded, "Of course it does".
The student replied, "Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact we can use Newton's prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn't this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present."
Finally the young man asked the professor. "Sir, does evil exist?"
Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course as I have already said. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil."
To which this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is not like faith, or love that exist just as does light and heat. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."
The professor sat down.
The young man's name --- Albert Einstein
Posted by verne on December 25, 2004, at 12:03:46
In reply to Does evil exist?, posted by Larry Hoover on December 25, 2004, at 10:52:16
Thanks Lar for that story. I printed it out and sent it to friends.
verne
Posted by ed_uk on December 25, 2004, at 12:16:03
In reply to Does evil exist?, posted by Larry Hoover on December 25, 2004, at 10:52:16
Hi Larry,
The DSM classifies Conduct Disorder and Anti-social Personality Disorder as being mental disorders. The 'symptoms' of ASPD read like a list of 'evil' personality traits.
For example ASPD may include.........
deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure
irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults
reckless disregard for safety of self or others
lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another
Diagnosing Conduct Disorder seem to be a euphemism for saying that someone is a truly horrible child!
Conduct Disorder includes........
Aggression to people and animals
often bullies, threatens, or intimidates others
often initiates physical fights
has used a weapon that can cause serious physical harm to others (e.g., a bat, brick, broken bottle, knife, gun)
has been physically cruel to people
has been physically cruel to animals
has stolen while confronting a victim (e.g., mugging, purse snatching, extortion, armed robbery)
has forced someone into sexual activity
Destruction of property
has deliberately engaged in fire setting with
the intention of causing serious damagehas deliberately destroyed others' property (other than by fire setting)
Deceitfulness or theft
has broken into someone else's house, building, or car
often lies to obtain goods or favors or to avoid obligations (i.e., "cons" others)
has stolen items of nontrivial value without confronting a victim (e.g., shoplifting, but without breaking and entering; forgery)
Posted by 64bowtie on December 25, 2004, at 13:02:04
In reply to Does evil exist?, posted by Larry Hoover on December 25, 2004, at 10:54:08
Lar,
Without us, mankind, personkind, evil has no traction. Repeating and protecting our multi-generational multi-layer dysfunction is an eerie match-up for what Hollywood portrays as evil.
Do an experiment, please. Select a book that has lotsa known evil in it and change every lie in the book into facts and details that refute the lies. Then read the story again, noticing how the story no longer works because there are all these disconnects in the plot. That disturbance in the time line is the territory where the evil in the story lerks. This is only one drill that comes to mind. See if you have other ways that dysfunction sucks us into acting as if we are evil personified.
OhByTheWay, Lar, good to see you and have a happy and merry time for the next nine days...
Rod
Posted by 64bowtie on December 25, 2004, at 13:42:48
In reply to Does evil exist?, posted by Larry Hoover on December 25, 2004, at 10:52:16
Lar,
As in the Albert Einstien story, dysfunction and dysfunctional are convenient absenses of function. Where this all becomes academic for me is when the multi-generational and multilayered dysfunctional gets snotty with me and says I'm crazy! They say (defensively), "My life is good and I wouldn't change a thing!", after showing up 20 minutes late for their weekly appointment because, for the umpteenth time, the dog ate their keys........
The freedom I flaunt is measurable by the time-value (ask your mortgage lender what I mean by that) of my freedom from my dysfunction and my dysfunctional past, present and future. The freedom gave me extra time to embrace the goodness, truth and beauty around me, which I find makes me feel happy, alot (high time-value existence). I have replaced much of my avoidance and my beliefs with discovery and perception, without losing a thing and actually gaining much.
Time has even seemed to slow down for me. And remember, according to likes of Al Einstien and Steve Hawking, time doesn't exist.......either! So is time evil??? I could be blocked from Babble for the answer I see in my mind's eye!!!
Curious! I harness my demons only to find myself back at the beginning, with the reality that, in fact, I had never left.
Rod
Posted by Bobby on December 25, 2004, at 16:30:14
In reply to Does evil exist?, posted by Larry Hoover on December 25, 2004, at 10:52:16
Christmas eve+mother of 4 +large SUV + cell phone+ 1 empty parking space = evil
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 25, 2004, at 18:15:58
In reply to Does evil exist? Yep! Us, ourselves, we do it! » Larry Hoover, posted by 64bowtie on December 25, 2004, at 13:02:04
> OhByTheWay, Lar, good to see you and have a happy and merry time for the next nine days...
>
> RodAm I supposed to stop after nine days? I'd rather not.
Merry Festive, Rod.
Lar
Posted by verne on December 25, 2004, at 19:02:56
In reply to Does evil exist?, posted by Larry Hoover on December 25, 2004, at 10:52:16
Lar,
I sent the story to my sister and she directed me to the following link questioning the authenticity of the story: http://www.positiveatheism.org/mail/eml8303.htm
I want to believe it. Do you have any evidence that Einstein was the student? (Good story nonetheless)
verne
Posted by 64bowtie on December 25, 2004, at 20:48:29
In reply to Does evil exist? Yep! Us, ourselves, we do it! » Larry Hoover, posted by 64bowtie on December 25, 2004, at 13:02:04
Posted by 64bowtie on December 25, 2004, at 20:51:37
In reply to Nine days is a good beginning... (nm) » 64bowtie, posted by 64bowtie on December 25, 2004, at 20:48:29
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 25, 2004, at 21:17:52
In reply to Re: Does evil exist? » Larry Hoover, posted by verne on December 25, 2004, at 19:02:56
> Lar,
>
> I sent the story to my sister and she directed me to the following link questioning the authenticity of the story: http://www.positiveatheism.org/mail/eml8303.htm
>
> I want to believe it. Do you have any evidence that Einstein was the student? (Good story nonetheless)
>
> verneNo, I do not have such evidence. I like the story because it said something about human nature, i.e. how we define something changes our ability to believe the definition. It's not a property of the defined concept that determines this, but how we contextualize and phrase the definition.
I came up with this, which corroborates the "mythical" nature of this story:
http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.aspThat said, the lack of evidence for its provenance does not preclude it from being Einstein's. What I know of the man tells me it may be so.
Here are a selection of Einstein quotations:
I cannot believe that God plays dice with the cosmos.
The wireless telegraph is not difficult to understand. The ordinary telegraph is like a very long cat. You pull the tail in New York, and it meows in Los Angeles. The wireless is the same, only without the cat.
Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour. Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a minute. THAT'S relativity.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe.
You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother.
I tried to imagine the easiest way God could have done it.
We have to do the best we can. This is our sacred human responsibility.
The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.
Example isn't another way to teach, it is the only way to teach.
Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts.
Lar
Posted by verne on December 25, 2004, at 22:50:21
In reply to Re: Does evil exist? » verne, posted by Larry Hoover on December 25, 2004, at 21:17:52
Lar,
I agree. I don't necessarily need Einstein as the student in the story because it's a good story in itself. It works without Einstein.
Thanks for the quotes. I knew Einstein believed in more than the "seen" but I didn't know how much so. A really great selection of quotes which I will pass along.
thanks,
verne
Posted by Dinah on December 26, 2004, at 9:09:06
In reply to Re: Does evil exist? » verne, posted by Larry Hoover on December 25, 2004, at 21:17:52
Intelligence and integrity is the most attractive combination in the universe.
So I'm in love with another dead guy. Just my luck. :)
Posted by rchrdtrck on December 26, 2004, at 11:53:22
In reply to I think I'm in love » Larry Hoover, posted by Dinah on December 26, 2004, at 9:09:06
It's an Urban Legend. Albert Einstein didn't believe in a personal God like the main religions do.
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 26, 2004, at 12:25:11
In reply to Urban Legend. » Dinah, posted by rchrdtrck on December 26, 2004, at 11:53:22
> It's an Urban Legend. Albert Einstein didn't believe in a personal God like the main religions do.
Einstein was a pantheist.
Lar
Posted by Dinah on December 26, 2004, at 13:04:34
In reply to Urban Legend. » Dinah, posted by rchrdtrck on December 26, 2004, at 11:53:22
I was actually referring to the other quotes.
Posted by Gabbix2 on December 26, 2004, at 13:46:24
In reply to Re: Urban Legend. » rchrdtrck, posted by Larry Hoover on December 26, 2004, at 12:25:11
> > It's an Urban Legend. Albert Einstein didn't believe in a personal God like the main religions do.
>
> Einstein was a pantheist.
>
> Lar
>
And a plagiarist and misogynist too! : )
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 26, 2004, at 13:58:28
In reply to Re: Urban Legend., posted by Gabbix2 on December 26, 2004, at 13:46:24
> > Einstein was a pantheist.
> >
> > Lar
> >
> And a plagiarist and misogynist too! : )Probably, and without doubt, respectively.
Lar
Posted by Dinah on December 26, 2004, at 14:45:50
In reply to Re: Urban Legend. » Gabbix2, posted by Larry Hoover on December 26, 2004, at 13:58:28
Posted by Toph on December 26, 2004, at 16:01:47
In reply to Does evil exist?, posted by Larry Hoover on December 25, 2004, at 10:52:16
Hi Lar,
It's a nice story. I love the cold, I'm part Norwegian, and I like the dark, as I said, I'm part Norwegian. I think the operative word in your tale is 'man.' Without man their is neither evil nor God, just matter, which Albert knew was neither good nor evil, until man, that is. I don't know how he lived with himself.
-Toph
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 27, 2004, at 3:08:51
In reply to Urban Legend. » Dinah, posted by rchrdtrck on December 26, 2004, at 11:53:22
> It's an Urban Legend...
When you're blocked, you're not supposed to post, so I've extended the duration of your block.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforce
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by NikkiT2 on December 27, 2004, at 6:22:17
In reply to I think I'm in love » Larry Hoover, posted by Dinah on December 26, 2004, at 9:09:06
Check our Prof. Stephen Hawking Dinah.. now that guy can blow your mind.
I once had the utter pleasure of having lunch with him (and 8 others!!), and the man has serious charisma.. now, you look at his circumstances and wonder how on earth he could. But he has a wicked sense of humour, and just a twitch of his lips let you know *exactly* how he feels about things.
A truly truly amazing guy!
Nikki x
Posted by Toph on December 27, 2004, at 6:44:26
In reply to Re: Does evil exist? » Larry Hoover, posted by Toph on December 26, 2004, at 16:01:47
OK, that was harsh. But Einstein sought the truth not myths his whole life, when he wasn't cheating on his wife, that is. You can look at it this way, there's a great dichotomy - matter and no matter plus phenomena, like change, the fertile delta. There is a force to change matter opposed by a force to maintain matter. Where matter is, how it is changing, and how fast it is changing, is, of course, all relative depending on your point of view. I have no way of knowing this but I think that Einstein, like me, like all of us including the most arrogant among us (on Earth not on PB), alternate between believing there is a God and believing there is no God. These beliefs can change in time, thank God, at least from my point of view.
Here's some postcards from a manic mind:
There are three basic drives in man: 1) to procreate, 2) to self propetuate, and 3) to self-pleasurate (I wanted 3 p's). Then there are three basic sins: 1) lying, 2) stealing and 3) hating. Mix them together and a whole lot of bad can happen. Make some rules about the second three (and their variations) and a whole lot of good can happen. I don't care who gets credit for the rules, I'm just glad they're there. The rules need to be relatively flexible depending on your point of view and man-made concepts of mercy, fairness and justice.
Here's what I have trouble with. Is knowlegde an inherently good thing or a bad thing? This apple that spoils the garden, that knocks some sense into Newton, that once split can kill efficiently and indiscriminately, is seductively powerful and dangerous. Is knowledge itself inherently evil or just how we apply it? When we figure out soon how to stop aging, how to clone ourselves to harvest organs to perpetuate our lives, who will govern this science? When we have computers and other technology (if we don't already) capable of monitoring and analyzing everyone's behavior will we use it? If Einstein made the deadly choice between bomb or no bomb presumably driven by the need to self-perpetuate his culture, who will be smart enough to lead the world to a place where truth prevails over lies, sharing is valued more than having, and love conquers hate?
-Toph
Posted by Atticus on December 27, 2004, at 20:27:07
In reply to Does evil exist?, posted by Larry Hoover on December 25, 2004, at 10:52:16
Albert Einstein was lucky enough not to live to see Barney the purple dinosaur -- pure unmitigated evil if ever I encountered it. Brrrr... Atticus
Posted by Jai Narayan on December 28, 2004, at 8:48:18
In reply to Re: Does evil exist? » Larry Hoover, posted by Atticus on December 27, 2004, at 20:27:07
> Albert Einstein was lucky enough not to live to see Barney the purple dinosaur -- pure unmitigated evil if ever I encountered it. Brrrr... Atticus
***okay shouldn't this be redirected to faith?
Or political?
or maybe relationship...
it could be eating...
(this whole conversation has made me hungry)...
Jai who just masticated a Barney burger
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