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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 46. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tabitha on February 7, 2003, at 1:55:22
Just watched the freaky 3 hours on TV. What's with people who are so delusional. He either really believes his face changed without surgery, or he thinks we'll believe it just because he says so.
We all have our blind spots but sheesh.
Posted by jodie on February 7, 2003, at 2:57:07
In reply to What is Michael Jackson's diagnosis?, posted by Tabitha on February 7, 2003, at 1:55:22
Hey, if he says so, it has to be true, its Michael Jackson!!! lol
Honestly, I get freaked out when I see his face. I almost feel sorry for him...almost
Posted by Tabitha on February 7, 2003, at 3:03:04
In reply to Michael Jackson, posted by jodie on February 7, 2003, at 2:57:07
This must be it... delusional disorderhttp://www.psychologynet.org/delusion.html
he's got the somatic type, persecution type, and grandiose type.
Posted by Rach on February 7, 2003, at 3:47:58
In reply to Re: Michael Jackson, posted by Tabitha on February 7, 2003, at 3:03:04
I've always thought he must have body dysmorphic disorder
(combined with various other depressive illnesses)
Posted by Ginjoint on February 7, 2003, at 6:24:10
In reply to What is Michael Jackson's diagnosis?, posted by Tabitha on February 7, 2003, at 1:55:22
...you know, where something bad is happening but you just can't take your eyes off of it. I hadn't planned on watching it, but I was quickly sucked into this vortex of Freaky Moments. There's some kind of mania at work (most unnerving for me was when he was feeding his kid a bottle...a simple act turned hair-raising). You could throw the DSM at this guy and every page would stick.
Ginjoint
Posted by NikkiT2 on February 7, 2003, at 6:55:06
In reply to Re: Michael Jackson, posted by Tabitha on February 7, 2003, at 3:03:04
I watched this when it was on in the UK.. I didn't find it awful.. I just felt incredibly sorry for MJ.. think of how he talks about his father (which has been backed up by stuff I have read the other brothers and sisters have said).. telling him he was ugly, that his nose was too fat..
Then, he's been right in the public eye since he was like 5 years old.. he's never had a normal childhood in any way.People on another website I sue were calling out for his kids to be taken away from him... why? cos he coveres their faces when they are in public?? I think Id be the same in his boat.. he doesn't want them recognised every instant of their lives..
And, who out of us *really* wants to grow up.. I know that with that amount of money I'd probably have something like a zoo, and hell, a fun fair just looks so cool in your back garden!
I just feel so sorry for the poor guy.
Nikki
Posted by tina on February 7, 2003, at 9:31:06
In reply to What is Michael Jackson's diagnosis?, posted by Tabitha on February 7, 2003, at 1:55:22
who cares?
I"ve seen snippets about MJ for days and days on the tele and I'm wondering WHY does anyone care what surgery he's had, where he lives, what he does? What is this fascination with this one strange little man? Slow news day????
Posted by tina on February 7, 2003, at 9:33:56
In reply to Michael Jackson's diagnosis? Gotta say......, posted by tina on February 7, 2003, at 9:31:06
anyone who IS interested. It was just a philosophical rant about the useless junk on tv in this day and age.
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on February 7, 2003, at 9:53:39
In reply to Re: Michael Jackson » Tabitha, posted by NikkiT2 on February 7, 2003, at 6:55:06
> I just feel so sorry for the poor guy.
---------------I'm with you. MJ is indeed a card carrying freak, but you don't get that way without some serious emotional trauma. Most people with his obsessions would need help to get along in society, but he's fortunate enough to be able to live it all out without going homeless. There are plenty of worse people.
Posted by mikhail99 on February 7, 2003, at 11:07:03
In reply to It was like watching a car wreck..., posted by Ginjoint on February 7, 2003, at 6:24:10
> ...you know, where something bad is happening but you just can't take your eyes off of it. I hadn't planned on watching it, but I was quickly sucked into this vortex of Freaky Moments. There's some kind of mania at work (most unnerving for me was when he was feeding his kid a bottle...a simple act turned hair-raising). You could throw the DSM at this guy and every page would stick.
>
> GinjointThanks Ginjoint, you gave me such a good laugh!
:-D I loved your comment about throwing the DSM at him, how perfect!!
Posted by NikkiT2 on February 7, 2003, at 11:58:08
In reply to Re: It was like watching a car wreck... » Ginjoint, posted by mikhail99 on February 7, 2003, at 11:07:03
My panic goes through very definitive cycles.. but I've only been able to recognise this since seeing Maggie (my psychologist).
First I get the pin pricking in my forehead, spreading to cheeks and necks.. then straight away my stomach will tighten and the whirling feeling in stomach will start. Then comes the heart beats, which seem so huge I can hear the blood rushing in my ears. When this comes while I'm in bed I swear the beats are so heavy I can see my duvet moving.
If I am out and can't find somewhere I feel safe, I will often start retching. When I'm at home I will change the room I am in. That sometimes helps. Or I will start an activity (I always have a cross stitch on the go so I can try and concentrate on doing some of that.) Or find an old re-run of something I once enjoyed on cable tv..
Never found a med that helps with this. If I take enough valium I can sleep through it though.. but docs won't prescribe that :o(
CBT is *really* helping it though. I can't put my finger on what we did that was the key, but after 4 months my panic attacks had stopped, and my anxiety attacks are down to one a week or so.. and I now seem to have the skills of talking myself down from it.
Good luck..
Nikki
Posted by Tabitha on February 7, 2003, at 12:11:15
In reply to It was like watching a car wreck..., posted by Ginjoint on February 7, 2003, at 6:24:10
So true about the DSM. One annoyance, on the show BabaWawa told us the father and one brother denied the child abuse, yet she didn't say that LaToya and Jermaine have corroborated it. They were just trying to make him look like a total liar. The obvious lying about the plastic surgery will make folks doubt him about everything else.
Now I'm convinced, he's more than eccectric, he is really delusional. He's just going to get judged for it all, condemned as a liar and a pervert. More ignorance about mental illness. The guy can't help himself. He needs serious professional help. But please keep him away from children while he gets it.
The interviewer said Michael just needs to grow up. Yup, snap out of it, dude. Same old same old attitude.
They had a plastic surgeon analyzing the evidence, a journalist giving his analysis, yet why not one mental health professional giving us ignorant masses a little perspective and information?
Posted by stjames on February 7, 2003, at 12:15:36
In reply to Michael Jackson's diagnosis? Gotta say......, posted by tina on February 7, 2003, at 9:31:06
> who cares?
Given that he paid off a boy many millions of $$
because the boy could ID specific birth marks
on MJ's genitals this begs the question as to his fitness to be around kids.
Posted by beardedlady on February 7, 2003, at 12:24:02
In reply to Re: It was like watching a car wreck..., posted by Tabitha on February 7, 2003, at 12:11:15
I guess it's because everybody knows he is sick. It doesn't take much analysis to see that this guy, who was a performing star since the age of six, never had a childhood and suffered from his father's verbal abuse and that because of it, he grew up to be a child with terrible self-esteem issues.
I don't know that this is about judging him as much as it is about judging those around him. He is a self-professed Peter Pan, a perpetual boy. Who are the aiders and abettors here who have allowed a boy to raise two children?
As for Tina's "who cares?": I'm inclined to agree, but Ginjoint was sooooo right about the train wreck. And some are more prone to craning for a peek than others. While I don't slow down to eye an accident on the beltway, I had to slow down for this, especially since I was in an ugly sleep clinic awaiting my electrodes.
So it's less about "blaming" and "judging" him than it is about wondering why he is allowed to care for children when it is painfully obvious he can't properly care for himself.
I feel sorry for him too. The real pity is that he doesn't think anything is wrong with him.
beardy
Posted by judy1 on February 7, 2003, at 13:13:29
In reply to Why no MDs? » Tabitha, posted by beardedlady on February 7, 2003, at 12:24:02
Mainly for the children in his care- they have so little chance of growing up normal. And with his *billions*, MJ doesn't have to follow society's rules like the rest of us. What he does to himself is his business, but when it involves children I feel ill- judy
Posted by stjames on February 7, 2003, at 13:39:44
In reply to I just found it so sad, posted by judy1 on February 7, 2003, at 13:13:29
> Mainly for the children in his care- they have so little chance of growing up normal. And with his *billions*, MJ doesn't have to follow society's rules like the rest of us. What he does to himself is his business, but when it involves children I feel ill- judy
It really burns me up when people say "who cares"
when the evidence is clear he is a peodiplile.
I have read several reports from his ex-staff
that he was sleeping with the young children. WHO CARES about his face !!!!!! I care about the children. How could anyone watch that show, miss the clear sickness there, and say "Who cares" !!!!The other consern is his wealth, which allows him to continues having chilren and abusing them.
Posted by Ted on February 7, 2003, at 14:11:47
In reply to Michael Jackson's diagnosis? Gotta say......, posted by tina on February 7, 2003, at 9:31:06
Tina,
>What is this fascination with this one strange little man? Slow news day????
Right you are. I cannot understand the great interest everyone has in him. I think I was the only one not to have watched the interview at my work.
Then again, I cannot understand what the big deal is with the World Series, the World Cup, the Super Bowl, etc. I never watched a single one of them. Never.
Maybe it's just me....
Ted
Posted by Ted on February 7, 2003, at 14:17:47
In reply to Re: I just found it so sad, posted by stjames on February 7, 2003, at 13:39:44
> It really burns me up when people say "who cares"
> when the evidence is clear he is a peodiplile.So just treat him like a pedophile: Put him in jail, send him to court, convict him, and put him in prison.
Don't grant him fame and publicity. Don't give him any "special" treatment because he is a "celebrity".
Ted
Posted by jodie on February 7, 2003, at 15:21:17
In reply to Michael Jackson, posted by jodie on February 7, 2003, at 2:57:07
Poor children... The man DOES need help, at least for the childrens sake.
Honestly I do feel sorry for him, but he is not the only one with emotional problems, mental illnesses, and whatever else he may have.
Posted by stjames on February 7, 2003, at 16:23:58
In reply to Michael Jackson's diagnosis? Gotta say......, posted by tina on February 7, 2003, at 9:31:06
> who cares?
what he does?It is not clear to me what you are saying here.
By saying "who cares.....what he does" it seems
you don't care what is happening to his kids.
I suspect that is not what you are saying, could you clarify ?I will agree with 100% about the other stuff, but for me that is not why I watched the show. I am conserned only about the kids.
Posted by paxvox on February 7, 2003, at 18:50:20
In reply to What is Michael Jackson's diagnosis?, posted by Tabitha on February 7, 2003, at 1:55:22
Well, to be as "civil" as possible,
he's a f*cking freak of nature.PAX
Posted by Rach on February 8, 2003, at 1:15:58
In reply to Re: Michael Jackson » Tabitha, posted by NikkiT2 on February 7, 2003, at 6:55:06
I agree, Nik. I think he is a disturbed person, but not someone who is doing anything disturbing (the tree, the sleeping with children).
However, I do find it disturbing that he covers his children's faces. I think he is harming them by creating in them the belief that they are very different to other people. Perhaps even giving them the sense that they are less than other people, or that they are wrong in some way. I don't think his kids should be taken off him, but I do think that the mother or a mother figure needs to be present in their lives. And some normalcy, like going to the zoo without masks.
Posted by dreamerz on February 8, 2003, at 1:56:07
In reply to Re: Michael Jackson » NikkiT2, posted by Rach on February 8, 2003, at 1:15:58
He wants to do the moonwalk on the moon which would cost billions..get the money by advertising.
The image that comes to mind cracks me up.
He freaky but he can afford it--didn't see program but seems a gentle , kind guy.
Posted by Alara on February 8, 2003, at 2:38:48
In reply to Re: Michael Jackson » NikkiT2, posted by Rach on February 8, 2003, at 1:15:58
OK, here's my theory:
The preoccupation that he has with his face is a manifestation of the deep shame surrounding his childhood abuse, sexual issues etc. To create another layer over that shame, he's projecting his face-hiding complex onto the children... He has a need to protect(`blanket') himself and the children while simultaneously hiding them to cover the shame.
Although Michael didn't specifically say that he was sexually molested as a child, I have a strong suspicion that this was an issue. Victims of childhood sexual abuse are often disturbed (and confused) by the conflicting shame, pain and occasional physical pleasure. If this is what happened to Michael, then he has carried this complex into adulthood and has a disturbing compulsion to repeat the experience in order to conquer it. To lessen the guilt and to maintain denial, he creates a delusional world in which he acquires a `Peter Pan' persona, an identity which is so innocent that it absolves him of any paedophilic tendencies.
I feel very sorry for Michael Jackson. Even if he has sexually interfered with children, he maintains the delusion that he is innocent - just as he maintains the somatic delusion that his face is naturally `changing'. He truly believes that he is innocent.
After all, he was robbed of his childhood.
Posted by noa on February 8, 2003, at 11:38:04
In reply to psychological profile, posted by Alara on February 8, 2003, at 2:38:48
I know it's only one aspect of the facial changes he has gone through, but do you think the skin disorder that makes him lose pigment is real? I think it is probably real and just adds to the psychological issues about his face.
He might have body dismorphic disorder, no? He did talk about how his father ridiculed his "wide" nose.
It also looked to me like at least one of the children had his hair bleached.
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