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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Dinah on February 2, 2003, at 19:05:32
In reply to Re: Being sensitive is not a sin » Dinah, posted by judy1 on February 2, 2003, at 17:05:15
Posted by IsoM on February 2, 2003, at 20:20:32
In reply to Re: Don't fret IsoM, posted by Phil on February 2, 2003, at 7:27:50
Thanks, Phil. I'm honestly not the least bit upset by all this. I find it interesting that such a reaction has happened because of my original post - sure is an eye-opener on diff people's reactions. But I'm feeling quite untouched by it all. My interjections were only to explain that *I* thought they were jokes about etiquette. I didn't know real rednecks existed, being the naive Canadian that I am. So why should I feel guilty when my intentions were innocent?
(And if anyone else reads this & tries to post a response to my feeling of lack of guilt, I'm not planning on reading anything further in this ridiculous thread.)
Posted by shar on February 2, 2003, at 22:17:30
In reply to Re: The meaning has changed, posted by Phil on February 2, 2003, at 16:21:18
> I knew lots of people with cars in their yard, etc. but many were very cool people and good friends. But I also knew business men who were rednecks.
> None of it had to do with poverty especially or many of the other definitions.
> Jeff Foxworthy started a comedy routine that changed the definition and I honestly think he's a very funny guy.
> Growing up in Texas, I can promise you, if Jeff Foxworthy walked into a "redneck bar" they would be begging for more jokes and laughing their butts off.Man, I love that one thing that Foxworthy talks about--watching a working TV that's sitting on a nonworking console TV. hahahahaha. That is so true, and so funny! I grew up with that!
Shar
Posted by Phil on February 3, 2003, at 6:10:11
In reply to Re: The meaning has changed » Phil, posted by shar on February 2, 2003, at 22:17:30
Shar
There isn't much he says that doesn't crack me up. Guess you just gotta be one!
Phil
Posted by syringachalet on February 3, 2003, at 9:00:45
In reply to Re: The meaning has changed » shar, posted by Phil on February 3, 2003, at 6:10:11
Phil,
I think Jeff Foxworthy is a hoot!!
Hes kind of like a Forest Gump...everybody knows one and even though they may not always be the smartest people on the planet or 'politically correct'--more times not-- they are mostly good decent nice people who just dont take themselves too seriously.
P.S. I especially like his Olympics video.
syringachalet
Posted by OddipusRex on February 3, 2003, at 9:55:04
In reply to Re: The meaning has changed, posted by syringachalet on February 3, 2003, at 9:00:45
My objection to ethnic jokes is that they dehumanize groups of people. It is a subtle form of racism which often leads to outright discrimination. My objection has nothing to do with whether I like or dislike Rednecks. I suspect that they are as varied as any other group of people.
Jeff Foxworthy doesn't define rednecks. Or does he? He has made a lot of money promoting his caricature and seems to have had a lot of success. Is it a good thing to let a comedian change the definition of a term? Is it okay to stereotype a whole group of people if you show them as lovable buffoons?
If Amos and Andy had been allowed to define an entire ethnic group,would that be alright? They were funny. If it's funny is it okay?
Are rap songs about niggers and whores just a change of definition and a good thing?
Just asking. I don't think this thread is ridiculous at all. Though it certainly wasn't what I expected!
Posted by OddipusRex on February 3, 2003, at 10:03:21
In reply to Re: Ethnic Jokes » OddipusRex, posted by judy1 on February 2, 2003, at 16:18:25
Thanks Judy. I wish I had found it before I posted anything. Maybe I could have handled it better. Maybe I should have just gone to Admin and asked about ethnic jokes in general.
> thanks so much for the site, it really helped me with ways to handle ethnic jokes. I am guilty of not confronting even when something said makes me uncomfortable, I plan on practicing the response 4 method until I feel comfortable using it. take care, judy
Posted by syringachalet on February 3, 2003, at 10:07:10
In reply to Changing the meaning, posted by OddipusRex on February 3, 2003, at 9:55:04
OddipusRex,..I get a kick out of that name.. Othello would rollover in his grave...LMAO
If you are that easily offended by someone telling a harmless joke, I am truly sorry for you.
P.S. I AM offended when people use the "N"
word in my presence.That term used in the general population really does show racial bigotry and a lack of your ability to communicate without biasis.
I thought you were more intelligent than that.
I am very disappointed.syringachalet
Posted by OddipusRex on February 3, 2003, at 10:23:16
In reply to Re: I do feel better. Thanks for asking. (nm) » judy1, posted by Dinah on February 2, 2003, at 19:05:32
I hope your feeling okay. I appreciate your opinions. I think being sensitive is a mixed blessing. Being overwhelmed by my feelings can really get in the way sometimes. I am trying to cultivate a little detachment but it's not easy. And being sensitive is just part of who I am, it's not optional. If people were suggesting that I just try to be a little less stupid it would be easier to do than trying to just be a little less sensitive.Of course being so sensitive I'd probably get upset about being told to be less stupid ;-)
I think I'll try to keep my feelings out of things from now on. The problem with all those "I feel" statements is that if I say "I feel hurt when you say...." the person who was saying that may just know they've hit the target and come back with more!
And my case against ethnic humor isn't based on my personal feelings. It's based on respect for human dignity and the value of the individual.
You said once these things don't bother you as much any more and I think that's encouraging! It doesn't bother me as much as it did that first night either.
Thanks for the support.
Posted by OddipusRex on February 3, 2003, at 10:30:41
In reply to Changing the meaning, posted by OddipusRex on February 3, 2003, at 9:55:04
Post corrected to include quotation marks to emphacize that I was referring to the WORDS used in rap songs. Sorry I thought my meaning was apparent. My mistake. I object to those words to. That was my point actually :-) Sorry you were offended Syringachalet.
> My objection to ethnic jokes is that they dehumanize groups of people. It is a subtle form of racism which often leads to outright discrimination. My objection has nothing to do with whether I like or dislike Rednecks. I suspect that they are as varied as any other group of people.
>
> Jeff Foxworthy doesn't define rednecks. Or does he? He has made a lot of money promoting his caricature and seems to have had a lot of success. Is it a good thing to let a comedian change the definition of a term? Is it okay to stereotype a whole group of people if you show them as lovable buffoons?
>
> If Amos and Andy had been allowed to define an entire ethnic group,would that be alright? They were funny. If it's funny is it okay?
>
> Are rap songs about "niggers" and "whores" just a change of definition and a good thing?
>
> Just asking. I don't think this thread is ridiculous at all. Though it certainly wasn't what I expected!
>
>
Posted by coral on February 3, 2003, at 10:31:25
In reply to Being sensitive » Dinah, posted by OddipusRex on February 3, 2003, at 10:23:16
You said, "The problem with all those "I feel" statements is that if I say "I feel hurt when you say...." the person who was saying that may just know they've hit the target and come back with more!" What a very sad statement. I have one person in my world who would "come back with more" and I only have contact with this person due to family entanglements. Obviously, I never expose myself or admit feelings of hurt for exactly the reasons you gave. The other people in my world hear my statements and know that it's a sensitive area and proceed with gentle caution if something further needs to be said. (It took a lot of time for me to learn how to express myself so intimately, though... and trust of others.)
Posted by Dinah on February 3, 2003, at 10:35:04
In reply to Re: Changing the meaning, posted by syringachalet on February 3, 2003, at 10:07:10
> OddipusRex,..I get a kick out of that name.. Othello would rollover in his grave...LMAO
>
> If you are that easily offended by someone telling a harmless joke, I am truly sorry for you.
>
I assume that also applies to me. No need to feel sorry for me. And this is what I meant by what I said before. Unless I am misunderstanding you.>
> P.S. I AM offended when people use the "N"
> word in my presence.
>
> That term used in the general population really does show racial bigotry and a lack of your ability to communicate without biasis.
>
> I thought you were more intelligent than that.
> I am very disappointed.
>
> syringachaletI strongly suspect you misunderstood Rex's meaning.
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 3, 2003, at 10:39:38
In reply to Changing the meaning, posted by OddipusRex on February 3, 2003, at 9:55:04
Oddipus Rex,
You wrote,[...defining a whole group of people...]. Thank you for introducing this concept here. If I was to be allowed to make a rule page for these type of posts in question here, I would state that it is not OK to post anything that [...defines a whole group of people...] unless the post meets the following conditions, and then I would list the conditions, if any, that could qualify for an exemption.
Then there is the concept that [...if it is funny, to some,...does that excuse it?...]
Thanks for bringing into focus what I believe is the central issues here, since we are posting on a mental-health board and the potential for some to be dehumanized by these type of posts could be a factor in limiting. or prohibiting, their postings.
Thanks again,
Lou
Posted by OddipusRex on February 3, 2003, at 10:42:51
In reply to Re: Being sensitive, posted by coral on February 3, 2003, at 10:31:25
Yes it is sad. I was referring my "I feel" statements in this thread to this thread particularly. But I think in general people who would defend ethnic slurs probably don't care much about other people's feelings. So I was thinking it would be better to try to reason with people than ask them to care about my feelings.
And more effective.But it doesn't carry over into ALL my real life so it's not totally sad. I was mostly talking about dealing with the board where I really don't know who's out there. I'm glad you learned to trust. I know it's really hard for some people including me. Thanks for the sympathy.
> You said, "The problem with all those "I feel" statements is that if I say "I feel hurt when you say...." the person who was saying that may just know they've hit the target and come back with more!" What a very sad statement. I have one person in my world who would "come back with more" and I only have contact with this person due to family entanglements. Obviously, I never expose myself or admit feelings of hurt for exactly the reasons you gave. The other people in my world hear my statements and know that it's a sensitive area and proceed with gentle caution if something further needs to be said. (It took a lot of time for me to learn how to express myself so intimately, though... and trust of others.)
>
Posted by Dinah on February 3, 2003, at 10:46:07
In reply to Being sensitive » Dinah, posted by OddipusRex on February 3, 2003, at 10:23:16
> And my case against ethnic humor isn't based on my personal feelings. It's based on respect for human dignity and the value of the individual.
>
I understood that perfectly. It's how I feel myself. I do think that perfectly nice people have differences of opinions on redneck jokes, because they disagree on intent and definitions.> You said once these things don't bother you as much any more and I think that's encouraging! It doesn't bother me as much as it did that first night either.
>
> Thanks for the support.Apparently I have to retract that. It does bother me some. It reminds me just too much of junior high, where not only did people make fun of you, but then you were disparaged for being too sensitive at not enjoying being made fun of. Injury to injury. I think if one more person says in effect to lighten up and can't you take a joke, without at least a token effort at understanding my position, I'm going to scream loud and long.
And since that may be amusing to watch, perhaps I shouldn't have admitted that.
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 3, 2003, at 10:55:38
In reply to Re: Being sensitive » OddipusRex, posted by Dinah on February 3, 2003, at 10:46:07
Dinah,
You wrote,[...based on human dignity and the value of the individual...]
Thanks for saying it in those terms what I have been writing about also. You see, I believe that to [overcome] requiers that we be able to see the [value] in our existance and the [dignity] of our selves.
Thanks,
Lou
Posted by NikkiT2 on February 3, 2003, at 11:50:25
In reply to Re: Being sensitive » coral, posted by OddipusRex on February 3, 2003, at 10:42:51
is it just jokes regarding ethnicity that anger you though??
I am just interested in whether you do tell jokes, and whether you realise that, as a rule, a joke is making fun of someone in someway..
Nikki
Posted by OddipusRex on February 3, 2003, at 12:11:15
In reply to Oddipuss, posted by NikkiT2 on February 3, 2003, at 11:50:25
> is it just jokes regarding ethnicity that anger you though??
No , anything that demeans or stereotypes an entire group of people would be unacceptable. I also wouldn't think jokes about schizophrenics or quadraplegics would be funny. I also think there needs to be sensitivity to the audience. For instance kidding a friend about something would be different from reading ethnic jokes over the intercom at school.
>
> I am just interested in whether you do tell jokes, and whether you realise that, as a rule, a joke is making fun of someone in someway..
>
I occasionally tell jokes. And believe it or not I frequently laugh at other peoples jokes. I of course think the same principles would apply to me as to anyone else. I don't agree that jokes always make fun in the sense of stereotyping or dehumanizing people. I think jokes about individuals are different than jokes about groups. For example I think a joke about Colin Powell would be different than a joke about "African Americans". I think the safest jokes end up being the ones about ourselves.
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 3, 2003, at 13:24:41
In reply to Re: Oddipus » NikkiT2, posted by OddipusRex on February 3, 2003, at 12:11:15
OR,
You wrote,[...a joke about Colin powell...].
You have brought up a good concept called the [public figure] concept. In the United states, it has been recognised from the conception of our country that people that are deemed to be a[public figure], are classified differently than those that are not. You will see plenty of parody and jokes about Goerge W. Bush and Tony Blair in the newspapers and they accept it as part of being a public figure.
Thanks,
Lou
Posted by Tabitha on February 3, 2003, at 13:33:15
In reply to Re: Being sensitive » OddipusRex, posted by Dinah on February 3, 2003, at 10:46:07
Dinah, I have to laugh at that, you've captured junior high herd mentality so perfectly. I hope it's not so black and white anymore. Some people will react that way, but some will react like adults. Personally I still don't feel safe admitting hurt feelings where even one person is going to ridicule me for it, because admitting hurt feelings is difficult for me.
I just really wish it was safe here for us all to process our feelings, but I don't think it is.
Posted by Ritch on February 3, 2003, at 13:42:02
In reply to Re: The meaning has changed » Phil, posted by shar on February 2, 2003, at 22:17:30
> > I knew lots of people with cars in their yard, etc. but many were very cool people and good friends. But I also knew business men who were rednecks.
>
> > None of it had to do with poverty especially or many of the other definitions.
> > Jeff Foxworthy started a comedy routine that changed the definition and I honestly think he's a very funny guy.
> > Growing up in Texas, I can promise you, if Jeff Foxworthy walked into a "redneck bar" they would be begging for more jokes and laughing their butts off.
>
> Man, I love that one thing that Foxworthy talks about--watching a working TV that's sitting on a nonworking console TV. hahahahaha. That is so true, and so funny! I grew up with that!
>
> SharLol! My parents had an old console TV/stereo that was all vacuum tubes, and it finally just petered out and it stayed right where it was. They got a "fancy" new 19" Hitachi (back in the mid-70's) and parked it right on top. Hey, you aren't going to throw a perfectly decent tabletop out in the trash now are you? Another thing, another uncle of mine (I had seven), worked for the telephone company and they had all of those wooden cable spools. My parents didn't have one of those, but I have sure seen my share. :-)
I never liked country and western music much. However, my Mom's 78's of Hank Williams Sr, and Cowboy Copas, etc., those were kinda cool to listen to....
Posted by coral on February 3, 2003, at 13:59:04
In reply to Re: Oddipus » OddipusRex, posted by Lou Pilder on February 3, 2003, at 13:24:41
Dear Lou;
You've brought up an interesting point. Bill Clinton has been the brunt of jokes because of his sexual misconduct and jokes were made about Janet Reno because of her looks. I see those two as very different.
Coral
Posted by IsoM on February 3, 2003, at 13:59:52
In reply to Re: The meaning has changed » shar, posted by Ritch on February 3, 2003, at 13:42:02
Ah, Mitch, I love your view of life. And what's wrong with those huge spools? A little work on them & they make wonderful low coffee tables or sitting-around-eating-sushi type tables. I hate to see all that wood wasted. I'm the stereotypical "don't throw that out - I'll find a use for it" person. If no use of it's made in a year, then I get strict with myself & throw it out or pass it to the next person who'll find a use for it. I like the eclectic look & believe it or not, it's very tasteful when I'm finished with it.
I *LOATHE* country & western music. Maybe that's why I never knew any rednecks. But I love the old Marty Robbins songs like Cool Water & El Paso. I was around 9-11 when they came out & my parents listened to them on their old vacuum tube radio. I'm not what you'd ever classify as a redneck, but I was 12 before we had a flush toilet. It was the old outhouse in the back. I just grew up very, very poor. I couldn't wait to be old/tall enough to haul water out of the well like my older brothers, but my father put a old fashioned pump in the kitchen sink before I got tall enough for that. But I sure did my share of chopping wood for the cook stove. It must've been hell for my Mom back then - canning winter supplies in the heat of summer over a wood cook stove. But I had the happiest childhood memories (minus my very harsh father).
P.S. Ever heard of the Leningrad Cowboys? I saw a documentary/entertainment show on them once. They're Scandinavian guys who spoke no English & played old rock & country songs & polkas. They had the most exaggerated pompadour hairstyles I'd ever seen. They're hilarious. Sort of a mostly unknown cult status in North America. They've gotten a little flashier & added a couple women to the band but they're still very funny & entertaining.
Here's a link to the band members (just in case you're crazy enough to check them out)!
http://www.leningradcowboys.fi/frameset_band.html
Posted by syringachalet on February 3, 2003, at 14:14:53
In reply to Re: Changing the meaning (correction), posted by OddipusRex on February 3, 2003, at 10:30:41
I think I would like us to talk about something that doesnt continue to irritated so many people.
Anyone got an good ideas?
How about everyone think of ONE legal stress reducer that they use daily that might help someone else here? (and let try to keep it clean here, guys...)
I use bubble baths and one ounce of really good chocolate each week.syringachalet
Posted by Dinah on February 3, 2003, at 15:55:05
In reply to Re: Being sensitive » Dinah, posted by Tabitha on February 3, 2003, at 13:33:15
LOL Tabitha. Wasn't junior high the worst? It seems a lot of people have those memories. You're right, a lot of people have outgrown that. In fact, I went (believe it or not!) to my junior high reunion, and a few of the tormentors were really nice. A few weren't.
I guess that's where I run into problems. I persist in thinking it's safe here. :) Which it generally is.
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