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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by MJT76 on August 24, 2002, at 13:54:43
I was harassed by a former manager earlier this year. I reported the harassment to my employer's Human Resources Department. In short, Human Resources did nothing, the manager retaliated against me and was then promoted. To date nothing has been done to resolve the issue. Since all of this I have experienced anxiety and panic attacks and more recently what my doctor considers depression. I am currently prescribed with Paxil and a generic form of Xanax for anxiety. I hate taking this medication almost as much as having these illnesses. They leave me tired, unable to concentrate and just not myself. I have applied for short-term disability through my employer and have been tasked with selecting a psychologist through my insurance plan. My employer's Disability Services sent me a huge evaluation this psychologist must fill out and return.
I guess I'm looking for general advice. I'm extremely nervous about meeting with a psychologist and have never before seen a behavioral health specialist. I'm more nervous due to the fact that the results of this evaluation determine my eligibility for such a disability leave. I can't sleep and keep thinking I may say something wrong that influences this specialist to consider me capable of functioning normally. When in fact, it's in the work environment itself that I experience the severity of these attacks. Has anyone been through something similar or have any advice or thoughts on my situation?
Thanks
MJT76
Posted by gloryb on August 28, 2002, at 12:14:50
In reply to Re: Harassment/Depression/Disability (nm) » MJT76, posted by gloryb on August 28, 2002, at 12:02:29
Sorry--for some reason my first post just
went in as a post and was empty. New here :).I want you to know there are those who know how
you feel. I've done the drill. The bad boss,
the panic on the job (and humiliation from my
boss), the inevitable psychologist, etc. I
was fortunate in a weird way. I was suffering from
some physical conditions and went out on physical
disability. Although I probably could have
gone out psychologically as well at that point!It's the usual thing to worry what the doc will
do when disability is involved. I hate to say
that never goes away. You always wonder if you'll
find a doc who says, "you look (seem) ok to me"
when you know you aren't. The thing is to
be honest and keep your doctor appts and be
sure there is a good record of your progress.For you it will require some time with a psych
doc. Whatever you do don't feel intimidated by
that. They understand what stresses can do to
people. Having anxiety and panic over a boss is
not new to them. I know the lady I saw sure
heard about it :)!Be sure you tell about specifics. If they
hear what the job is doing to you they will
surely see you need some time off.Does your business have leaves of absence?
If you can't get the short-term disability
you might be able to do that if you can do
so financially. You definitely need to get
away from that job!Let us know how you do.
gloryb
Posted by MJT76 on August 28, 2002, at 14:48:40
In reply to Re: Harassment/Depression/Disability » gloryb, posted by gloryb on August 28, 2002, at 12:14:50
Thanks for the advice. It feels better just knowing that someone else understands me.
I meet with the psychologist tomorrow. I chose a woman hoping to feel more comfortable.
My company does offer leaves of absence, however I wouldn't be able to survive financially.
Between the invasive forms I have to fill out and having to prove my illness to the same people who chose to do nothing about the harassment only makes me feel like I'm the one being accused or investigated.
This has been so miserable. These people think that just because the harassment itself has stopped that my life just goes back to normal. My life has only gotten worse.
Anyway, thanks so much for your words.
MJT76
Posted by coral on August 28, 2002, at 17:57:45
In reply to Re: Harassment/Depression/Disability » gloryb, posted by MJT76 on August 28, 2002, at 14:48:40
May I strongly suggest that you also see another therapist at your own expense? IF the company doc doesn't acknowledge your difficulties, having your own doc is a great back-up. Depending on the type of harassment, you may get a better response with an outside agency.
Posted by gloryb on August 29, 2002, at 6:29:54
In reply to Re: Harassment/Depression/Disability, posted by coral on August 28, 2002, at 17:57:45
I agree that using an outside person would be
better. If that doc is working in some way for
that company they will be looking for reasons
not to grant your disability.Unfortunately, some places have rules saying
that their own docs have to approve things.For example, my husband works for the city of
Baltimore and is dealing with a similar situation
after falling on the job (trying to catch a 12yr
old thief!). He goes to the orthopedic doc who
says he needs limited duty and then further
surgery, but for the city to believe him he has
to visit the city clinic.Unfortunately, the scam artists over the years
have caused those of us who are honest to deal
with suspicion from our jobs. That is very sad.
We don't need that on top of everything else!
Posted by gloryb on August 29, 2002, at 6:38:57
In reply to Re: Harassment/Depression/Disability » gloryb, posted by MJT76 on August 28, 2002, at 14:48:40
It makes sense to me that things are worse even
though the harrassment itself has stopped. I had
my job problems 10 years ago and it bothers me
to this day. I still question myself, have
low self-esteem, etc, etc. It's not as bad
as it was a few years ago. But I've been away
from the place for a while and that helps.Unfortunately our jobs become a way that we
define ourselves and anything that happens that
makes us feel we have not succeeded feels like
a life-failure. Remember--that boss is one person
and while the person had power over you for a
while, their opinion of you is just a human opinion.Actually you are lucky they were promoted! I know
it's aggravating. I'd have been furious if my boss
had been promoted after what she did. But look
at it this way---that boss is gone! I think I'd
have only been upset for a short time if she'd
have been promoted. Then it would have been great
dealing with someone else.Start looking forward and be glad there's a new
situation. You can almost start fresh. Knowing
that means that when you can return to work it
won't be under the harrassing situation that
caused your troubles to begin with.Do you think a job change would help?
Anyway, I would hope the person you see would understand
the lingering effects of such things. I wish you
well and let us know how it all turns out.
Posted by MJT76 on August 29, 2002, at 8:44:48
In reply to Re: Harassment/Depression/Disability » MJT76, posted by gloryb on August 29, 2002, at 6:38:57
I work for Bank One, one of the largest banks in the nation. You would think that a corporation of this size would recognize the consequences of supporting such unethical behavior.
I do feel more comfortable with the manager I now report to. However,with my condition, I don't see much of her. In terms of the promotion my former manager received, it actually translates into more power over me. This person now has even more control over the decision surrounding my career.
I think the reason I still suffer such attacks at work is not just the result of seeing this manager that affects me. I was humiliated in front of groups of coworkers during the harassment period of 4 months. This often led to laughter and other comments. I still see these people everyday. I confided in several managers in Human Resources as well and they all sided with my former manager. So, there is a great distrust I have for the company itself now.
A change in job would definitely help, but I worked hard getting this job, trained for 6 weeks and put 100% of myself into it everyday. It's extremely unjust to think that I now have to find another job.
The psychologist I've selected was through my insurance company referred by my primary care physician.
In doing some research online I am convinced that this is a serious legal issue in terms of the harassment, what was done about it and what it has led to.
I'll definitely let you know what happens. Please keep the advice coming, it helps greatly. Thank you so much.
MJT76
Posted by gloryb on August 29, 2002, at 20:50:07
In reply to Re: Harassment/Depression/Disability -Thanks, posted by MJT76 on August 29, 2002, at 8:44:48
You wrote:
>A change in job would definitely help, but I worked hard getting this job, trained
>for 6 weeks and put 100% of myself into it everyday. It's extremely unjust to think
>that I now have to find another jobThat is exactly how I felt!!! I knew I would not
get mental comfort until I got out of there, but
I kept telling myself it wasn't my fault and
why should I suffer, etc.The more of your story you tell the more I
relate! I had the humiliation and some laughter.
Fortunately the boss lady didn't get more
power over me, but the power she had was more
than enough.Could you transfer within your company? Would
the human resources dept understand this, even
though they side with the manager? (BTW---they
*always* do!) Maybe if you told them that
no matter who they thought was at fault the
conditions for you are such that you feel you
could be more productive and feel more motivated
in another department. They might understand.Does your company have an employee assistance
department? Mine did. And after I was demoted
I was told I could use it if I wanted. I asked
her why she didn't make that offer before and
I got some crazy answer like she thought I'd
have gotten angry if she'd have done that. I
guess she thought I'd prefer demotion.This might be a case of knowing "when to hold 'em
and when to fold 'em." I wish I'd realized.
There are always options. The one you are going
for is one. Transferring and leaving are others.
But your mental health comes first!
Posted by mashogr8 on August 30, 2002, at 20:59:32
In reply to Re: Harassment/Depression/Disability -Thanks » MJT76, posted by gloryb on August 29, 2002, at 20:50:07
I'm sorry that you are having to go through such a difficult time. There must be some other avenues that are available to you when Human Resources does not provide a response (even if they were to deny your side, they should at least acknowledge you). At any rate, I would contact the Attorney General's office in your state (assuming you are in US) and ask what your rights are. I know I just got a copy of my rights of harassment and sexual harassment laws (we get a copy every year at the start of the new school year). In fact, they were from the HR office. Have you asked your Human Relations office for a copy of the rules and regulations that they are following?
Good luck.
MA
Posted by coral on September 1, 2002, at 11:28:10
In reply to Re: Harassment/Depression/Disability » coral, posted by gloryb on August 29, 2002, at 6:29:54
Sadly, a lot of companies respond inappropriately when problems like this arise. However, the laws don't help much. While I'm all in favor of the ADA, IF a company suggests the EAP to an employee, the legal ramifications are significant, on the premise that the company identified a disabling and therefore ADA situation.
Posted by MJT76 on September 1, 2002, at 11:59:14
In reply to Re: Harassment/Depression/Disability, posted by coral on September 1, 2002, at 11:28:10
I've been communicating with the President of Human Resources. She has mentioned the EAP, however I declined the offer saying I would feel more comfortable speaking with a professional unrelated to the company. I didn't know about that legal point, though. Thank you.
5 months after I complained they are attempting to apply Workers Compensation for the injuries I've sustained as a result of the harassment. I did some research on that and found that employees actually forfeit common law rights to sue the employer in exchange for a portion of income and medical expenses while on the related disability. I mentioned this to the President of Human Resources and said that I would not accept Workers Compensation and will not surrender any legal rights.
Should I involve a lawyer? It's not possible for me to return to that environment with all who has been involved. It is extremely uncomfortable. Due to my health and financial stability I am unable to secure alternate immediate income. I've read in these cases where it is necessary for an appropriate legal demand letter to resolve the matter. Any advice on this?
Posted by MJT76 on September 1, 2002, at 12:10:03
In reply to Re: Harassment, posted by mashogr8 on August 30, 2002, at 20:59:32
I have a lot of material for the company's harassment policies and procedures. I've kept all of my handbooks, guides and handouts.
Everything that I have read basically says that harassment will not be tolerated in any form and will be treated very seriously.
Not terminating the employment of or even suspending an admitted harasser certainly sounds like toleration. When you consider the fact that this person was actually promoted within a month from the complaint of harassment it sounds more like they support it.
I will look up the information for the Attorney General in my state. I live in Central Florida.
I appreciate all of this advice. It's unbelievable. I don't feel as alone hearing such encouragement and support. There is good in this world.
Posted by coral on September 2, 2002, at 11:11:50
In reply to Attorney General, posted by MJT76 on September 1, 2002, at 12:10:03
I'm not sure I'd go to the Atty. Gen. Instead, I would first contact a lawyer who is well versed in the labor issues of Florida. If you choose to seek redress by yourself, contact the Labor Department.
Believe me, I am not dismissing what you've said about your terrible experience. However, harassment is a tricky issue. Normally, for harassment to exist, the victim has to be in a protected class, i.e. Title VII Civil Rights Act. As examples, it has to be flagrant - A supervisor saying "I hate Catholics and won't promote them,", or, if you are a member of a protected class (barring a flagrant example), you have to show that other members of your class are also harassed. Sadly, being a jerk while being a boss isn't illegal.
Posted by gloryb on September 2, 2002, at 13:07:54
In reply to Attorney General, posted by MJT76 on September 1, 2002, at 12:10:03
The kind of harrassment you describe sounds like
it doesn't involve what the employment law these
days refers to as harrassment. If it were, the
employer would have taken action against the boss
to avoid litigation.In these cases, where disability is involved,
it is always a good idea to get the advice of
an attorney. Sometimes just the knowledge
that you have one can cause the company to act
in your favor. It sure never hurts!
Posted by MJT76 on September 2, 2002, at 13:26:29
In reply to Re: Attorney General » MJT76, posted by gloryb on September 2, 2002, at 13:07:54
I'm beginning to learn how the law operates. I can't help to feel discriminated by the law alone.
I started with this company in October of last year. After training in December I was assigned to her team (the manager that harassed me). Based on her perception of my sexuality or what her stereotype of my gender should be she began making degrading comments.
I am a homosexual male, however I don't advertise it. Not because I am ashamed because I am private. I never told her my sexuality, however a co-worker of mine new and in corporate America word travels fast.
In any event, she began referring to me as a woman. She commented on my clothing and how it related to the way "my people" wore their clothes. She also used her perception of my sexuality a topic of group meetings. All of which made me extremely uncomfortable and self-conscious.
The problem that I am finding is that homosexuals are not covered under any discrimination laws in Central Florida. I've read numerous times that, regardless, it is harassment.
They found that she didn't mean the comments in the way that I perceived them. She knew what she was saying and what she meant.
Posted by coral on September 2, 2002, at 18:42:59
In reply to EAP » coral, posted by MJT76 on September 1, 2002, at 11:59:14
Not suing while on workers' comp. is standard procedure for most states. The exception is when the company absolutely knew and ignored a dangerous situation existed. Obviously, you know your situation far better than I could, but you may want to reconsider taking workers' compensation. One of the things it does is actually acknowledge that you were harmed while performing your job. Also, mental difficulties on workers' comp. can go on for a very, very long time. While I'm not comparing your situation, some postal employees who were present during one of the shootings are still off on workers' comp. The down side is that while employers are NOT supposed to use workers' comp. claims as a reason not to hire a new employee, that DOES happen.
Posted by gloryb on September 3, 2002, at 9:00:00
In reply to Harassment, posted by MJT76 on September 2, 2002, at 13:26:29
If this boss made comments about your sexuality,
either real or perceived, it was out of bounds.
It's your personal business and harassing a person
about their personal life is definitely wrong.You may not fit a protected class, but there is
enough here to go to a lawyer. Interesting that
the company found she didn't mean what she said.
Did she give an altered set of quotes? Did
she try to make it sound like you were sensitive
and that she never said such things?I'd make a list of the things she said as she
said them. If you are close enough to anyone
there who might back you up, see if they will.
Don't ask anyone loyal to her! Take this to the
lawyer with information from a mental health
professional that you are suffering damage
from what she said.That she was a (probably) hetero woman saying
things about a (perceived as) homsexual man
means she was offending someone different from
herself. This is wrong anyway, and definitely
off limits for management.Unfortuately, my situation involved one middle-aged,
hetero, woman of eastern European descent harrassing
another. Mine was more social. "If you knew
what they think of you....", "They tell me about
you every day....", "I may have to remove you since
I can't ignore all the people....".Turned out there were little comments here and there
and when she really came down on me and I almost
left they said, "if we knew she was doing this
we would have never said anything." What I had
was a woman who didn't like me trying to use
the staff as an excuse. It's harder to do anything
about that, but the psychological damage is
quite real, unfortunately.Keep us informed on how it's going for you.
Posted by coral on September 3, 2002, at 10:39:46
In reply to Re: Harassment » MJT76, posted by gloryb on September 3, 2002, at 9:00:00
These are very tricky waters and can prove extremely difficult for the victim. It can be very humiliating for the victim. Another approach is job-related stress - the causes of the stress are not as "highlighted" when it's clear that the stress was caused by the job. You have to decide what it is that you wish to accomplish.
Posted by gloryb on September 3, 2002, at 10:58:47
In reply to Re: An alternative approach - Harassment, posted by coral on September 3, 2002, at 10:39:46
This is very true about the problem the victim
can endure. The problem here is that if the
harrassment took the form of attacks on sexuality
there is little one can do but tell exactly
what happened.However, I don't see why anyone should have
to reveal anything. Afterall, whether the
boss was right or not about the sexual preference
is not the issue. One could argue that one's
sexual preference was revealed or that it was
misconstrued and either way the boss is wrong.I really do see the problem for the victim. But
I think this is sort of like being raped. It doesn't
matter a woman's sexual experience or even if
she is a prostitute. The victim is not on trial.
Here it is the boss who is being questioned and
no matter what the truth is, she was wrong.The only problem I see is whatever it is she
was telling the company that let her off the
hook. She's saying something to make the victim
of this look paranoid. That can be a problem.
This is the end of the thread.
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