![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 30. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Phil on March 18, 2002, at 19:24:27
Often the test of courage is not to die, but to live. -Orestes
Posted by Zo on March 18, 2002, at 20:56:33
In reply to Courage, posted by Phil on March 18, 2002, at 19:24:27
Posted by Phil on March 18, 2002, at 21:31:59
In reply to Oh, sure, easy for you to say. (nm), posted by Zo on March 18, 2002, at 20:56:33
Been in continuous treatment for depression for 25 years. No significant relief in 5-6 years. I sleep all the time and have suicidal thoughts. I've taken these meds in various combos. Probably forgot a few. I posted something like this when pb was in it's 3-4th month. Got flamed. Dr. Bob didn't even use the word 'civil' yet. Nothing has ever fucking come easy for me, Zo.
Do your homework before making assumptions.
Every once in a while, I'll post a quote that is, in my view, relevant.
I'm almost always friendly on this board. Believe me, you don't want to bring out my bad side. It ain't pretty.
If I misinterpreted your post, I'll retract this. If I didn't, you got your reaction.1. Amitriptyline
2. Nortriptyline
3. Imipramine
4. Desipramine
5. Protriptyline
6. Nefazadone
7. Mirtazapine
8. Doxepin
9. Xanax
10. Clonazepam(Klonopin)
11. Luvox
12. Effexor
13. Serzone
14. Prozac
15. Zoloft
16. Paxil
17. Ritalin
18. Lithium
19. Synthroid
20. Provigil
21. Buspar
22. Reboxetine
23. Celexa
24. Adderall
25. Wellbutrin
Posted by trouble on March 18, 2002, at 22:05:14
In reply to Courage, posted by Phil on March 18, 2002, at 19:24:27
Hey Phil,
Oops, I didn't take the proper tone of your lament either, so I apologize for the similar light-hearded thougt I had as Zo. The gallows humor thing or the deeply despairing thing, which one do I choose? I dunno, it depends on my medication!
But I understand where you're at now. It's a rough ride, isn't it? I applaud you for sticking w/your medication trials in the face of all that failing psychfu*knpharm. It's an all too familiar story for all of us, but when it's on your own plate it can feel like you're all alone in a hostile universe. But I believe you are loved by many, and perhaps, for tonight, FEARED BY ALL!! Welcome to my world. :)take care,
trouble
Posted by trouble on March 18, 2002, at 22:09:06
In reply to Oh, sure, easy for you to say. (nm), posted by Zo on March 18, 2002, at 20:56:33
Posted by Zo on March 19, 2002, at 0:26:26
In reply to Re: Oh, sure, easy for you to say.Zo, posted by Phil on March 18, 2002, at 21:31:59
Okay, flame boy. We all got a list like that. I'm really sorry my mordant humor didn't strike you right. Put down your fangs. . .you don't wanna fuck with me, and besides, you don't need to. We all support you, that's what we're here for.
I don need no steeking retraction. It's a non-issue. I. am. not. a. guy. You wanna talk about your meds? We could share what brains as we have.
Zo
Posted by trouble on March 19, 2002, at 0:43:51
In reply to Re: Oh, sure, easy for you to say.(thx, trouble) » Phil, posted by Zo on March 19, 2002, at 0:26:26
Posted by Phil on March 19, 2002, at 7:15:57
In reply to Re: Oh, sure, easy for you to say.(thx, trouble) » Phil, posted by Zo on March 19, 2002, at 0:26:26
Anger gets me nowhere. Makes the depression worse. Let's just let this go.
Posted by Phil on March 19, 2002, at 8:50:43
In reply to Re: Oh, sure, easy for you to sayZo, posted by Phil on March 19, 2002, at 7:15:57
Zo, Been having life and med issues making me an angry guy. I've scared myself a few times.
I jumped a little too quick on your first post and
I need to be a little more tolerant and calm down.
Asked on babble for med suggestions.Carry on...peace
Phil
Posted by Willow on March 19, 2002, at 9:52:28
In reply to Courage, posted by Phil on March 18, 2002, at 19:24:27
> Often the test of courage is not to die, but to live. -Orestes
COURAGE: the quality of mind or spirit that enables a person to face difficulty, danger, pain, etc., with firmness and without fear, bravery
CHARACTER: the aggregate of features and traits that form the individual nature of some person or thing
So here's my understanding of character. There are as many different types because of the various mix of traits that can be used to form an individual. In a general sense regarding courage I think there are about three reactions. The fight, you now like when an animal is cornered it'll attack, even the little rabbit. Then the curl up in a ball, picture the ostrich. And finally, the one who tries to climb the wall, you know run away.Depending on my state of mind, I could fit any of the three. Normally I would say I'm a fighter, battle through adversity until I find a solution acceptable to me. When depressed, I just want to curl up and pretend or wish that someone else will look after everything, because I don't want to deal with anything. And then there's the anxious state, where some action is needed to make me feel comfortable. Sometimes that will point me in the direction of looking for a method to fix the problem, but there always isn't "sane" locgic in my thinking, because how do you run from yourself.
When I feel like this I wish for the courage to face the challenges of living, back lack it and just desire eternal rest.
Whispering Willow
Posted by Fi on March 19, 2002, at 10:59:21
In reply to Courage, posted by Phil on March 18, 2002, at 19:24:27
Its struck me *since* I have had psychological problems that living through them requires a load of courage. Due to the difficulty in other people understanding it, and the fear and stigma, we dont get the acknowledgement we actually deserve.
People who manage to struggle through life with a visible physical disability can get public praise for their courage, or those who face some disaster bravely.
We are heros/heroines too, altho we wont get the public recognition for it. But maybe we can at least praise ourselves for the courage we have shown.
Fi
Posted by Phil on March 19, 2002, at 13:49:57
In reply to Re: Courage, posted by Fi on March 19, 2002, at 10:59:21
Posted by Zo on March 19, 2002, at 18:48:33
In reply to Re: Zo...All Apologies, posted by Phil on March 19, 2002, at 8:50:43
know angry mood swings, oh jesus do I know them, and the dx that finally fell out was rapid (dail) cycling Bipolar II. Being bipolar/ADD is like, dramatic, interesting situations are like *glue.* When you said addictive relationship--not that I've ever had any (!)--I immediately heard BPII/ADD combo. I used to tell my boyfriend, "You are the fridge, and I am the magnet."
You think it's situational, or process addiction, or character weakness---and then you get on Lamictal (and probably only then) and the attraction is gone. You begin to understand your own mood disorder, and your attention becomes volitional. Which is very nice. Very nice.
Zo
Posted by Zo on March 19, 2002, at 18:51:05
In reply to Re: Oh, sure, easy for you to sayZo, posted by Phil on March 19, 2002, at 7:15:57
P.S. Angry/ agitated depression is not a state to be fucked with. The highest percentage of suicides. Just thought I'd aske where you're at with pdoc and meds, and make you aware, take care of yourself. Let us know if it gets too heavy.
Zo
Posted by Zo on March 19, 2002, at 18:52:45
In reply to Zo? read my post. First. (thx) (nm), posted by trouble on March 18, 2002, at 22:09:06
Posted by Phil on March 19, 2002, at 20:35:38
In reply to Re: Oh, sure, easy for you to sayZo » Phil, posted by Zo on March 19, 2002, at 18:51:05
I think I'll get through all of this. I haven't dated in years because of addictive relationships. These women and I will find each other in a crowd of 80,000, it's amazing. I've got a lot more recovery work to do. You're too deep in these things before you realize it. They are worse than ANY drug when trying to extricate yourself. Lot of pain but I am getting my shit back together and reading a lot of recovery stuff. I ruled out suicide as an option, but I can promise you, these relationships will drive you to an early grave. Extremely painful. I feel for anyone who fights this disease, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy..no way.
Posted by Phil on March 19, 2002, at 20:46:09
In reply to Re: Zo~~More on addictive relationships, posted by Phil on March 19, 2002, at 20:35:38
Interesting about Lamictal.
My shrink and I have a good relationship. She wanted to see me weekly for a while. She knew this had the potential to put me down for the count.
I've pretty much have ruled out suicide as an option but this shit walks me right to the edge.
Beware recovering addicts and Adult Children of Alcoholics. These relationships really like us.
Posted by Zo on March 19, 2002, at 23:58:27
In reply to Re: Zo~~More on addictive relationships, posted by Phil on March 19, 2002, at 20:46:09
i still say it's our chemical pool that lends itself to these diversions. some kind of surplus. . .a form of mania. i am trying to describe the place i lived for many years, that now is gone. that kind of love, which was the highest high, doesn't hold any attraction. i feel quite lost with only a real life to lead, the only other thing to do with all that emotional energy is. . .make art.
Posted by Phil on March 20, 2002, at 6:39:04
In reply to Re: Zo~~More on addictive relationships » Phil, posted by Zo on March 19, 2002, at 23:58:27
I'll buy that. My art is drums and I'm starting to journal again which really keeps me out of trouble for the most part.
Posted by trouble on March 20, 2002, at 13:32:31
In reply to Re: Zo~~More on addictive relationships, posted by Phil on March 20, 2002, at 6:39:04
Hey Phil, others,
I grew up in a home where there was usually a drumset in the middle of the living room, the boys were allowed to play the drums 24 hours a day but I couldn't touch them or the guitar b/c my mom said they were too unfeminine so i missed out on learning to play the drums and that's one of my major regrets, my realdad was a professional drummer so i got rhythym but i also have a math disability and i'm so old it may be too late to learn how to play, i call drum schools in austin every now and then to see if i can find a teacher who won't make me read music but so far no luck so my question to you dear boy, other than do you think it's unfeminine for a chick to act like Bonzo Bonham is do you think that the ability to keep a beat is innate or learned? some nights i just go to bed prayin that i'll wake up the next day knowing how to play the drums but when i put a record on and give it a shot i lose the beat mid-way through, maybe i just have to recognize that it's never going to happen for me and learn to play the tambourine instead, wah-
love,
trouble
Posted by Phil on March 20, 2002, at 14:10:18
In reply to hey, Mr. Tambourine men, yr opinions welcomed!, posted by trouble on March 20, 2002, at 13:32:31
trouble, Some drummers have incredible time, Bun Carlos of Cheap Trick for one. But I don't think all drummers are born with it. I learned to play, mostly, by playing along with albums(those are CD's to the young whippersnappers). It ended up helping a lot with my time. But if I was just learning, I'd buy a metronome and practice very simple beats with it.
I unfortunately sold my Fibes kit recently or I'd say come on over. I love to teach drumming and you ain't gotta read shit. Most drummers don't.
If you want I'll meet you at Guitar Center one day. They have some very sweet electronic drums and you listen thru headphones. It's got a module to program different things to play to. We could do that till they kicked us out. They are really fun to play.
I've played for 30 years and only for the last 10 or so have gotten my time really tight. New players try to overplay and always rush. Ya gotta kick back in da groove with the bass player.
Anyway, yes you can learn but really have to put in the time. I used to play for 6-8 hours or until my hands were bleeding, whichever came first.
Very cool to hear that your dad was a professional drummer.What do you call a drummer who has broken up with his girlfriend..............homeless.
A drummer is hacking his way thru the jungle in Africa and has a local guide who knows where to find cool drum people. For days and days the sound of drums was always in the distance. Then it stopped. The tour guide said uh-oh. The drummer said what, what???.............bass solo.
Phil
Thanks for asking, my 2 favorite subjects..drums and meds.
Posted by Phil on March 20, 2002, at 14:38:25
In reply to Re: hey, Mr. Tambourine men, yr opinions welcomed!, posted by Phil on March 20, 2002, at 14:10:18
And remember, there's a fine line between a groove and a rut.
Posted by trouble on March 20, 2002, at 19:00:38
In reply to trouble..Fine line, posted by Phil on March 20, 2002, at 14:38:25
FAVES IN THIS ORDER
X (totally unique)
Nirvana
Led Zeppelin
The Fall
Half Japanese
Velvet Underground (see #1)
just a few off the top of my head, I like two completely different styles, opposites almost, but don't know the technical description, basically one drummer sits, the other style i like the drummer usually stands, does this make sense?do you, yourself count when you play?
what are "fills" and do they come naturally after a time or do you have to learn them?
what's a metronome?
we usually had ludwigs or pearls in the house, are they good brands? how much does a kit cost?
can you tell right away if someone has what it takes to be a drummer?
thanx,
trouble
Posted by Ritch on March 21, 2002, at 1:10:40
In reply to favorite drummers, drum questions, phil, posted by trouble on March 20, 2002, at 19:00:38
> FAVES IN THIS ORDER
>
> X (totally unique)
> Nirvana
> Led Zeppelin
> The Fall
> Half Japanese
> Velvet Underground (see #1)
>
>
> just a few off the top of my head, I like two completely different styles, opposites almost, but don't know the technical description, basically one drummer sits, the other style i like the drummer usually stands, does this make sense?
>
> do you, yourself count when you play?
> what are "fills" and do they come naturally after a time or do you have to learn them?
> what's a metronome?
> we usually had ludwigs or pearls in the house, are they good brands? how much does a kit cost?
> can you tell right away if someone has what it takes to be a drummer?
>
>
> thanx,
> troubleHi trouble,
Just an instant thought-but have you seen that indie film "Troublesome Creek"? Just curious.
I can't remember very well the names of the great rock drummers, but I can think of some bands with prominent drummers I like:The "standing drummers" are on machines, the "sitting drummers" are doing "analog-athletic" drumming..(am I wrong here?)
Rush (Neil Peart-I can remember the name..)
Nirvana (yes)
Led Zeppelin (yes)
Yes :-) (Bill Bruford?)
Chemical Brothers
Beck
The Police (Stewart)
Tool (I was "told" he uses two bass drum pedals)
The ClashMitch
Posted by Phil on March 21, 2002, at 6:44:46
In reply to favorite drummers, drum questions, phil, posted by trouble on March 20, 2002, at 19:00:38
Hi Trouble, Some standing drummers use a 'cocktail' kit. Letterman's first drummer, Steve Jordan, has a set out. Remember Stray Cats?
I usually play a 6 piece kit. Bass drum, snare, 2 suspended toms, two floor toms. I also use a double bass pedal by Drum Workshop which are great.
I don't count much when I play unless the song has some tricky breaks in it. Fills fill space.
Usually you are keeping time using either hi-hat or ride cymbal, snare, bass drum. At the appropriate time in the song, you can throw in some tricky stuff. The simple fill might jusy be rolling through all your drums, hitting a crash cymbal, then back to the groove. Young players make two mistakes. They try to play too many fills(remember, they're playing for the opposite sex and trying to be cool) and they rush the tempo because they should play simply and concentrate on locking in with the bass player and stop trying to twirl their sticks.
A metronome is a timekeeping device that you can set at different beats per minute. They have fancy electronics which are more fun and, like some studio guys, or live, they sometimes play along with a click which is never offbeat.
Ludwig's, my first kit, are trying to make a comback in a very competitive market. When the Beatles came out, Ludwig made $$$$$$. They were good drums and much sought after as far as their old SuperSensitive snares and late 60's early 70's kits were good. Just about any drum maker these days makes some decent kits: Pearl, Tama, Yamaha(recording custom kit is most recorded kit there is)Fibes(Austin made...Tommy at Tommy's Drums bought the name and old Fibes tooling)
and of course DW, Drum Workshop, is and has been extremely popular and can be big bucks. There are lot's of other good drum makers; it's a crowded field for a limited market.
I've bought decent kits from pawn shops and out of the paper for around 750.00 complete. Mfg's are making lower end kits with better quality all the time but find a deal on a used kit. Those old Ludwig or Pearl's you had at home could be treasures.
I can't tell right away unless someone sat down and had perfect time or something. You sound like you have the desire. Get a kit, a woodshed, and go beat the hell out of them everyday...you'll know. There are a few basic rock beats I teach people and show them how to expand on those. Beats reading music.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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