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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Willow on September 7, 2001, at 21:12:07
In reply to Re: Bikes and booze. » gdog, posted by Greg A. on September 7, 2001, at 18:04:14
Thanks Sar! Reading your posts always makes me feel younger, a walk down memory lane. You remind me of my friend ..., who's brother was a friend of my brother's long before I knew her. Her brother is one of the guys who I had a mad crush on. (I wonder if Kazoo would be surprised to know he wasn't the first?) Anyway years later my brother spills the beans saying that it was obvious that I had a crush on his buddy. I felt myself shrink.
What does this have to do with bikes and booze you may ask? I was nineteen, newly wed, and my main form of transportation was my bike. We had gone out for lunch with friends and afterwards decided to go to a bar for a drink. My husband married me because I was a cheap drunk.
After two drinks, we were headed for our honeymoon nest and I wondered aloud if it was safe to ride impaired. Everyone assured me this was fine. Now our apartment was quite a distance from there if you were to walk, by bicycle it didn't seem as bad. (My excuse.) So off I went.
It must have been a Sunday because one of the main streets was deserted. There was a corner store. This is were my eye for the opposite sex got me in trouble. One of them walked out of the store as I was crossing through the intersection. Somehow my foot managed to miss the pedal. (Excuse number two, I must have been watching the guy, but I still don't understand how that would have affected my feet, since I don't watch my feet as I pedal a bike.) I ended up flying over the bike.
People came out of no where to help. I just wanted to disappear. I reached my arm out to my disappearing husband, yelled out his name. He looked back and started laughing. I assured everybody that I was fine and began the trek home with a warped front tire.
So many thanks again Sar for bringing up a memory that reminds me of the joys of youth.
Hawkeyed Willow
Posted by Phil on September 7, 2001, at 21:51:51
In reply to Bikes and booze., posted by Greg A. on September 7, 2001, at 13:37:56
Greg, The problem with postponing recovery is a deepening progression of the illness.
Like one of my fellow recovery friends says...The pain will wait. And it does.
I've been around 'low-bottom' alcoholics and believe me, you don't want to go there.Follow your heart.
Phil
Posted by sar on September 8, 2001, at 1:15:10
In reply to bars, cars, thrills, chills, pills and bellyaches, posted by kid_A on September 7, 2001, at 15:16:45
my most important rule is: when running drunk in the dark, be on close lookout for barbed-wire fences.
Posted by kazoo on September 8, 2001, at 1:22:22
In reply to some really sound advice, posted by sar on September 6, 2001, at 22:51:15
> on my next day off i think i'll just *walk.*
> drinkers, there is my sound advice of the day.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I have better advice than that: don't drink at all.
The number one drug problem on this planet is as close as the nearest liquor store.kazoo
Posted by sar on September 8, 2001, at 1:28:19
In reply to Bikes and booze., posted by Greg A. on September 7, 2001, at 13:37:56
greg,
i agree with whoever said that only alcoholics sit around wondering if they're alcoholics.
i can't give any advice on the subject of quitting because i've rationalized my daily drinking (usually to the point of getting fairly drunk to trashed) as, "my life has been like a horrid movie-of-the-week for the past year, i'm just cuttin loose for awhile"--but i don't think i'll ever be able to drink like a normal person.
i like being numb too, or giggly, or extravagant--"one step over the line sweet jesus, one step over the line..."
was listening to louis jordan today (great jazzbo) and he's got a song about, "what's the use in getting sober if you're only going to get drunk again?"
on the serious side, i also agree with whoever said to follow your instincts.
it's tough. today at work i was trembling and nauseous but now it's today *after* work and i'm craving wine. this is the way it always goes.
yes, your drinking sounds like a problem to me.
if you are unhappy with it and worried about it, it is a problem.
in the past year i've lost a handful of friends due to drinking, nearly my job, it causes me to disscociate and do strange things that i regret, and most recently totalled my car and was arrested for dwi.
yet i continue.
this is very addictive stuff.
sar
Posted by Phil on September 8, 2001, at 9:06:30
In reply to Re: Bikes and booze. » Greg A., posted by sar on September 8, 2001, at 1:28:19
My best friend 25 years ago was a guy named Joe Guerrero. I loved this guy like a brother. We drank together and I even taught him how to drive a motorcycle(we weren't drinking at the time).
One night Joe got drunk, I know he was going thru hard times, and went thru a barbed wire fence on someones motorcycle. He didn't live to tell me about it.
I watched my mother go from a beautiful, charming and loving parent to being committed to the State Hospital in San Antonio when I was 15. There was no Betty Ford then.
After several desperate attempts and several 'programs' to get sober, she finally did in 1975. She died in '93, 18 years sober and available to me and that little kid in me that has never really learned to trust. AA was the only thing that worked and I was so very proud of her. We celebrated her birthday and her sobriety bithdays.
If you think you have a problem with alcohol, you do. Go to an AA meeting and just listen. If called upon, just say your first name and that you would rather not speak. You will hear your story.
Rambling Phil
Posted by Willow on September 8, 2001, at 15:11:24
In reply to Re: Bikes and booze., posted by Phil on September 8, 2001, at 9:06:30
Oh Phil,
I'm so sorry for the pain you've been through and the loss of your mother. Hopefully some of these young folks will take your message to heart.
Whispering Willow
Posted by NikkiT2 on September 8, 2001, at 15:20:25
In reply to Re: bars, cars, thrills, chills, pills and bellyaches » NikkiT2, posted by kid_A on September 7, 2001, at 21:04:37
Posted by NikkiT2 on September 8, 2001, at 15:25:02
In reply to Re: Bikes and booze., posted by Willow on September 7, 2001, at 21:12:07
That amde me laugh - Im sorry!!!
In Thailand I decided to hire myself a moped (only transp;ort on island other than taxi/pickup truck!).. it only worked out at £2 for 24 hours too!! Anyay, I wheel this thing back to where I'm staying, go in for a few whiskies, (and thai whisky is a killer!) and decide to follow my husband and friends to their diving class (they had apet snake I wanted to meet!) They've gone off so I jump on, start it up, head their direction... 20 yeards later I saw a broken bridge, braked and ended up UNDERNEATH the moped!! i ciuldn;t move, but saw a friend so waved and called out to him - He waved back, and then slowly the look of realissation spread acoss his face!! So funny!!! But he called everyone out of the bar - I had about 20 people come laughing to my rescue!!
It was still fun though!!!
Nikki
Posted by Willow on September 8, 2001, at 15:30:22
In reply to Re: Bikes and booze. » Willow, posted by NikkiT2 on September 8, 2001, at 15:25:02
*but saw a friend so waved and called out to him - He waved back, and then slowly the look of realissation spread acoss his face!! So funny!!! But he called everyone out of the bar - I had about 20 people come laughing to my rescue!!
FRIENDS never seem to give the right type of hand do they? Glad you enjoyed your trip!
Willow
Posted by Marie1 on September 8, 2001, at 16:46:32
In reply to Re: Bikes and booze. » gdog, posted by Greg A. on September 7, 2001, at 18:04:14
Greg,
Good luck tonight. I think it's kind of neat knowing others are going through the horrors of a sober weekend too! :-)
I've not had one drink all summer now, except for June 28th. (A very low point when my brother died.)
It can be very boring when all the rest of the world is out there having a wonderful time (including my spouse and friends), and I'm home alone with only the computer and books to keep me company. Of course, TV's another option, but doesn't appeal to me. I know I also have the option of joining everyone, but I'd drown in self pity and and then really drown in alcohol. So I can't go there. Yet. I know this sounds pretty dismal, but you know what keeps me going? I really like the way I feel (except when I get a migraine which is a whole different thread and probably has nothing to do with sobriety).
I mean it - I feel a gazzillion (sp?) times better than I did before. And I don't mean hangovers, I mean better than the days I wasn't hung over. Plus, I sleep better, which in itself contributes to feeling better. People tell me I look better too - thinner face (not puffy), clear eyes, etc. I had no idea the effects of alcohol were so insidious. I haven't turned into Carrie Nation, though, and am looking forward to drinking again some day, but for now I'm content with looking and feeling better. Maybe that's some incentive for you?Marie
> Thanks for the offer. I'll probably take you up on it Monday. I want to at least get a few days behind me so I feel I have something to build on. But I know that the tough part will come later when I feel I have 'proven' I don't have a problem. Then I'll need to figure out how to stay quit.
> But first - tonight with no alcohol.
Posted by Phil on September 8, 2001, at 17:22:11
In reply to Re: Bikes and booze., posted by Willow on September 8, 2001, at 15:11:24
> Oh Phil,
>
> I'm so sorry for the pain you've been through and the loss of your mother. Hopefully some of these young folks will take your message to heart.
>
> Whispering WillowWillow, Thanks, I think I woke up in a not too great of a place this morning.
Sometimes these memories just come to the surface.
I run on emotion and sometimes lose my grip on the steering wheel.
I do appreciate your comment, very sweet.Phil
Posted by Krazy Kat on September 8, 2001, at 17:35:54
In reply to Re: Bikes and booze. » Greg A., posted by sar on September 8, 2001, at 1:28:19
dear james here...
geez, james, you're just kind of a jerk sometimes, you know? I'm sure you think you're cutting the B.S. or being forthright or some such, but that's not always the case. You might step back and look at how your "minimalist posts" ring out sometimes...
Just my opinion.
- K.
Posted by Willow on September 8, 2001, at 19:36:02
In reply to Re: Bikes and booze.--stjames, posted by Krazy Kat on September 8, 2001, at 17:35:54
Krazy Kat
What is it that offended you about his post? The part where he said that these are excuses alcoholics use?
Just nosey me
Whistling Willow
Posted by sar on September 9, 2001, at 1:24:19
In reply to Re: Bikes and booze., posted by Phil on September 8, 2001, at 9:06:30
dear phil,
i'm so sorry to read about your joe and your mother. i can't imagine--i would feel like screaming in the woods for days.
i recently caused a dwi-related traffic accident and it haunts me everyday--no one was hurt thank god, but jeezus, i can't believe i did that...
do you drink? at all? do you feel you can drink even moderately?
i've been to a few AA meetings but they felt like church to me. they made me feel like drinking--the dim room, the co-ordinated discussion, the free-coffee smells...i feel like i'd have to go it onmy own, but i'm not ready.
a bittersweetness to my drunk-driving accident: my house had burned down a few months before, and the few possessions i'd managed to salvage, i'd stored in my car, then never had the heart to take them out. when i totalled my car, i literally lost all of my possesions--but i've still got my life.
i haven't driven anything but a bike since, and even that seems to be precarious. i have mixed hearts. i don't know what i want.
i don't want to be a danger to society.
if i'm going to be like this, i do not belong behind the wheel, or caring for children.
i want the Seriousness of Life to dawn on me. should i go meditate to the sound of water like siddharte? what is the answer? i don't jive with AA.
i expect no answers, i just wanted to share my thoughts...like an agnostic who can't bear to attend church except for intellectual reasons, i'm an agnostic alcoholic who can't bear to attend AA except out of curiosity. listening to drinking stories makes me feel like rushing out for a microbrew.
again, Phil, i am sorry about your best friend and mother. none of my friends have died, but many of my relatives have died by their own hand. i think that's why i want to pursue a psych degree.
like touching the burning stove to learn a lesson--
hope you are well...
sar
Posted by Appolyon on September 9, 2001, at 2:56:53
In reply to Re: Bikes and booze., posted by stjames on September 7, 2001, at 14:00:02
> Here are some of my ruses to make this drinking acceptable:
> I have exercised so I deserve a reward
> I am a connoisseur of wine and beer
> I am replacing fluids
> I am functional the next day so what’s the problem
> I never drink during the day
> If you think my drinking is a problem – what about so and so.
>
> Thoughts?
sar,
If you need ruses to make your drinking acceptable, more power to you. I'll drink to that. If they work for you, wunnerful. Hopefully nobody will get killed as a result of your drunken activities in traffic, or you will be more careful in the future. At least your not going around talking people into climbing Mount Everest (one in four chance of death), or racing stock cars, boxing, or umpteen other "acceptable" sport-related vices.If your drinking bothers you, I hope you find a way to control the urge to drink and find another source of pleasure.
Me, I don't need a ruse to justify my medication. If I choose to drink I drink. If someday I choose to drink myself into the gutter, and it breaks somebody's heart, I said exactly what I meant to say with my life. If somebody doesn't like it they can do something to change the world that I responded to by drinking myself out of it, or they can try to manipulate me in an effort to alleviate the inner suffering they feel by watching me suffer. I feel strongly enough about who I am that I don't easily let people mentally batter me by telling me they know better how I should live or die.
Bicycling drunk can be dangerous. Bicyclists are most often the loosers in car/bike run-ins. Driving drunk is very dangerous - legally and mechanically. But I have bicycled intensively for many years - no other mode of transportation, and also worked a very physical job. I rode about 15 miles each way to this grueling job in very severe weather. I occassionally stopped to drink on the way home. I did not need a ruse to justify my activity beyond the fact that there were people I wanted to visit, they were at a bar and I wanted to join them in drinking. I would ride the remaining 10 miles home in the dark - no lights on the bike either, they interfere with night vision, and when drunk drivers see a bicycle light they get confused. I could have hit a skunk or debris in the road, drunk or sober, especially on a dark new moon night. But when cars come my way, I sheild my eyes with my hat brim and get out of the way. Never fell either, at least not when cycling drunk. I've had more trouble bicycling on ice than bicylcling drunk. I know a guy that died racing bicycles - he was sober, except maybe intoxicated with aggression.
>James here
>This is what every alcoholic says.Then I must not be an alcoholic, because that is not what I say. I know lots of very chronically drunken people and many of them never said that, at least not to me. Does a person must say that to be an alcoholic? Does that mean all achoholics can be presumed to say that, that we can presume somebody here knows the workings of the mind of every alcoholic who ever lived, or that we simply do not need to be accurate when an absolute statement would make a strong point? Sometimes absolute statements are absolutely wrong.
Posted by sar on September 9, 2001, at 9:56:36
In reply to Re: Bikes and booze., posted by Appolyon on September 9, 2001, at 2:56:53
this was an interesting addition to the thread and i wanted to make sure it didn't get overlooked.
i'm still working on my morning tea rather slothlike so cannot type much now but will respond later.
sar
Posted by Phil on September 9, 2001, at 10:30:21
In reply to Re: Bikes and booze. » Phil, posted by sar on September 9, 2001, at 1:24:19
sar, I was raised in a town of 2500 people and can't believe how many friends I lost at high school age. It was not fair that these really good people had to go so soon. Our town was devastated by the untimely deaths of these promising young folks.
As for my drinking, I don't. I've been on meds a long time and really didn't know I was depressed until I stopped drinking. Not unusual. I was drinking too much from age 15 thru about 31 and loved a lot of drugs. One morning I woke up and just said, I can't do this. I've drank very occasionally since then but never been drunk. I was lucky, in a sick way, to see how low alcohol can take a person. Shortly after quitting, I was in therapy with a really good counselor, I admired her more than I can say. After bouncing back and forth with my moods she introduced me to a psychiatrist in her office. Started Amitriptyline and the rest is history, I guess.We all have a story to tell and mine's not unusual.
Thanks, sar,
Phil
Posted by Krazy Kat on September 9, 2001, at 10:36:33
In reply to K. Re: stjames » Krazy Kat , posted by Willow on September 8, 2001, at 19:36:02
> That doesn't go together very well.
I was in a horrible mood last night and should apologize to James.
It just seems like his posts are meant to be jarring with no real compassion.
I usually refrain from posting when I'm feeling ornery (SP?).
- K.
Posted by Krazy Kat on September 9, 2001, at 10:42:18
In reply to Re: Bikes and booze. » Phil, posted by sar on September 9, 2001, at 1:24:19
>I know Exactly what you mean in this post...
- K.
======
dear phil,
>
> i'm so sorry to read about your joe and your mother. i can't imagine--i would feel like screaming in the woods for days.
>
> i recently caused a dwi-related traffic accident and it haunts me everyday--no one was hurt thank god, but jeezus, i can't believe i did that...
>
> do you drink? at all? do you feel you can drink even moderately?
>
> i've been to a few AA meetings but they felt like church to me. they made me feel like drinking--the dim room, the co-ordinated discussion, the free-coffee smells...i feel like i'd have to go it onmy own, but i'm not ready.
>
> a bittersweetness to my drunk-driving accident: my house had burned down a few months before, and the few possessions i'd managed to salvage, i'd stored in my car, then never had the heart to take them out. when i totalled my car, i literally lost all of my possesions--but i've still got my life.
>
> i haven't driven anything but a bike since, and even that seems to be precarious. i have mixed hearts. i don't know what i want.
>
> i don't want to be a danger to society.
>
> if i'm going to be like this, i do not belong behind the wheel, or caring for children.
>
> i want the Seriousness of Life to dawn on me. should i go meditate to the sound of water like siddharte? what is the answer? i don't jive with AA.
>
> i expect no answers, i just wanted to share my thoughts...like an agnostic who can't bear to attend church except for intellectual reasons, i'm an agnostic alcoholic who can't bear to attend AA except out of curiosity. listening to drinking stories makes me feel like rushing out for a microbrew.
>
> again, Phil, i am sorry about your best friend and mother. none of my friends have died, but many of my relatives have died by their own hand. i think that's why i want to pursue a psych degree.
>
> like touching the burning stove to learn a lesson--
>
> hope you are well...
>
> sar
Posted by stjames on September 9, 2001, at 14:07:47
In reply to Re: Bikes and booze., posted by Greg A. on September 7, 2001, at 16:34:49
> Thanks James. Your subtle, intuitive response to my post has given me insight into the true nature of my drinking. Could you try in the future though, to just come out and say what you are thinking.
James here...
Me, subtle ? Never. I have no problem getting right down to it. James will always tell you the bottom line (as I see it). Mind you, I did not say you are an alcoholic, I have no way of really knowing that. A "drinking problem", yes. Once drinking creates consequences it is a problem.
If it helps, some of my best friends are alcoholics. Recovering ones, of course.
James
Posted by kid_A on September 9, 2001, at 18:39:33
In reply to Re: Bikes and booze., posted by stjames on September 9, 2001, at 14:07:47
> A "drinking problem", yes. Once drinking creates consequences it is a problem.
>Most everything has consequences, when treachery is involved, the truth has consequences, all of our actions have consequences... Forgetting to turn off the iron has consequences, but thats a different story alltogether...
Maybe drinking becomes a 'problem' when it becomes the only means that you can face the sunrise and get out of bed in the morning.
But I'm no one to talk, ive drank a lot in my life and had many many undesirable consequences for it... I dont necisarily consider myself an alcoholic, perhaps just an irresponsible drinker...
Perhaps the only answer to the question lies inside, if alcohol is taking more from your life than it gives, and that is for each to decide, perhaps that is the answer.
KID A
"we've got heads on sticks"
"and we've got ventriloquists"
Posted by Greg A. on September 10, 2001, at 11:37:12
In reply to Re: Bikes and booze., posted by stjames on September 9, 2001, at 14:07:47
Bikes and No Booze
Don’t fret – I did not take offense at Jame’s statement of ‘That’s what all alcoholics say.’ Okay I did at first cause the truth hurts at times, even small doses of it. I have long known that I do not drink socially. At times I have felt that it helped me to relieve anxiety with that welcome numbness, or earlier to make me less shy in social situations. The past five years, or perhaps it’s more, I have wanted to drink on my own. I don’t want to be around other people. I have questioned, almost daily, whether I had a problem. But I have avoided the answer. It just cannot be good for a depressed person to drink on a daily basis, even in small quantities. If I had a glass of wine at dinner at that was it, I would say that’s okay. But I never do. I may postpone drinking until later in the evening, but I always shoot for numbness and a glass of wine does not do it. The only thing I have done over the years is to limit myself to a quantity that won’t totally impair me for the next day. But it does affect me.
So how did I do on the weekend? Three whole days of NO alcohol. It’s a start. I refuse to say whether I feel better or not right now. I’m just going to get through tonight alcohol free and see how tomorrow is. Spoken like a true alcoholic.
By the way James; I shall carry your one liner with me for a very long time. Every time I start to justify what I do with alcohol, up will pop up a neon sign. THAT’S WHAT EVERY ALCOHOLIC SAYS. Oh – and James – I am six foot two and 245 pounds and built like a linebacker. That’s just my way of saying thanks.Greg
Posted by akc on September 10, 2001, at 13:39:33
In reply to Re: Bikes and NO booze. » stjames, posted by Greg A. on September 10, 2001, at 11:37:12
Greg,
Whatever you do, as long as you are doing it for yourself, I think you are making a great choice. I haven't been sober that long myself -- just 3 1/2 months. It is not easy -- I hope you can find some folks that you can share the experience with -- it has helped me on this journey -- I think it helps anytime we don't have to do something all by ourself.
akc
Posted by gdog on September 10, 2001, at 19:04:24
In reply to Re: Bikes and NO booze. » Greg A., posted by akc on September 10, 2001, at 13:39:33
akc - congratulations on staying sober for 3.5 months. it can get easier, believe me! i have found many, many more rewards in sobriety than i did in drinking, irrespective of the fact that i did have some great times drinking. i've had times of a different caliber sober. good luck.
gd.> Greg,
>
> Whatever you do, as long as you are doing it for yourself, I think you are making a great choice. I haven't been sober that long myself -- just 3 1/2 months. It is not easy -- I hope you can find some folks that you can share the experience with -- it has helped me on this journey -- I think it helps anytime we don't have to do something all by ourself.
>
> akc
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