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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Partlycloudy on September 10, 2008, at 11:17:38
In today's session we covered a lot of ground. I've been going every week lately due to the extra pressures at home. I've also been seeing an acupuncture and chiropractor practioner for my chronic back pain, which has become pretty severe.
Talking in session, it became as clear as day, when we would touch on an issue that was a core truth, and something that was being brought into focus, that my back pain would correspondingly lessen. When we would speak of things that I currently find distressing, my back would spasm. OK, classic psychosomatic back pain (which you don't see many doctors talk about these days). My practioner has talked to me about my job currently being better stress management. My therapist says that I've been stuffing my feelings about a lot of issues at home (my step daughter, my sick father in law, and how my husband is or isn't dealing with these problems) rather than airing them out - and this rings true to me, because when we talked about it, my back wouldn't hurt as much.
I have a similar routine with my headaches these days. The pain is very physical and very real - but I can feel an immediate correspondence between talking about stressful issues that are still causing me to feel distressed, and me feeling pain.
She wants me to try to journal my way through some of this stuff - to get the venom and poison, as it were, out of my head and so out of my body.
At the same time, I'm so uncomfortable that I've isolated myself pretty severely. Not leaving the house at all if I can avoid it, running out of groceries, not doing the things for myself like I say I'm going to (like yoga) and then feeling a whopping load of guilt on top of feeling full of pain.
I don't see this lovely little cycle I've created being broken. I have an appointment with my pdoc this afternoon, and I guess I will mention the chronic pain to him - I know that while I was on Cymbalta, I had no problems with pain at all, and coincidentally, it's prescribed for people with fibromyalgia. And when I withdrew from that medication, body aches were my main symptom.
This is all tied together somehow. I don't know what the resolution is. I wish I felt that writing about my complaints was going to make me feel better - but this keeps coming up (like many, many times in a day! How much can I write??!!).
I'm distressed.
Posted by lucie lu on September 10, 2008, at 12:18:32
In reply to Dawning realization, posted by Partlycloudy on September 10, 2008, at 11:17:38
Hi PC,
Have you been evaluated for fibromyalgia? The symptoms you describe are very common with FM: muscle spasms, chronic pain (often neck, back), fatigue and lack of energy, depression, headaches. I forgot - did you mention sleep difficulties? Bad memory, foggy brain (referred to as 'fibro fog' - really!) With FM it is very common, given the negative synergy of the symptoms, to spiral down into mental/physical/emotional places that can be really hard to get out of. It can be difficult wthout the right diagnosis and clinical help.
I was diagnosed with FM about 10 years ago. I previously went to a patchwork of people who treated one symptom or the other without seeing the bigger picture. FM can be hard to diagnose but there are characteristics that a trained clinician will notice as expressing a high probability of FM. Depression is almost always a part of the equation but whether that's a cause or the effect of feeling so impaired is an open question. A good FM treatment often includes something to help with getting good, restful sleep, suitable pain meds (maybe A/Ds like amitriptyline; gabapentin (neurontin); cymbalta; or the newer lyrica). Physical therapy and massage often helps too, and stress reduction is really good if you can manage it. Supportive psychotherapy can be very helpful, especially for the depression, but FM, does NOT originate in your head nor will T-work alone get rid of it. It is a physical chronic pain syndrome that has many components to it, including "exercise intolerance" - a particularly inconvenient symptom because it means you hurt even more than usual after exerise. Can be very self-defeating.
The good news (after all that) is that at least FM is non-degenerative; unlike some other conditions like rheumatoid arthritis or even regular osteoarthritis, no actual physical damage is being done to your muscles, joints etc. The current view is that it is neurological, mostly involving your brain's sleep center and pain receptors.Whenever I get into one of those FM "holes" - every couple of years, usually triggered by a pshyiological stress like surgery- I typically need a bit of help to get out, usually with some meds from my PCP and with the help of a terrific physical therapist who's taught me a lot about my body and how to respond to the bouts. She helps me slowly build up my strength, which helps to overcome the FM. I know by now that by the time I am able to do aerobic exercise easily and comfortably, the FM symptoms abate, I sleep and feel better, etc. For me, exercise is key to keeping it at bay; different people may have others ways that work best for them. It can just take some time to get there. Fortunately, the need to avoid a FM flare does help me keep fit.
And in my mid-fifties, that is a good thing :)Sorry to write a book - just sounded like you might be experiencing FM symptoms. And if so, there are known approaches to taking care of them and you are not alone in what you're experiencing.
In any event, hope you're feeling better soon.
Best,
Lucie
Posted by Partlycloudy on September 10, 2008, at 12:24:44
In reply to fibromyalgia?, posted by lucie lu on September 10, 2008, at 12:18:32
I wish - but no, I don't think I fit the Fibromyalgia dx. My sleep is easy. I fall and stay asleep for 8 or 9 hours every night. I've suffered from migraine headaches since I was an infant - they worsened with puberty and perimenopause, as promised. The back pain has been since my step daughter moved in with us this past spring - she recently moved out.
Unfortunately, I think my discomfort is All In My Head (or at least that's where it's originating).pc
Posted by Phillipa on September 10, 2008, at 12:36:30
In reply to Re: fibromyalgia? » lucie lu, posted by Partlycloudy on September 10, 2008, at 12:24:44
PC I kind of agree and disagree as same thing happened to me when went off cymbalta 60mg I had back pain I didn't know I had. Now my back pain is worse and wearing an elastic brace to help. And other aches and pains lately also and headaches which had disappeared by quite a while. Fibo no as was once diagnosed with it but you must have all those I think 11 pressure points which means touching your body hurts. Me I have deep knots in my back which started with the surgery. And now with weather changes and fighting with sig others constantly I'm getting more. I don't know what the answer is. Let me know what your pdoc thinks. As I'm totally preplexed. Thanks Phillipa
Posted by Dinah on September 10, 2008, at 13:03:46
In reply to Re: fibromyalgia? » lucie lu, posted by Partlycloudy on September 10, 2008, at 12:24:44
Originating in your head doesn't mean it isn't real, or that it's something you can think yourself out of. At least I don't think so.
The neurochemical stuff may be triggered by stress. But once it's triggered it has a very real effect.
Still, it's an excellent argument for self care.
I find that when I'm having extra stress in my life there are some things I can do to reduce the chances of a migraine. I wear my sunglasses way more often, because light is a trigger for me. If I'm stressed, it's important to control as many other triggers as I can.
And even then it doesn't work consistently. When I'm in a migraine loop I can easily get at least one every day for two or three weeks. It almost feels like one long headache interrupted by respites from meds.
Back pain probably gets worse with age. Are you doing your yoga and stretching? I had a lot of back pain during the evacuation and bugged my husband constantly for massages. Tight muscles were the culprit for me. No access to hot baths, so massages were all I had.
I'm thinking of doing some stretching. I never got the relief from exercise that some people did, not even when I was young. But stretching was an exception to that. I loved that limp spaghetti feeling after a workout. If I can find a space to do it, I think I'll find an age appropriate tape. Unfortunately, space is at a premium in our house.
Posted by Phillipa on September 10, 2008, at 13:53:24
In reply to Re: fibromyalgia?, posted by Dinah on September 10, 2008, at 13:03:46
Dinah unfortunately as we age we all get some arthritis and it occurrs at least it did for me around menopause. Now its gotten worse. I used to do Yoga stretches all the time now my discs have fused on their own so I can't and boy I was limber. Not anymore. Guess it's just something to live with. Love Phillipa
Posted by rskontos on September 10, 2008, at 15:50:08
In reply to Re: fibromyalgia?, posted by Dinah on September 10, 2008, at 13:03:46
Guys, I am trying a new exercise program called T-Tapp and it is rehabilitative, good for all the conditions each of you named. Plus if you go to her website you can try most of her programs for free before you buy. It is good for back pain, Theresa the founder has fused vertebras 5,6 and 7 that happened when she was a teenager. She developed this program for herself and eventually took it public. I have been doing this program for about 1 1/2 weeks and I am loving it. I feel it is giving me energy. I have adrenal fatigue, thyroid condition, hormones are off , and a few more conditions. All which need exercise to help but most types of exercise I needed a nap when I was done. Not this one. In fact I have been feeling like crap for a long time. I have some meds for some of the conditions but knew I needed to exercise to help my body get better too.
go to www.t-tapp.com if you want to investigate and/or try the free workouts. Youtube also has the workouts.
rsk
Posted by Partlycloudy on September 10, 2008, at 16:12:47
In reply to Dawning realization, posted by Partlycloudy on September 10, 2008, at 11:17:38
He said the back pain and the headaches are an expression of my depression - and that it's good that I comprehend (if so exquisitely) the mind-body connection. He encouraged me to continue with the weekly therapy and acupuncture treatments to get to the source of the stress, rather than just treat the pain. I told him I didn't really want to just not feel the pain any more (which the Cymbalta was really short-circuiting for me) - it was more important that I work this all out.
Whew - therapy in the morning, and pdoc in the afternoon. I'm a puddle - oh, and I have a headache, thanks to far-off Hurricane Ike, nowhere near where I am, yet the effects are easily seen and definitely felt.
I feel, though, that having my pdoc's endorsement of the treatment path was pretty important, and shows that he has faith in me and my desire for eventual resolution. I don't feel quite as bleak as I did earlier.
Thanks everyone for your thoughtful comments. RSK, I'll take a look at that workout, though I'm not even up to doing yoga stretches at the moment.
Posted by Phillipa on September 10, 2008, at 19:52:56
In reply to Re: workout that might help if interested, posted by rskontos on September 10, 2008, at 15:50:08
Rsk you and I share a lot of the same things. Would love to hear more about the thyroid and adrenal fatigue and what you're doing for that. Babblemail is open. Thanks Phillipa. And PC glad you're pdoc was a great help to you today. And think I'll look up that program.
Posted by lemonaide on September 11, 2008, at 10:41:47
In reply to Dawning realization, posted by Partlycloudy on September 10, 2008, at 11:17:38
Stress is horrible on our bodies, I have learned this too from experience. I don't think your symptoms are psychosomatic though. Stress tightens up your muscles, and causes backaches and headaches. You are stressed, when you talk about these things, it causes stress, your body responds. You aren't making up the backaches or headaches.
So get back into yoga, and stuff that calms you, I am sure it will help. (do as I say, not as I do, mind you, lol) Hope you can feel better soon
Posted by antigua3 on September 11, 2008, at 11:00:56
In reply to Dawning realization, posted by Partlycloudy on September 10, 2008, at 11:17:38
I just wanted to say that I'm sorry you're having such a hard time. Stress is so hard to deal with, and finding healthy ways to deal with it sound good in principal, but so hard to actually do.
I admire you for attacking it head on and finding the help you need.
I'm always a nervous wreck. I've never known a time when I haven't felt all balled up in that exhaustive state of hypervigilance. Medication helps somewhat, but at times it just adds to the anxiety.Take good care of yourself,
antigua
Posted by Racer on September 11, 2008, at 16:11:43
In reply to What the pdoc said, posted by Partlycloudy on September 10, 2008, at 16:12:47
But I wanted you to know that I wish you felt better, and am very admiring of your attitude about doing the hard stuff. You're pretty impressive -- if rather damp ;-)
All my best to you, ever.
Posted by lucie lu on September 11, 2008, at 18:07:50
In reply to What the pdoc said, posted by Partlycloudy on September 10, 2008, at 16:12:47
PC, I don't know how old you are but just thought I'd tell you that the migraines I'd suffered from for years disappeared with menopause! Yay!LOL - Lucie
Posted by Partlycloudy on September 11, 2008, at 19:59:42
In reply to something to look forward to... » Partlycloudy, posted by lucie lu on September 11, 2008, at 18:07:50
>
> PC, I don't know how old you are but just thought I'd tell you that the migraines I'd suffered from for years disappeared with menopause! Yay!
>
> LOL - LucieLight at the end of this particular tunnel, then! My mom still gets them, but she also is still taking hormones (and shouldn't be).
thanks
pc
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