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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Looney Tunes on September 8, 2008, at 21:12:05
Do you think it is an important part of therapy to be able to depend on your T?
And what does that mean to you?
I am really battling this issue...
Posted by Dinah on September 8, 2008, at 22:35:58
In reply to How do you 'depend' on your T? ????, posted by Looney Tunes on September 8, 2008, at 21:12:05
How would you like to depend on your therapist?
My thought is that it's perfectly reasonable to struggle with this concept. Therapists are different, and the answer is probably different for each therapy dyad.
I would answer that I depend on my therapist appropriate to his ability to be dependable. It took a while to figure out what that was, to figure out who he was and his strengths and weaknesses. I still adjust my expectations from time to time, sometimes ranting and railing as I do so.
And also of course there are the boundaries of therapy. I can't reasonably depend on my therapist to do anything concrete outside that room.
Posted by JayMac on September 9, 2008, at 16:11:21
In reply to How do you 'depend' on your T? ????, posted by Looney Tunes on September 8, 2008, at 21:12:05
> Do you think it is an important part of therapy to be able to depend on your T?
>
> And what does that mean to you?
>
> I am really battling this issue...Looney,
I think it's ok to depend on your T. It's ok to need your T. It's ok to want to be close to your T. These are all natural and *good* things to want. It helps create a theraputic alliance.
I have also struggled with the dependency aspect with my T. I told her recently that I hate that I depend on her so much. For me though, it has helped me to trust her and the whole *process* of therapy. Gradually, over many months and/or years, you will become less and less dependent on her and more towards inter-dependence.We, as human beings, all need other people. The extent to which we depend on others does vary from person to person. Regardless, we NEED human connection. It's not good to depend too much OR too little. It can creat boundary issues. Those are some of my thoughts based off of experience and my own research.
I hope that makes sense. I, also, have issues with dependency and connection. Feel free to babble mail me if you'd like =)Take good care,
Jay
Posted by lucie lu on September 9, 2008, at 17:45:20
In reply to Re: How do you 'depend' on your T? ????, posted by JayMac on September 9, 2008, at 16:11:21
Posted by Dinah on September 9, 2008, at 18:16:05
In reply to Re: How do you 'depend' on your T? ????, posted by JayMac on September 9, 2008, at 16:11:21
Ah yes, from that aspect, it's perfectly ok to depend on your therapist. My therapist has said pretty much the same thing.
My issue has always been that my therapist is not terribly dependable in some ways. It hurts less if I only depend on him in those ways he can reliably be depended upon.
Posted by Racer on September 11, 2008, at 8:57:08
In reply to Re: How do you 'depend' on your T? ????, posted by Dinah on September 9, 2008, at 18:16:05
>
> My issue has always been that my therapist is not terribly dependable in some ways. It hurts less if I only depend on him in those ways he can reliably be depended upon.I had a long "discussion" -- id est: disagreement -- with a former T (remember Shining Bright?) about exactly that. I said that I did not think that unconditional trust in anyone was respectful to that individual. Admittedly, at the time I had damn near NO trust for ANYone at ALL -- just after the whole nightmare agency-from-hades experience -- so she may have been overstating her case for good and just reasons, but I was adamant: I know that I can't trust my mother for emotional support, so unconditional trust means that I'm asking her for something she's not capable of, and that is not respectful of her. I know that my current T has certain qualities which keep me from depending on her in certain areas -- recognizing that I can't rely on her in those areas, that I can't trust her in those areas, and that there are other areas where I can trust her absolutely, seems like the most respectful way to relate to her. Walking in every week, trusting that she'll remember the words I used to describe something -- no matter how important the exact words are to me -- would allow her to disappoint my expectations every single week. Not good for therapy, and a good pattern for making my life miserable both in and out of therapy.
So, I don't trust her to recognize the importance of the words I use, but I do trust her to try to understand what I'm saying, so if I don't know she's gotten the distinction from the words, I'll ask, "what did you hear? OK, that's not what I said -- I used these words, because..." And I trust that she will let me try to get us to the same meaning. (And y'all know I'm not always good at that, sometimes it takes me a LOT of words to say something which someone else could say very simply.) And I trust her to care about me, to care about and work to nurture our relationship, and I trust her to have off days -- and to hear me tell her when I think she's off the mark on something.
It took a very, very long time, though, to get to this. I'd been seeing her about three years before I had something come up that I recognized as transference -- major breakthrough. Until then, we'd talked about it, and I'd rejected it in a big way. We'd talked about the fact that I really did have that wall up against it -- sometimes I felt bad for her, because she'd offer something like, "If you need to hear this in my voice in your head..." and I'd say, "No. I won't hear it in your voice. If I hear it at all, it'll be my own voice. I never hear your voice between sessions, unless you leave me a voice mail..." You know, nolo me tangere. And when that tiny ch*nk appeared in the wall, I was so overwhelmingly freaked out you can't imagine! Took weeks to stop twitching about it...
Depending on my T is weird -- I still have very little comfort in it. I think it has helped therapy, though -- and it hasn't made me any less critical of her, which might have been part of my fear. I see a lot more areas where my boundary issues are at play because of it, though, which is good.
Oh, and I mean "critical" in the neutral sense -- like a film critic can love a movie, as well as panning it. Just looking critically, using critical thinking skills, you know? Not the negative sense.
Posted by antigua3 on September 11, 2008, at 11:08:18
In reply to How do you 'depend' on your T? ????, posted by Looney Tunes on September 8, 2008, at 21:12:05
I think I kind of follow Racer's approach. I am "appropriately" dependent most of the time, and give my T a wide berth on my being dependent when she can't fill the need. It was a struggle because I wanted to be fully dependent on her, but the inevitable events of life, and her own personality and defects (I say that kindly) were hard lessons to learn.
I don't like to depend on anyone, but that's true of so many of us. But I can depend on my T for what I know she can give me, and no longer wish for what I can't have. Actually, it's a big issue in my therapy with her because my maternal transference keeps me from fully delving into my mother issues. I want to protect my T just like I protected my mother, but the truth is that I need to get beyond that and deal w/so many other things.
So, yes, I believe being dependent on a T is important, and necessary, because if you face it and deal w/it, you'll learn so much about yourself. Now if I could just follow my own advice...
antigua
Posted by Dinah on September 11, 2008, at 13:05:57
In reply to Re: How do you 'depend' on your T? ????, posted by antigua3 on September 11, 2008, at 11:08:18
Exactly. That's what I meant. It *is* respectful and even loving to understand the limitations of another person. I said something about my husband in another thread that may have sounded critical, but in my mind it's not at all critical.
It's like what we want from our therapists and our spouses and parents, etc. It's not that we want them to trust us in every way, because we'd be bound to let them down. We want them to know who we are and to find us adequate (or more than adequate - I can't think of the word.)
When I say my therapist isn't trustworthy I mean that in some ways it would be foolish of me to trust him. He's said many times that he'll be here for me as long as I want him to be. Yet I know he's looked into leaving town. I can trust him to be a steady presence in my life, but I can also trust him to fall apart under his personal stress. I can trust that he will occasionally get angry with me, and I can also trust that he will fight to relationship with me, no matter how angry he might be. I can trust that he'll feel sleepy from time to time in session. I can trust that he will take criticism well. I can trust that he'll forget important things I tell him. I can trust that he'll always see *me*.
I don't know. Maybe that means trusting more globally and being hurt over and over and learning where it's safe to trust. And that hurts, and my tendency is to try to avoid pain.
But in the end, I end up with an acceptance of a complex relationship with a complex person who will help me and care for me and hurt me and anger me and let me down and help keep me above water when I'm floundering. I think that carries over into other relationships. Maybe even including my relationship with myself.
Posted by antigua3 on September 13, 2008, at 9:25:26
In reply to Antigua and Racer » antigua3, posted by Dinah on September 11, 2008, at 13:05:57
"It's like what we want from our therapists and our spouses and parents, etc. It's not that we want them to trust us in every way, because we'd be bound to let them down."
It's funny, but I'd say that "they were bound to let us down." I don't usually worry about letting them down, I can't even go there because of how confusing that would be to me.
I'm currently in a sitution with my pdoc that this is coming into play and I'm not sure how I'm going to handle it. He is pushing me in one direction, professionally, that I'm not sure I want to follow. Am I strong enough to do what I think is right or will I buckle?
Interesting question. Thanks Loony Tunes for bringing all this up.
antigua
Posted by Dinah on September 13, 2008, at 9:34:16
In reply to Letting our therapists down » Dinah, posted by antigua3 on September 13, 2008, at 9:25:26
I didn't mean we should worry about letting our therapists down.
I just meant that we're bound to disappoint anyone who trusts us too globally. Just as we're bound to be disappointed if we trust our therapist too globally. It's not a question of fault. Just a mismatch.
I don't think I'm explaining myself well. And maybe it's something that can only come with experience with that person. I certainly didn't know earlier in my therapy how far to trust my therapist.
This is the end of the thread.
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