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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by TherapyGirl on May 3, 2007, at 20:04:04
So I'm sitting in my T's office tonight and about 10 minutes into the session, there is a knock on the door. That has never happened before and it completely threw me. I looked at my T and said, "Someone obviously didn't get the memo." She went to the door and it was her 7 p.m. appointment, asking if her time was at 7 because she "saw the other lady leave." T confirmed that it was 7 and came back in and told me she would have a conversation with that client later.
And it was obvious to me from the speech pattern that this client has a developmental disability, so I was trying hard to let it go. I work, both full-time and part-time, with people with disabilities. But it was incredibly distracting and it was hard for me to get past it because I was so freaked out.
Then when I left, she was STANDING RIGHT OUTSIDE THE DOOR. Which means that she could hear most, if not all, of what I said for the entire session. She nearly knocked me down trying to get into the office (which is another no-no). Again, I'm trying to make allowances here, but I am seriously freaked out by this. And usually I am the last appointment of the day. I can only hope this was some weird scheduling thing and it won't be like this every week. But if it happens again, I have to say something, right?
Posted by Honore on May 3, 2007, at 20:21:50
In reply to Weird Session, posted by TherapyGirl on May 3, 2007, at 20:04:04
In fact, you might want to say something about it anyway, in case she does it in other situations--as well as to try to prevent its happening again to you, or your worrying about it.
Did your T see that she seemed to be listening to the session, or trying to, through the door?
Perhaps especially if the person has a developmental problem, it's important for her to understand appropriate behavior. What she did really is a violation of your experience with your T. Also, it suggests she has some issues that she was acting out-- which, if it were me, would make me very uncomfortable any time I was in the office before her appointment.
You do have the right to protect yourself and to take actions to restore the boundary that was broken, rather than to ignore it. You don't have to sacrifice your own legitimate needs because the person had a disability-- it might be important to be respectful, but not to make that sacrifice.
Honore
Posted by TherapyGirl on May 3, 2007, at 20:25:37
In reply to Right!, posted by Honore on May 3, 2007, at 20:21:50
You're right, I know you're right. I couldn't talk to my T about her standing outside the door because I had to move out of the way quickly to avoid being mowed down. But T was standing in the doorway as I left, so I assume she knows. But I'll bring it up next week just in case she missed it.
Posted by Daisym on May 3, 2007, at 20:54:37
In reply to Weird Session, posted by TherapyGirl on May 3, 2007, at 20:04:04
I think you might even want to leave a phone message about this one. In another week, it might drift away some. And I'm not sure you want to give up your session to processing this, if it can be cleared up easily. It puts your therapist in a difficult situation too, because she can't really tell you what is up with this other person or that person's schedule, she can only comment on you and your schedule.
I guess I'm projecting a little here. I wouldn't want to sit with the worry and these feelings all week. I want to feel safe in my therapist's office and I've had a couple of times where there were intrusions. They are hard to get past.
Ug. Sorry. What a terrible feeling that must have been. At least she knocked?
Posted by TherapyGirl on May 3, 2007, at 21:04:19
In reply to Re: Weird Session » TherapyGirl, posted by Daisym on May 3, 2007, at 20:54:37
When you're right, you're right.
I just called and left her a voice mail. I only dealt with the disability circumspectly. I just told her how uncomfortable I was with her next client standing outside the door and that I thought there was a good chance that she had been standing out there since she knocked on the door (which would have been for 50 minutes of my session). I reminded her that every word said in that office could be heard by someone outside the door and that I knew this because if I go in and walk through to go to the bathroom before my session, I can hear them talking. So I told her that I needed her to call and leave me a message letting me know that she had explained the rules to this client (or was planning to) and that I needed her to assure me that this was never going to happen again. I told her that I needed to be sure because otherwise I would be constantly worried about it.
So I'll let you know what she says in response.
Thanks for the advice and the support.
Posted by gazo on May 3, 2007, at 22:18:15
In reply to Re: Weird Session)) Honore and » Daisym, posted by TherapyGirl on May 3, 2007, at 21:04:19
Good for you! i think that was a very appropriate way to handle it. Respectful of all involved.
Posted by muffled on May 3, 2007, at 23:45:58
In reply to Re: Weird Session)) Honore and » TherapyGirl, posted by gazo on May 3, 2007, at 22:18:15
Oh man TG that would have totally weirded me RIGHT out.
Mt T's office is in a church. So in the hall outside the door she puts this thing, can't remember what its called, but it makes a noise, just a loudish whirring noise, that masks the sound of people talking in her office, cuz the next clients wait right outside in the hall 3' from the door. There is even a volume control I think. Mebbe your T needs to make the investment...
Anyhow, you sure handled it well. thanks for posting that.
Glad your job is going OK.
((TG))
Muffled
Posted by TherapyGirl on May 4, 2007, at 5:23:32
In reply to Re: Weird Session)) Honore and » TherapyGirl, posted by gazo on May 3, 2007, at 22:18:15
Thanks, Gazo.
Posted by TherapyGirl on May 4, 2007, at 5:25:30
In reply to Re: Weird Session, posted by muffled on May 3, 2007, at 23:45:58
Yeah, Muffly, my T is in a church, too. I like your T's machine and will be suggesting my T get one like it. There was something similar they used in the office she used to be in (NOT a church and not set up so people would be standing outside the doors).
She knows how freaked out I am already by her office being in a church (not generally a safe place for me), so I'm hoping she'll be on top of this situation.
Posted by Dinah on May 4, 2007, at 9:32:28
In reply to Re: Weird Session)) Honore and » Daisym, posted by TherapyGirl on May 3, 2007, at 21:04:19
Good for you.
Privacy is clearly an issue at my therapist's office as well, and he uses the sound screen. But I still talk so softly that even he has trouble hearing me. I don't recommend that as a solution, because it annoys him, but I really wish therapists would be more careful.
Posted by peddidle on May 4, 2007, at 11:52:06
In reply to Weird Session, posted by TherapyGirl on May 3, 2007, at 20:04:04
It sounds like you have this pretty much figured out already, but I just thought I'd give you my support. I think the others were right about calling your T-- I understand your desire to be respectful towards this person who has an obvious disability, but that doesn't trump the rights you are entitled to as a client.
Sometimes, my T tells me things at the beginning of the session that kind of throw me. On the one hand, I love that she is so real, and not afraid to tell me about her life, but on the other hand, I almost wish she didn't tell me certain things, because then I fixate on them for the rest of the session. Last week, my T told me that we had to end early because her son's school had just called and said that he bumped his head. At first, I was concerned about him, but then she told me he was fine and just had a little bump, I'm only 22, so obviously I don't fully understand the whole mother/child relationship, but she has very young kids, so I'm guessing it was more about him being scared and wanting his mother, than it was about him actually being hurt. I know my T is very good about putting everything out of her mind and focusing on her clients, but I still couldn't help but think her mind was somewhere else during the session. On top of that, I also felt bad that I was keeping her there when she should have been with her son.
Anyway, my point with that whole meaningless story is that I know how much something small like that can throw me, so I can only imagine how upsetting your experience was.
If it makes you feel better, you could try thinking about it this way: depending on what this person's disability is, respect for privacy, manners, etc. may be important issues for your T to address with her.
That machine that drowns out voices sounds like a good idea, too. ;)
Let us know what your T says.
Posted by TherapyGirl on May 4, 2007, at 13:31:25
In reply to Re: Weird Session, posted by peddidle on May 4, 2007, at 11:52:06
Two actually. During the first one, she was distracted (which bugs me only because of the distractions from last night). She did say she had talked to the other person and she didn't think it would happen again. She also said it was "somewhat of a fluke." Whatever. She didn't apologize for totally freaking me out. I don't know why, but I'm more annoyed after the message than before. Maybe because she said they discourage people from being out in the hallway because of safety issues and then she sort of added the privacy thing as an afterthought. Frankly, in my book, the privacy thing is a priority, not an afterthought.
Then she called back and left a second message and said she just wanted me to know that the client had waited for most of the time in the library (her office is in a church) and had just come down on the hour. Well, first of all, the rule is to come down at 10 after the hour. And second of all, it was not yet 7 by my watch.
I don't know -- I'm just not feeling like she's getting how invasive this felt to me. So I guess we're still going to talk about this during my next session. Sigh...
Posted by muffled on May 4, 2007, at 13:46:51
In reply to Re: She left a message, posted by TherapyGirl on May 4, 2007, at 13:31:25
Sorry TG.
Mebbe you can explain that as T its HER responsibility to maintain the SAFETY. It is not safe if you forever worried others may hear. It is NOT safe if SHE doesn't take this seriously.How can you trust then? She NEEDS to take this WAY more seriously.
I'd be way pissed too.
I'd hate to see you waste a session talking about a problem in her practice....could you just phone her and talk to her personally and explain? I really don't think this should cut into your T time. Its not like this is just you overreacting, this is a prob that she needs to take seriously and to address it and resolve it.
Take care,
Muffled
Posted by Dinah on May 4, 2007, at 17:21:18
In reply to Re: Weird Session)) Honore and » gazo, posted by TherapyGirl on May 4, 2007, at 5:23:32
Argh. Is she perhaps as bad at phone calls as my therapist is?
I can't *ever* expect to get a satisfactory answer from him on the phone.
Posted by TherapyGirl on May 4, 2007, at 18:37:36
In reply to Re: Weird Session)) Honore and » TherapyGirl, posted by Dinah on May 4, 2007, at 17:21:18
She's *usually* very good on the phone, with the occasional one she flubs. I think there were a couple of things going on with her message today: I think she got distracted by something (or either forgot who she was calling and/or why) right at the beginning of the message. And then I think she was talking to my adult self when she should have been talking to my child self. She's usually much more proficient at making that determination, but she really blew this one.
I don't really want to spend therapy time talking about this -- on the other hand, when my child self gets triggered like this, it's usually an important therapy issue.
I may leave her another voice mail over the weekend, though.
Posted by Honore on May 5, 2007, at 22:17:09
In reply to Re: Weird Session)) Honore and » Dinah, posted by TherapyGirl on May 4, 2007, at 18:37:36
I'm surprised your T doesn't take your concerns as more paramount. Is there any chance that you and she might sometimes not take some of your feelings as seriously as you should? Even if the other patient has special problems-- it doesn't mean your problems aren't as valid-- they shouldn't take a back seat or somehow be pushed aside so as not to be "mean" even if the other person does have this disability.Maybe it's just your T's sense of security-- and it's more a practical issue that you could impress on her from your point of view. But whatever reason the other patient had for being in her waiting room-- the audibility of conversation in her office is really something she needs to pay attention to.
Honore
Posted by TherapyGirl on May 7, 2007, at 16:53:06
In reply to Re: Weird Session)) Honore and » TherapyGirl, posted by Honore on May 5, 2007, at 22:17:09
Thanks, Honore. She usually is very good about understanding my concerns and responding appropriately. But, as she likes to point out, she's human and she missed the boat on this one.
And there is no waiting room -- one of my many, many problems with her current office setup. There is literally a hallway and a staircase outside her door. And anyone wandering around out there can hear what's being said in that office.
I did leave her another voice mail last night and basically let her know I was irritated and apparently had not done an adequate job of explaining how this triggered all of my issues with her office being in a church. We'll no doubt discuss it Thursday and then I'll try to move on.
An additional thing that bothers me about the particular incident last week is that when the woman came to the door she said, "Do we meet at 7? Because I saw that other lady leave." Which I think means that she was watching the woman who had the 5-6 p.m. slot. This is TWO HOURS before her scheduled session and how did she know what that woman looked like? I couldn't pick another one of my T's clients out of a lineup. So I'm concerned that there's more going on here than my T realizes.
Thanks for the support.
Posted by TherapyGirl on May 12, 2007, at 13:43:54
In reply to Re: Weird Session)) ))Honore, posted by TherapyGirl on May 7, 2007, at 16:53:06
So we talked about the therapy interruption the week before and my fear that people could stand out in the hall and listen to what is being said in T's office. And how unsafe all of this feels to me, with it being in a church in the first place. I won't go into all the details, but suffice it to say that my father is a minister, I spent a large portion of my growing-up years in churches and almost everything I ever said in a church somehow got repeated to my parents (and then, of course, I got in trouble for it).
She still doesn't seem to get it. She implied very strongly that I need to get over it. I didn't detect any sympathy in her at all, which is very unusual. Part of the problem, I think, is that she likes this office the best of any she has had and I like it the least. And she seems a little defensive about it to me. When I complained that the woman the week before had obviously been watching the comings and goings from her office (because the woman said she saw the "other lady" leave, meaning her 5 p.m. appt., two full hours before this woman's appt.), T told me I was paranoid. Then she gave me some cockamamy excuse about how the woman could have seen the earlier client without watching the office. But it didn't make sense at all -- my explanation is much more plausible. Then she raised her voice and said something about me having to trust her and that she would NOT EVER work in a place where privacy was compromised like that. Then she asked me if I believed that. I told her I didn't think she would if she knew, but that I also thought she was oblivious.
We stopped talking about it shortly after that. I honestly don't know what to do from here. Those of you who have read other posts I've written about my T know that we usually have a very strong connection. But the last two weeks I just haven't felt it at all. No doubt if I brought it up, she would say it was me. But I don't think it is this time.
It is possible that the lack of sympathy is her way of trying to get me over the hump of moving past something that is obviously still being triggered from childhood stuff. But she is completely ignoring the 3-year-old inside me, which is a choice I don't have.
So what do I do now?
Posted by muffled on May 12, 2007, at 19:36:52
In reply to Still Not Thrilled with T's Response -- LONG, posted by TherapyGirl on May 12, 2007, at 13:43:54
Is she at least gonna get a sound masker thing???????
HER job is to provide a safe space for her client.
You are not feeling safe.
Your T needs to get a grip.
Maybe she got some stuff going on in her own life?
Dunno.
Sorry.
Muffled
Posted by TherapyGirl on May 12, 2007, at 20:01:41
In reply to Re: Still Not Thrilled with T's Response -- LONG » TherapyGirl, posted by muffled on May 12, 2007, at 19:36:52
I think you're right, Muffled, about something going on. It hasn't escaped me that the loss of connection with her has happened in the two weeks she's been back from missing a week due to a death in the family. So I'm guessing she's grieving and not thinking clearly.
She doesn't seem willing to do anything to make it more private because SHE thinks it's private enough. She pretty much had a "take it or leave it" attitude. At one point she was telling me it was a rare event to have someone standing out in the hall and/or knocking on the door during a session -- that it had only happened 3 times since she's been using the church office. Personally, I think that's a lot. So I said, "I will try to trust you that this is a safe place. But if anything like that EVER happens again, I will not be able to meet in this office." I sort of expected her to say we would work something out if that happened. Instead she said, "That's your choice."
So do you think I should mention the possibility that her grief is interfering with her ability to discuss this fairly?
Posted by Daisym on May 12, 2007, at 21:03:55
In reply to Re: Still Not Thrilled with T's Response -- LONG » muffled, posted by TherapyGirl on May 12, 2007, at 20:01:41
I think maybe you should let it rest. See what the next few weeks feels like and if you can pull yourself back inside the room instead of being half outside, listening and watching for other clients. If you can't, then bring it up again.
Your therapists may just be a bit lower on creativity right now and thinking "I've got bigger problems than this to contend with." I don't mean to sugget that this isn't super important - privacy is really high on my list, but she doesn't seem to have the capacity to change anything right now. You've been seeing your therapist a long time, so how would she feel if YOU bought a white noise machine? They aren't that expensive and it might be a way to take charge of this - especially if she sees it as your problem. I might present it with, "*I* need this to feel safe in here, please don't be offended." Or something like that.
I hope this gets resolved soon. The therapy space is hugely important but it should be background to your healing, not itself an issue.
Posted by tofuemmy on May 12, 2007, at 22:54:16
In reply to Re: Still Not Thrilled with T's Response -- LONG » TherapyGirl, posted by Daisym on May 12, 2007, at 21:03:55
Church office space is cheap and even free sometimes. So, she may be defensive because of her own financial situation. NOT a good excuse, but one she could choose to be up front about.
Take care, em
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