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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by 10derHeart on June 15, 2005, at 0:42:28
Here is an email I sent my T. at 1:30 AM a couple days ago. Not even sure why I'm posting this. It will surely appear as some attempt to get sympathy/empathy, or something. Which is fine...but, well, that's not it entirely. I think I want some way to quickly show sort of where I'm *at* with this T., and in my inner world these days.
I don't know. I like to tell Babblers about therapy, but my sessions have swung so wildly all over the place for months that I don't know what *issues* we're been working on, if any. Maybe, possibly, still the biggest one of all. That trust mountain we're always climbing. I see it like that in my mind. Like those who trek up Mt. Everest and have to stop at camps at different levels.
Guess my sending this email to him feels like I've truly reached that first base camp and being able to relax and rejuvenate a bit, knowing he's real and warm and safe and *there* (like tents and heaters and food, etc?). It's good, but scary because I have to go outside and face the cold mountain again.
(If I borrowed this metaphor from anyone here - please forgive me. It's one of those things that popped into my head, but now I'm doubting if it's an original thought or one I read here once....d*mn, I hate not knowing...)
Here's this lovely email. I cringe now when I re-read it. Don't want any of this to be how I think/feel - but, as dear Alex likes to say, "and there it is." Even worse, this isn't even close to the depth of things. Just skimming the surface, really.
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I am really not a worthwhile person. Maybe I once was, but not now, or in the foreseeable future.I have no motivation. I can't sustain interest in much. I am weak and have no willpower.
I have lots of apathy when depressed. I have almost as much apathy when not depressed.
My life has little substance in it. I don't really "do" anything.
Seems almost the only thing that matters is therapy. But that’s stupid.
Because it matters…. for what? Everything seems like...so what?
I am too old/weak/unfocused/overwhelmed to change anything.
The Bible says the plan is to prosper us and not to harm us....but that may be all in what "prosper" means to Him.
For me, it must be "prosperous" to be very alone and very invisible, empty and useless.
I fool myself, arrogantly thinking I try to work hard, even do kind of well in therapy.
When I may in reality, be the biggest joke ever. You and Dr. XXX (< name of ex-T.) could have a good laugh together.
I never even mention the really hurtful stuff. I am too scared and maybe too proud for that.
Not looking foolish, weak, shallow or selfish to you is apparently more important than revealing honest truths. Just more evidence of stupidity.
I intensely dislike myself right now, to say the least.
How can you help someone who doesn’t know what they want or need from one day to the next?
Or, who knows, but also is fairly sure these things are never going to come to pass anyway?
Never ever :-(
I am frustrated. Or at least I would be if I cared enough. Do I care a little bit because I’m going to send this message?
I don’t know. Maybe, but...I just feel bad. Bad, then numb, then bad, then stupid, then bad.....
It must feel great to be a therapist and get to read such cr*p. But, you are a therapist who wrote:
"I think it is important to have a way to "say" what is on your mind when you are thinking/feeling it. So, email is a great way to do that and make sure that I "hear" it."
How do you like what's on my mind at 1 am? Be careful what you ask for, I guess. Can you hear me now? :-( (This is not fair to you. I'm really sorry :-( )
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(Hope the Bible/God reference didn't distress anyone. I am always tip-toeing areound that here on Babble. My T. and I are both of the same religious tradition, so this stuff about certain scripture verses, etc., is naturally interwoven into our talking with each other.)BTW, he replied with lovely words, very caring and full of empathy. He did not allow me to get away with apologizing for sharing feelings when I had them, or calling myself a "joke." I replied to him, he replied again, even more kindly, saying he read my 2nd msg. several times and was struggling with what to say to me at this point. He's really a good and sincere T. I just think I'm a crappy client right now. So needy, yet....if I really show it all...what then? It's neverending.....
Honestly, all I fear about tomorrow's session is having it end. I really don't like leaving his office at all lately. I like talking to him and at least there I'm *seen* and *heard* and best of all, NOT alone. Oh, this has gone beyond pathetic.
It scares me how much I look forward to sessions. Been down a similar road before. Different, yet the same, too. Therapy is hard and confusing.
Posted by daisym on June 15, 2005, at 1:03:06
In reply to Sharing an Email Sent to My T. (very long), posted by 10derHeart on June 15, 2005, at 0:42:28
I don't think you are pathetic at all..Therapy *is* hard and confusing. It doesn't seem odd to me at all that you want to stay in your therapist's office and be seen and be heard and be held emotionally. It sounds like what you need right now.
I hear so much hurt and sadness behind that apathy. I wish I knew the secret of life, of what God's definition of prosper is. I suspect he wants us to love each other so that none feel alone.
1am is a horrible time. 2am and 3am aren't much better. The demons are out and the internal children who are so needy and scared wake up. Often I'm awake. So I'll send you good thoughts and you can think of me and I hope, not feel so alone.
I hope tomorrow goes well.
Hugs from me,
Daisy
Posted by Tamar on June 15, 2005, at 6:08:43
In reply to Sharing an Email Sent to My T. (very long), posted by 10derHeart on June 15, 2005, at 0:42:28
I’m so glad to see you back at Babble, 10der. And I’m so sorry you’re feeling so unhappy. I’m so sorry to hear the self-loathing in your words, because I think you are such a wonderful person. It seems very sad that you feel so little self-worth when you show so much love and understanding to others.
I’m glad your T replied with empathy and told you that you are not a joke. He sounds like a wonderful therapist. And I’m sorry you feel that being needy means you are being a cr*ppy client. On the contrary, I think sharing your feelings makes you a good client. There’s nothing wrong with being needy; that’s what therapy is for. And if you really show it all, what will your therapist do? I’m certain he will respond with the same caring and empathy he has already shown. It’s good that you are trusting him with your feelings. And it’s great that he is able to see and hear you.
I thought about the ‘prosper you and not harm you’ verse (Jer 29:11 NIV) and I noticed that the RSV translation gives:
For I know the plans I have for you, says the LORD, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give to you a future and a hope.
This is closer to the original Hebrew than the NIV. The word translated ‘prosper’ in the NIV (and ‘welfare’ in the RSV) is the word shalom, which means completeness, peace and welfare. I think you’ve hit on a verse that is particularly significant for people who feel depressed and overwhelmed. To me the verse suggests hope for a happier future, and the possibility of change: the possibility of an end to suffering (especially when we consider the context in Jeremiah). I hope it’s OK for me to comment on the Bible like this. If not, I apologise.I agree with you when you say that therapy is hard and confusing! I’m glad that you look forward to sessions. It sounds to me as if you are finding some comfort there, which is undoubtedly just what you need right now.
Big hugs,
Tamar
Posted by Jazzed on June 15, 2005, at 8:59:15
In reply to Sharing an Email Sent to My T. (very long), posted by 10derHeart on June 15, 2005, at 0:42:28
Gosh 10der,
I don't see this as an attempt to get sympathy at all. Seems to me it reveals the depths of your pain, and maybe these are things you just can't bring yourself to put into words, but can put down on paper/email? It seems to me that you've had a lot of pain and loss in your life, things you haven't fully worked through. Maybe a fear of getting too close again, a fear of being left again.
It's wonderful that you can talk to your T through email in between sessions, and that he is so wonderful and devoted. I hope your session goes well, and you can talk through some of this with your T.
(((Hugs)))
Jazzy
Posted by Dinah on June 15, 2005, at 11:20:49
In reply to Sharing an Email Sent to My T. (very long), posted by 10derHeart on June 15, 2005, at 0:42:28
It is confusing and hard. I think that email was a lovely expression of trust. And he responded in a way that proved him worthy of that trust.
Naturally, I think you're a wonderful person, and I hope that someday you'll see yourself as others see you. That seems a good focus to therapy.
I'm not feeling very articulate right now, and I apologize for the brevity of my post. :(
Posted by Aphrodite on June 15, 2005, at 13:47:59
In reply to Sharing an Email Sent to My T. (very long), posted by 10derHeart on June 15, 2005, at 0:42:28
Wow. You're email was very moving. I'm glad you sent it to him -- he'll have greater insight in how to help. I hope he can show you how to see things differently. I'm glad you're not keeping those thoughts to yourself. Sometimes, I have been able to see myself differently and since I trust my T, I believe him when he says positive things about me. It can chip away at all of my negative self-image.
I'm glad he responded in such an empathetic and thoughtful way. Sounds like you have a really wonderful therapist. I'll be interested in how a discussion goes about your email.
Posted by happyflower on June 15, 2005, at 16:52:11
In reply to Re: Sharing an Email Sent to My T. (very long) » 10derHeart, posted by Aphrodite on June 15, 2005, at 13:47:59
10derHeart, I am so proud of you for writing that email and SENDING it to him. It takes great courage and you did it! I am glad you T is sensitive to your needs. He sounds wonderful :)
I also feel like I am climbing the mountain of trust. I feel like I am finally at the 2nd camp and it feels so good, so refreshing. I don't know high the mountain is, but I am stuggling with getting to the top. What is at the top? I have no idea, but it feels better then being stuck in a crevice at the bottom.
I don't know "your story" and why you are in therapy, but I really feel your pain. It resembles mine and it is tough sometimes to read about but it is also helping me too. :) I also feel like my last sessions for the last 2 months have been crazy, going from one topic to another one. But it gets better. My T once told me that a lot of his clients have maybe one or two clogs in their drains in their house. But I have so many clogs because I am a mansion and it will take longer to fix my stuff. He put it much better than what I am saying. I am so tired right now it is hard to think. Well, how did your session go? How do you feel? I care about you and I hope you are allright. Please post when you feel up to it. ((((10derHeart)))
Posted by pinkeye on June 15, 2005, at 18:05:08
In reply to Sharing an Email Sent to My T. (very long), posted by 10derHeart on June 15, 2005, at 0:42:28
Take Care 10der.
Don't allow yourself this kind of self loathing. You are too good for that.
I am glad you have a wonderful T.
Hugs
Pinkeye.
Posted by Damos on June 16, 2005, at 17:21:31
In reply to Sharing an Email Sent to My T. (very long), posted by 10derHeart on June 15, 2005, at 0:42:28
Dear sweet 10der,
Thank you so much for sharing your T-mail. When I was reading it I kinda slipped sideways in my head if that makes any kinda sense. They became my words. Words that I needed to hear myself say. Thank -you.
You are so not pathetic or weak or worthless, and you are certainly not a joke. And your T-mail is most definitely not cr*p. Far, far from it. Each time I read it it effects me tangibly, physically.
I am so glad he responded to you in the way he did, sounds like a 'keeper' to me. For all the things the T-mail and post made you feel about yourself know that they helped someone, and that you help so many someones just by your very being. I am so proud to know you 10der and so full of admiration of your honesty, humour, courage and resiliance.
Posted by 10derHeart on June 17, 2005, at 0:06:46
In reply to Re: Sharing an Email Sent to My T. (very long) » 10derHeart, posted by Damos on June 16, 2005, at 17:21:31
> Thank you so much for sharing your T-mail.
I just love that term "T-mail." It's completely perfect. May I use it in the future? I want to tell my T., too - he will like it.>>When I was reading it I kinda slipped sideways in my head if that makes any kinda sense. They became my words. Words that I needed to hear myself say. Thank -you.
Oh, I wouldn't wish most of those words on anyone else. But, we do all try to be as honest as we can here, and I know you've said before you have some pretty bad feelings about yourself. I understand - as you can surely see. :-( Hope we can BOTH see, though, with it all written down, how "over-the-top" it mostly is - we can't *really* be all that....but d*mn if it isn't more ingrained than I thought.... Don't know how to take your thanks, though...?
> You are so not pathetic or weak or worthless, and you are certainly not a joke. And your T-mail is most definitely not cr*p. Far, far from it.Thank you. But you see what I let you see on Babble. I really am doing next to nothing IRL now that makes my getting up each day mean much. I seem to have (on purpose, in some ways) dug myself into quite a messy place, socially, financially, mentally, emotionally - only spiritually can I say I'm steadily hanging on to some goodness - and for me that may make *all* the difference...I hope....
>>Each time I read it it effects me tangibly, physically.
Wow. That's powerful. I can't really imagine how. Except that you shudder in disgust at all my *fine* qualities? :-( But obviously that's not what you meant. Can you describe that more? Only if you want to, though, of course.
> I am so glad he responded to you in the way he did, sounds like a 'keeper' to me.
Yup. We're still struggling. But what's great is that it's OK to do that. He seems to welcome the constant checking, questioning, picking apart of the relationship itself. I need that in a T. Funny - yesterday I about wanted to kill him (figuratively), 'cause I felt he'd disappointed me somehow....but only for a few hours. (Depression and crushing lonliness tend to warp one's view) Today, he made me feel so secure, smart and comfortable with a simple email, I am *okay* again for a while. He is a good man and a good T. No wonder, as he was recommended by my former T. - the best T. in the world (well except for Daisy's, Dinah's, Voce's ex.-T, etc., etc., etc....)
>For all the things the T-mail and post made you feel about yourself know that they helped someone, and that you help so many someones just by your very being. I am so proud to know you 10der and so full of admiration of your honesty, humour, courage and resiliance.
I don't know what to say, Damos. You're something else. I just can't even respond to that. I just wish....nah, it doesn't matter right now... many warm hugs to you >> (((((Damos)))))
Posted by Damos on June 19, 2005, at 17:14:04
In reply to Re: Sharing an Email Sent to My T. (very long) » Damos, posted by 10derHeart on June 17, 2005, at 0:06:46
> I just love that term "T-mail." It's completely perfect. May I use it in the future? I want to tell my T., too - he will like it.
I would be honoured, feel free
> Thank you. But you see what I let you see on Babble. I really am doing next to nothing IRL now that makes my getting up each day mean much. I seem to have (on purpose, in some ways) dug myself into quite a messy place, socially, financially, mentally, emotionally - only spiritually can I say I'm steadily hanging on to some goodness - and for me that may make *all* the difference...I hope....
Now you see, I get up and come to work everyday, because I know I have to to get through the day. But once I'm here it all comes apart and nothing happens, nothing gets done and I feel guilty that thye pay me to just sit here and take up space without contributing. I have aproject on which I haven't lifted a finger in 2 months - just can't make myslef focus on it and it blew up in my face on Friday a week from implementation. The sad truth is that I was hoping it would. I think it was my way of waving hte white flag or crying out for help or both. Not good thought cause there's going to be hell to pay now.
> Wow. That's powerful. I can't really imagine how. Except that you shudder in disgust at all my *fine* qualities? :-( But obviously that's not what you meant. Can you describe that more? Only if you want to, though, of course.
I can only describe it as a seismic event like a small (okay not so small) internal earthquake, accompanied by a shiver and sense of intense coldness. Oh yeah, and that sense you get of something being way too close to home.
> I don't know what to say, Damos. You're something else. I just can't even respond to that. I just wish....nah, it doesn't matter right now... many warm hugs to you >> (((((Damos)))))
You don't need to say anything, being able to share space here with you is enough. I'm something else alright - just wish I knew what.
Big warm hugs right back at you.
(((((10der)))))
>
This is the end of the thread.
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