![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 27. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by pinkeye on May 27, 2005, at 16:31:58
And I have done it with my current T. I am as unemotional as I could ever get towards a person.. and I will be terminating with her in couple of months.. But guess what, I will be able to terminate in a day with her, and not even think of her after that. No attachment, no hurting and no worries.
Posted by pinkeye on May 27, 2005, at 16:32:27
In reply to it might sound quite bitter, but that helps you., posted by pinkeye on May 27, 2005, at 16:31:58
Posted by happyflower on May 27, 2005, at 16:50:10
In reply to it might sound quite bitter, but that helps you., posted by pinkeye on May 27, 2005, at 16:31:58
I appreciate your honesty pinkeye. I think highly of people who call give it to me straight. I feel your pain and believe me I don't want to go through 10% of what you feel. I think I am over my infatuation of him ( my fairy tale is over), and only see him as a professional now. I don't know how it happened, but it did. I only want his help as a T only, and don't expect him to be friends with me. I think his strong boundries has helped me trust for the first time. He has made it quite clear that we are in a fuderiary relationship and that I can trust him to act in those terms. It has taken me a long time to trust him( even in a professional relationship) because of my past. But I feel I am getting down to the nitty gritty now that I feel I am able to talk freely with him. I hope you can heal your pain pinkeye soon, I have become fond of you and really look forward to seeing your replies, especially to me, lol) Believe me I would have never told you that or anyone else last year. I hope I didn't freak you out. :) I am just being honest!
Posted by pinkeye on May 27, 2005, at 17:00:58
In reply to Re: it might sound quite bitter, but that helps you. » pinkeye, posted by happyflower on May 27, 2005, at 16:50:10
Thanks. It is nice to be thought of fondly. I like your posts as well. I remember myself as 2 - 3 years back when I read your posts - struggling through the initial stages. I can perfectly understand everything you are feeling.
I am not in pain that much nowadays. I am actually healing I guess. I am trying to systematically dismantle all that I built myself - all the transference and attachment, and mistakes and pain and hurt and everything. I am trying to see things for what they are and understand and move on.
I now perfectly understand my exTs attitude.. he wanted to help me, and let me grow, and I think he didn't want me to develop any attachment towards him or liking. And me - I had to develop all those feelings and intensity and go through the roller coaster ride of attahcment, liking and hurting and pain and losing. I think all of it was needed for me to heal. Because I had way too many problems with my dad - I couldn't have done it otherwise. All the longings and deep emotional problems - came out becuase of my attachment towards my exT. And now I am aware of all of it.
Posted by happyflower on May 27, 2005, at 17:14:39
In reply to Re: it might sound quite bitter, but that helps you. » happyflower, posted by pinkeye on May 27, 2005, at 17:00:58
Pinkeye, I do hear a lot of pain in your posts, are you sure you aren't suppressing your feelings? Please don't get upset that I am saying that. I really care and worry about you. I think your feelings are well justified, and it is okay to feel them, but you seem to have a lot of bitterness even when it comes to your current T. Is your current T helping you with your ex T and your father stuff? I hope your feeling for your ex T aren't interfering with bonding even a professial relationship with your new T. I could be off base, believe me, but please forgive me for asking. You just don't sound like your sweet self.
Posted by happyflower on May 27, 2005, at 17:30:18
In reply to Re: it might sound quite bitter, but that helps you., posted by happyflower on May 27, 2005, at 17:14:39
I think you sound angry which is part of the grieving process. So you are probably processing your pain. I just need to learn to keep my big mouth shut today.
Posted by pinkeye on May 27, 2005, at 17:35:12
In reply to Re: it might sound quite bitter, but that helps you., posted by happyflower on May 27, 2005, at 17:14:39
No. I am fine. There is nothing to suppress.
Thanks for caring about me.
And I don't have bitterness - neither towards my ex T nor towards my current T. I just see them for what they are. They are professionals, and with my ex T I confused it, and somehow thought it is a personal caring. But now I know how mistaken I had been. He helped me a lot and is a good doctor - but that is the end of it.
I never really thought of him as a doctor so far. I always thought of him like a friend. Only now I have started thinking of him as a doctor. He was just a doctor. A good one surely, but at the end of it, he just treated me. That was all there ever was to it. If he had thought of me as a friend, he would never have been able to dismiss me like he did. And why should I think otherwise? Anyway, all that was some transference and reliving of past and replaying of history. It really is not valid at all.
And where is the pain in this? I don't think I have any pain now. I am just seeing things in the right way for once. It seems totally pointless to me now.
And regarding my current T, she is just a T. And what am I supposed to feel for her? I don't feel anything. I don't think of her beyond that 50 minutes, and even in those 50 minutes I don't think of her.
I think I am healing really well now. It probably sounds like I am bitter or angry - but I am not. Everyone in this board thinks of their Ts like Gods. I have started seeing it in a different light now. I am not bitter.
> Pinkeye, I do hear a lot of pain in your posts, are you sure you aren't suppressing your feelings? Please don't get upset that I am saying that. I really care and worry about you. I think your feelings are well justified, and it is okay to feel them, but you seem to have a lot of bitterness even when it comes to your current T. Is your current T helping you with your ex T and your father stuff? I hope your feeling for your ex T aren't interfering with bonding even a professial relationship with your new T. I could be off base, believe me, but please forgive me for asking. You just don't sound like your sweet self.
Posted by happyflower on May 27, 2005, at 17:53:13
In reply to Re: it might sound quite bitter, but that helps you. » happyflower, posted by pinkeye on May 27, 2005, at 17:35:12
My T told me something interesting this week about marriages. He said they all end up in a bad way. 50% of marriage end up in divorse = bad. 25% stay married but are truely miserable= bad, and the other 25% one person dies before the other= bad. So if you really think about all relationship end up bad. But why people invest in relationships? Because it has a chance of giving us joy. You know I have read a story on the net about what a T feels when they have to say goodbye to us. From what he said, there emotions are somewhat the same. It is bittersweet for them too. But they can't tell us that because we wouldn't truely heal ourselves and live on our own. That's why eventually kids leave the nest, not because they don't care, but because they have to lead there own lives. Boy am I sappy today. What has my T done to me, all these feelings, yikes, sappy,yikes. I was too hard a@@ in the past to be sappy, now look at me! AUUUGGGHHH! I don't know if this is good thing!
Posted by pinkeye on May 27, 2005, at 18:11:24
In reply to relationships, posted by happyflower on May 27, 2005, at 17:53:13
I really don't think my ex T felt or my current T feels anything for me. Ever.
They might sometime show interest and care - but that is because of curiosity and the case being unique. I don't think it ever gets into personal caring and liking for the Ts. It never ever does. My father was a doctor. So I know how doctors really feel. They never treat a patient personally and they never get attached. They have seen it all - murders, rapes, victims, abuses, kids dying, parents dying leaving their kids, people starving for days. Believe me - they have seen everything. And it leaves them heartless. My dad and many other doctor uncles I know, are like that. They never think highly of their patients. In fact they are outright bored, irritated, mean and cruel. I don't blame them - becuase they are also human and humans can only see so much of suffering. Beyond a point, they become cold themselves. So I think the same thing happens to Ts. After hearing lots of sad stories, they beocme really cold and unattached. If I were a T, I would have become cold long time back.
I don't really think of the T relationship as a marriage relationship or kids leaving the nest etc. Marriage is an equal dual relationshp and both parties have equal control. Plus marriage is also more long term, and there is a chance for getting your desires fulfilled. Taht is totally a different ball game. Kids leaving the nest is also different. They leave the nest perhaps, but they always come back and visit whenver they want. You don't throw the kids ouf of your nest one day and forget all about them.
Posted by Dinah on May 27, 2005, at 18:15:34
In reply to Re: it might sound quite bitter, but that helps you. » happyflower, posted by pinkeye on May 27, 2005, at 17:35:12
> Everyone in this board thinks of their Ts like Gods.
I understand you are upset. But I don't think that statement is at all true of most if not all people on this board.
I think of no one like God, except God.
Certainly not my very human therapist.
Posted by happyflower on May 27, 2005, at 18:23:05
In reply to Re: relationships » happyflower, posted by pinkeye on May 27, 2005, at 18:11:24
I hate to see that you have experieced that doctors don't care personally. I have seen some that do, no they aren't personal friends, but they do care. My cousin is a doctor and is very loving and never says anything bad about his patients and he truely cares.
Then my kids ped. doctor, actually came to our house to deliver the news about my daughter heart defect,( and needing open heart surgury) she couldn't bear to tell me over the phone and it was the weekend. She knew I was freaking out and couldn't wait 2 days to get the news. She felt a certain something special for my daughter. I have also socialized with her before, and found her to be a neat person just like she was a neat doctor. But I do believe there are cold doctors out there, especailly the ones who have to deal with dying patients a lot. If they emotionally got involved, it would wear them down.
I didn't mean to imply that the T's relationship is the same as a mariage or having kids. I was talking about relationship in general. But I do believe my T cares about me, but not as a friend, but as a client or patient. I think T's would suck if they didn't care at least a little. I don't know, I could be wrong, I am new to all of this.
Posted by pinkeye on May 27, 2005, at 18:27:10
In reply to Re: it might sound quite bitter, but that helps you. » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on May 27, 2005, at 18:15:34
Got you. Sorry about that statement.
Posted by Dinah on May 27, 2005, at 18:28:51
In reply to Re: relationships, posted by happyflower on May 27, 2005, at 18:23:05
> I think T's would suck if they didn't care at least a little. I don't know, I could be wrong, I am new to all of this.
I don't think you're wrong. My therapist says that if he doesn't really care about a client, they usually sense it and leave quickly. Which I actually liked better than if he said he cared for all his clients. Other than in the sense that you have a responsibility toward them and hope they do well.
My favorite post on the topic is this one from Gardenergirl.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20040303/msgs/321437.html
Posted by Dinah on May 27, 2005, at 18:31:46
In reply to Re: it might sound quite bitter, but that helps you. » Dinah, posted by pinkeye on May 27, 2005, at 18:27:10
I do understand you have reason to be upset.
Posted by pinkeye on May 27, 2005, at 18:45:09
In reply to It's ok, Pinkeye., posted by Dinah on May 27, 2005, at 18:31:46
I am not upset.
Posted by pinkeye on May 27, 2005, at 18:46:20
In reply to Re: relationships, posted by happyflower on May 27, 2005, at 18:23:05
Perhaps in the US it is so. in India they are so bugged by so many patients, they become cold.
Posted by happyflower on May 27, 2005, at 18:49:25
In reply to Re: relationships » happyflower, posted by Dinah on May 27, 2005, at 18:28:51
Thanks Diane for the link, it made me feel much better. I do think my T likes me, but thats all. I think if we met IRL, he would still like me. I make him laugh, make him frusterated, make his ego grow sometimes, and can't you really tell when you connect with someone? Even if it is professional? I like my allergist too. He invited me and my DH to sit in on his band. My DH and I are both patients, so I don't know how I feel about that but it was nice of him. People are people.But I deceided having my T in the future if I needed him is much more important than being his friend IRL. Besides, doesn't it get a little harry for a man and a women to become friends if they are both married. I mean I can see married people being friends with other couples, but being friends with the other sex could lead to a lot of problems for everyone.
Posted by Dinah on May 27, 2005, at 18:52:30
In reply to Re: relationships » Dinah, posted by happyflower on May 27, 2005, at 18:49:25
That sounds like a healthy attitude.
I'm lucky, I think, in that I'm really happy with the relationship remaining in the therapy room. My therapist isn't really someone I'd hang out with in real life, and vice versa.
Posted by Dinah on May 27, 2005, at 18:54:59
In reply to Re: It's ok, Pinkeye. » Dinah, posted by pinkeye on May 27, 2005, at 18:45:09
Are you sure? I think I might have upset you the other day, and I really didn't mean to. I wasn't saying anything about your posts, or anything like that. I was just concerned because you seemed so unhappy.
Posted by pinkeye on May 27, 2005, at 19:10:24
In reply to Pinkeye? » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on May 27, 2005, at 18:54:59
No. You didn't upset me. Neither did Jazzed that day. I think that day was a turning point. I realized the worthlessness of all this - trying to find closure, talking about it till it heals blah blah blah. It is not possible.
Not sweeping it under the carpet, but really at some point you have to decide to just forget and move on. There really is no point in trying to heal when all it does is lead you to more and more rumination.
I am fine now. I am not upset. And I am not angry. And I am not bitter. Just that I think I need to focus on moving on hereafter and not try to heal further. There doesn't seem to be any point. I have really done enough of it.
Posted by JenStar on May 27, 2005, at 19:12:52
In reply to Re: relationships » happyflower, posted by pinkeye on May 27, 2005, at 18:11:24
Pinkeye,
I have a different experience with doctors. My family had a really cool doctor while I was growing up. I'll call him "Doctor M." He saw all of us, and he was genuinely nice and concerned not just about us, but all his patients. My sister worked in his office and babysat his kids, and he would make extra time for my family if we needed an urgent appointment. He called to check on us if someone was having a serious issue or surgery. So it was very nice. My sister said that he treated ALL his patients well. Of course he couldn't develop deep friendships with all of them, but there was a lot of respect and friendliness and concern. The patients liked him so much that his office would fill with presents (mostly food and baked goods) at the holidays.My current doctor, while not having the "Dr. M" kind of relationship with me, is cordial and kind. She seems concerned. I'm confident that she never joke about me or says mean things with other doctors.
I can understand that doctors get overwhelmed by patients and illness sometimes, but I really have met nice doctors. I have one best friend who is becoming a doctor and another who IS a doctor, and they are fantastic people!
I'm sorry you saw the ugly side of medicine, but there is a beautiful side, too.
Take care!
JenStar
Posted by JenStar on May 27, 2005, at 19:16:37
In reply to Re: relationships » Dinah, posted by happyflower on May 27, 2005, at 18:49:25
Happflower,
I totally know what you mean about feeling the "friendship click" with people, whether they are professionals or not. I've met certain people with whom I just feel an instant connection, and I LIKE them, and want to know them more. Sometimes I can't really pursue it -- as you said, it's sort of not culturally acceptable for a married woman to be friends with a different married man. At least, not in my "fuddy duddy" circle and strata and all that. Maybe amongst the hipsters and raging youth in San Francisco or New York, the urban punky cool kids who wear black and glitter with piercings, it would be completely OK to "friend up" with whomever. But for me, it's not really all that acceptable, here in middle class suburbia!But still, you can feel that spark and know that you feel a kinship with this person.
It's cool that your doc invited you to the band! Did you go? How was it?
JenStar
Posted by pinkeye on May 27, 2005, at 19:20:21
In reply to Re: relationships » pinkeye, posted by JenStar on May 27, 2005, at 19:12:52
Actually I have seen the good side of doctors as well.
My ex T was a good doctor himself. Pretty good. Only that I don't think they really care personally too much about their patients. After sometime, the patients just become like projects, and not really persons I guess. My ex T cared about me - professionally. Just like I may care about a software project that I am working on. I would try to think it out and try to do it well, and try to make sure it isn't buggy and well designed and efficient. But once it is done, I lose the interest. I think that is what the professional interest and curiosity is. And I forget my projects. IT is only the interest and the solving of the problem that matters - not the project itself. For me it does not matter if it is project X or project Y - as long as it is somewhat interesting to me. I think in some way, Drs also come to feel the same about their patients. They see so many of us, (atleast in India), that they start thinking of people like projects. And I don't blame them. They need to do it if they need to keep themselves sane. And I really wouldn't be expecting my arthritis doctor to keep in touch with me after tmerination. In fact he retired last december, and I haven't thought much about him after that. I should have adopted the same attitute towards my psychiatrist also. That is what I am saying.
Posted by happyflower on May 27, 2005, at 19:29:43
In reply to Re: relationships » happyflower, posted by JenStar on May 27, 2005, at 19:16:37
> > . Maybe amongst the hipsters and raging youth in San Francisco or New York, the urban punky cool kids who wear black and glitter with piercings, it would be completely OK to "friend up" with whomever. But for me, it's not really all that acceptable, here in middle class suburbia!
>
I think I have never met any of those punky people before, not in the Midwest USA but I get your point! lol But what is funny is that my nickname in the music industry was punky, but more like punky brewster, if you old enough to remember! lol "Kinda like Shirley Temple! I think I have clicked with my T and I think he feels the same but I now understand why there are boundries and tend to agree with them. But it makes talking about the difficult things easier, if you feel the T likes you and doesn't think you suck as a person.
No, we haven't preformed together yet. Maybe my DH will, he plays drums, but me, I haven't picked up the trumpet in 10 years. Thanks for asking! lol
Posted by happyflower on May 27, 2005, at 20:10:05
In reply to it might sound quite bitter, but that helps you., posted by pinkeye on May 27, 2005, at 16:31:58
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.