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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by messadivoce on May 17, 2005, at 16:09:20
My biggest regret about my therapy is that I did not tell my T about the csa.
I was too ashamed. I think that if I had been forced to tell, I would have curled up and died of humiliation. You see, I still think it was my fault. As though I caused it. And worse, I had biological responses to it that my body couldn't help. There are undeniable consequences that are present in my abilities to be intimate with a man.
I am not sexually active. Maybe that's part of why I'm not. I was raised a certain religious way too. But I think the shame has a lot to do with the fact that I'm 22 and still a virgin. I know, that's very weird these days. Even the gyno I went to in Feb was not good at hiding her shock. So much for professionalism. Anyway.
I wrote about how it would have been had I told my T. How he would have responded, how he would have looked and sounded, and what he would have said to me. How he would have told me it wasn't my fault. And how I would have cried. I didn't cry in 8 months of therapy with him. But in my story, I let myself sob and cry for a long time.
I'm scared that I'm wrong, that he would have reacted by being shocked or blaming me, or saying that I deserved it.
But I remember how he was with me. He was so gentle. He held me with his eyes and his voice. He made me feel safe. I have to believe that he would have been able to take this info and hold that too, along with everything else.
I miss him so much.
Posted by pinkeye on May 17, 2005, at 16:33:51
In reply to How he would have responded *****Trigger******, posted by messadivoce on May 17, 2005, at 16:09:20
I understand how you feel.
I had the same concerns. I didn't even have csa as such.. but my new T calls it that anyway.
I wish I had the courage and openness tell my ex T. And to ask him what he thought. In fact, it has caused me lots of issues and maybe even one of the major root causes of my aloofness and loneliness and identity issues. But I was afraid.
And it is too late to go now and tell him everything.
But I was afraid he will turn it onto me - maybe somehow I am to be blamed. He always used to ask me to take responsibility. And actually at that time I didn't think too much of it.
I was just hugged a lot (maybe inappropriately) and made to sleep in the same bed with my dad, hugging him etc even into adulthood. I don't know if it charecterizes as csa. And I didn't tell my ex T. Because I thought he might blame me. Actually I didn't have any control over it.. I tried to pull away several times, but my dad wouldn't let me do it. I used to sleep facing the wall many times, but my dad would always ask me to come and hug him and sleep close to him - even till I was 16 - 17. And my mom didn't object to it either.. and I didn't know if is was wrong. I used to feel very ashamed and didn't like it so much. But I always thought my dad just loves me a lot.
Posted by pinkeye on May 17, 2005, at 17:00:58
In reply to How he would have responded *****Trigger******, posted by messadivoce on May 17, 2005, at 16:09:20
I read your post again. And I wanted to add a couple of things.
It is not wrong or weird to be 22 and still a virgin. It is quite allright. In fact, in India, 99 % of the women are virgins up until they get married. It is almost expected of everyone. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it. I was a virgin until I got married - till about 25. IT is perfectly normal. Don't worry about it. And if you are raised that way, then you are that way. You cannot do anything about it.
Maybe you should tell your Ex T about the csa now, if it will help you gain closure - since from what I understood, your ex T still responds to your emails.
Posted by Tamar on May 17, 2005, at 17:37:57
In reply to How he would have responded *****Trigger******, posted by messadivoce on May 17, 2005, at 16:09:20
> My biggest regret about my therapy is that I did not tell my T about the csa.
If you weren’t ready, you weren’t ready. You can’t say it until you’re ready.
> I was too ashamed. I think that if I had been forced to tell, I would have curled up and died of humiliation. You see, I still think it was my fault. As though I caused it. And worse, I had biological responses to it that my body couldn't help. There are undeniable consequences that are present in my abilities to be intimate with a man.
Those biological responses are horrible. Inevitable, perhaps, but horrible and extremely confusing. It doesn’t mean you wanted it, or that it was your fault. We just can’t help how our bodies react. But yes, it does cause problems with intimacy later. It can take a long time to recover sexually, but it is possible. It’s hard work (well, I found it hard work) but it’s worth the effort to find pleasure in your own body and in someone else’s.
> I am not sexually active. Maybe that's part of why I'm not. I was raised a certain religious way too. But I think the shame has a lot to do with the fact that I'm 22 and still a virgin. I know, that's very weird these days. Even the gyno I went to in Feb was not good at hiding her shock. So much for professionalism. Anyway.
Are you ashamed about being a virgin? Again, like telling about the CSA, it’s a question of being ready. You have reasons for not being ready, but actually 22 isn’t that young to be a virgin. There’s no ideal age to become sexually active. Many people who have experienced CSA become sexually active at a very young age, possibly to the detriment of their sexual development. It’s probably a good thing to wait until you’re ready. One of my former lovers was 23 before he had sex for the first time, and he didn’t have a history of CSA (as far as I know). He just wanted to be ready. It’s not as unusual as people seem to think.
> I wrote about how it would have been had I told my T. How he would have responded, how he would have looked and sounded, and what he would have said to me. How he would have told me it wasn't my fault. And how I would have cried. I didn't cry in 8 months of therapy with him. But in my story, I let myself sob and cry for a long time.Yes; you need to grieve the loss. And yes, he certainly would have told you it wasn’t your fault. Good that you wrote it down; I’m sure that helps.
> I'm scared that I'm wrong, that he would have reacted by being shocked or blaming me, or saying that I deserved it.
If any T ever said you deserved it, he shouldn’t be a T. I doubt your T would have been shocked; most Ts have heard everything. And no one deserves it. I know what you mean about being afraid of a negative reaction from your T, but I’ve come to believe it’s a projection of how we feel about ourselves. If we feel guilty, we think they might make us feel guilty. And in fact, nothing could be further from the truth. It wasn’t your fault, and he would probably believe that even more strongly than you.
> But I remember how he was with me. He was so gentle. He held me with his eyes and his voice. He made me feel safe. I have to believe that he would have been able to take this info and hold that too, along with everything else.
>
> I miss him so much.Yes, I’m sure he could have held this too, and made you feel safe talking about it. Don’t beat yourself up about being unable to tell him. I can understand the regret at not taking the advantage of the opportunity to say something so important. But there’s a lot to be said for waiting until it’s possible for you. I’m guessing that now it might be more possible.
I know your therapy situation has been rather complicated and difficult recently, but I hope you will be able to start talking about all this in therapy somehow.
Incidentally, my ex-T was a man, and I found it very useful to talk to a man about sexual assault and sexual problems, but there were times when it was very difficult. I think his maleness was an advantage because I found the transference aspect of it ultimately very helpful, though terribly painful. I’m guessing that I might have found a female T easier to talk to about it all, but the transference wouldn’t have been so intense. In my situation I really needed erotic transference to make sense of my body’s reaction to the trauma, and to think about overcoming my problems with sexual intimacy, but it might be different for you.
I hope you are able to find a therapeutic environment in which you can address all this.
Tamar
Posted by messadivoce on May 17, 2005, at 19:06:10
In reply to Re: How he would have responded *****Trigger****** » messadivoce, posted by pinkeye on May 17, 2005, at 17:00:58
> It is not wrong or weird to be 22 and still a virgin. It is quite alright. In fact, in India, 99 % of the women are virgins up until they get married. It is almost expected of everyone. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it. I was a virgin until I got married - till about 25. IT is perfectly normal. Don't worry about it. And if you are raised that way, then you are that way. You cannot do anything about it. >
Thanks, pinkeye. It is such an American cultural thing. All of my friends have lost their virginity and I am the only one left. I am not usually ashamed of being a virgin, but I think my male T was a little surprised when I told him. My female T was not.
I don't talk about my virginal state when I get together with friends. Everyone assumes I'm "doing it" like everyone else. I always avoid questions about it.
> Maybe you should tell your Ex T about the csa now, if it will help you gain closure - since from what I understood, your ex T still responds to your emails.>
I would hate to spring that on him when we only communicate every few months, and he only sends a couple of lines. I think if I were to put that out there, I would need more from him than he is able to give.
Posted by messadivoce on May 17, 2005, at 19:08:13
In reply to Re: How he would have responded *****Trigger******, posted by messadivoce on May 17, 2005, at 19:06:10
Posted by pinkeye on May 17, 2005, at 19:16:53
In reply to Re: How he would have responded *****Trigger******, posted by messadivoce on May 17, 2005, at 19:06:10
Yeah, just don't talk about it if it is not accepted here among your circle of friends.
>I don't talk about my virginal state when I get together with friends. Everyone assumes I'm "doing it" like everyone else. I always avoid questions about it.
That is the reason I am not telling my ex T as well. As it is, he never replied after termination. Now if I go and tell this, it will look like I am inventing a sob story to get his attention. Maybe you can mention it casually - a one liner wihtout going into the details. I am sure though that you will not get the kind of response you would need for such a huge disclosure. IT will be pretty awkward for him and for you.
>I would hate to spring that on him when we only communicate every few months, and he only sends a couple of lines. I think if I were to put that out there, I would need more from him than he is able to give.
Posted by Poet on May 17, 2005, at 19:22:06
In reply to How he would have responded *****Trigger******, posted by messadivoce on May 17, 2005, at 16:09:20
Hi Messadivoce,
I can't say how your therapist would have responded, but mine responded with compassion. She said that she suspected it for a long time, but since I always denied it when asked, she didn't press.
My T has never blamed me, she tries hard to get me to stop blaming myself. What happened to you is not your fault.
I hope you find someone who can help you get through this. I know how horrible losing your T has been for you.
((((Messadivoce))))
Poet
Posted by pinkeye on May 17, 2005, at 19:40:11
In reply to Re: How he would have responded *****Trigger****** » messadivoce, posted by Tamar on May 17, 2005, at 17:37:57
> Those biological responses are horrible. Inevitable, perhaps, but horrible and extremely confusing. It doesn’t mean you wanted it, or that it was your fault. We just can’t help how our bodies react. But yes, it does cause problems with intimacy later. It can take a long time to recover sexually, but it is possible. It’s hard work (well, I found it hard work) but it’s worth the effort to find pleasure in your own body and in someone else’s.
This part I can identify with a lot. My new T says that I keep longing for emotional intimacy from my dad. And that makes me feel very guilty and confused. But she says, it is not something that I desire actually - she says that I need clarification about what went on with my father. If he was making me play the role of a companion. And I know very well that I had no other choice at that time. But still I blame myself. And my T actually says that a part of me keeps longing for having that same kind of a relaitonship wiht a man. That is why she says I keep getting immensely attracted to people who are little authoritative but who is unavailable to me sexually - just like my dad was.And even that is very confusing.
>> Incidentally, my ex-T was a man, and I found it very useful to talk to a man about sexual assault and sexual problems, but there were times when it was very difficult. I think his maleness was an advantage because I found the transference aspect of it ultimately very helpful, though terribly painful. I’m guessing that I might have found a female T easier to talk to about it all, but the transference wouldn’t have been so intense. In my situation I really needed erotic transference to make sense of my body’s reaction to the trauma, and to think about overcoming my problems with sexual intimacy, but it might be different for you.
I also feel that the transference was really helpful in getting lof of those issues out. Otherwise, if I had gone to a female T back then, I would have ended up just talking intellectually about things, and that wouldn't have been enough. I needed to get that reaction from myself to understand the patterns.
But now, once I understood it, I don't need a male T. Actually now it helps to have a female T, because I can talk about many issues very openly.With my exT, I found it difficult to keep telling
him some of the things that were bothering me a lot. I usually only just mentioned it lightly and didn't make a big deal out of it. But I knew I was feeling very very very bad inside. But I couldn't bring myself to tell him how bad it felt.
Posted by messadivoce on May 17, 2005, at 20:46:17
In reply to Re: How he would have responded *****Trigger****** » messadivoce, posted by Tamar on May 17, 2005, at 17:37:57
Thanks, Tamar, for your kind and comforting words. Hearing you say that is almost as good as having my T say it. I think it's because you have been in my situation and know how terrifying it is to reveal something like that.
I am grateful I told my most recent T. She is quite a bit older than my male T was and is very matter of fact about things. I was thankful for that. But my male T had such a depth of compassion that was special coming from a man, especially to me, who has trust issues with men.
Posted by daisym on May 17, 2005, at 23:37:01
In reply to How he would have responded *****Trigger******, posted by messadivoce on May 17, 2005, at 16:09:20
From everything you've ever written about your ex-therapist I believe he would have been sad for you but able to hold this with you.
It took me 6 months to tell my therapist and nearly 10 months to talk in any detail. It has been 2 years and I still struggle with the question, "what do you think of me?" But the answer is alway, "Nothing you can tell me will change how I feel about you."
Writing helps. I'm glad you have someone to talk to about it now. I'm guessing you did a lot of ground work in the trust area with your first therapist to get here.
Posted by antigua on May 18, 2005, at 11:05:27
In reply to Re: How he would have responded *****Trigger****** » messadivoce, posted by Tamar on May 17, 2005, at 17:37:57
I feel very comforted by what you posted Tamar. Thank you so much. It is hard to come to terms with the sexual nature of our bodies and how it reacts biologically, even against our will at times. For me, that's the dark secret of CSA--my body responded to touch and got excited, so I think I must have caused the abuse to happen. It has caused me a lot of sexual problems that I'm working hard to overcome.
antigua
Posted by pinkeye on May 18, 2005, at 13:11:34
In reply to Re: How he would have responded *****Trigger****** » messadivoce, posted by Tamar on May 17, 2005, at 17:37:57
Tamar,
I also wanted to say special thanks to you for writing this post.It has been such a great relief for me. About how to understand our body's own reactions, even though we don't like what happened.
Thanks a lot
Pinkeye
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