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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on March 13, 2005, at 11:47:18
I'm not used to working with a therapist that isn't for me, and I was wondering about protocol for therapy for my son.
There's something I want to ask or tell the therapist, but I don't want to do it in front of my husband. It's something along the lines of knowing my husband isn't going to change, and expanding the scope of therapy enough to include ways of helping my son inoculate himself to the effects. I know I'm not going to tell her anything she doesn't already know about my husband, since he's obliging enough to show himself in all his glory in front of her. But this wasn't part of the initial therapy scope with her, and I want to emphasize how badly I think it's hurting my son, and how I'd like for her to help him in whatever way is possible.
Clearly it would be hurtful to do this in front of my husband in a frank manner. And in a roundabout manner I'm not sure I'd make the point.
But this isn't my therapy, and I'm not sure it's proper protocol to call or email her about this. Clearly what I'd really like to do is ask how I can help as well, but I understand that that might not be possible, in that she might not be able to talk about my husband to me behind his back. But is it proper for me to pass information on to her behind his back?
Posted by annierose on March 13, 2005, at 13:29:08
In reply to A question of protocol, posted by Dinah on March 13, 2005, at 11:47:18
Dianh -
I've been in a similar situation. My 11 year old daughter sees a T. She has issues w/anger and the feelings surrounding being angry (what does that mean, what should I do with my feelings, does it mean I'm unloveable??, etc). Anyway, my husband is a GIANT piece of that puzzle. My husband and I meet with her therapist every other month, and he couldn't make one session. So I went anyway, and gave a fuller picture of our home life to the therapist.She told me that she was glad we had the time alone together, that my information told a bigger story. And it was helpful to my husband indirectly. The next time we met, (this T is extremely gifted in talking to adults w/out making them feel defensive) she spoke to my husband in such a way that I saw immediate change in the way he spoke to our daughter. Now, he still needs reminding ("you can talk to her without being angry or yelling ....") but I'm glad I went. I told my husband I went, but not that I spoke mostly about our relationship and his relationship to our daughter (as I see it).
So ... I would call her. It's important.
Posted by alexandra_k on March 13, 2005, at 14:16:30
In reply to A question of protocol, posted by Dinah on March 13, 2005, at 11:47:18
Hmm. Do you think you would be adding anything she hasn't already figured out herself?
I don't know.
If you know her email a brief email may be appropriate (just to make sure that she understands). Otherwise - it sounds that she may have already gathered that by your husband showing himself 'in all his glory'?
Posted by alexandra_k on March 13, 2005, at 14:17:42
In reply to Re: A question of protocol » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on March 13, 2005, at 14:16:30
Besides which... If she is seeing him rather than giving you guys group therapy she can only try to show him ways of thinking / feeling / acting different. She can't try to change your husband via your son any more than your therapist can try to change your husband via you.
Posted by fallsfall on March 13, 2005, at 14:23:52
In reply to A question of protocol, posted by Dinah on March 13, 2005, at 11:47:18
Yes. I think you should try to talk to her about it. She needs to know what her patient's parents are concerned about.
That said, be prepared for her to not agree with you. There have been times when I've asked another's therapist for help and been told that it was my problem more than (or as much as) it was their patient's. Granted, I have lots of problems, and they were probably right - but it was hard to hear.
I might try a phone call...
Posted by Dinah on March 13, 2005, at 14:31:54
In reply to Re: A question of protocol, posted by alexandra_k on March 13, 2005, at 14:17:42
My husband will never change. We're still better off with him than without him.
I want her to help my son, not my husband. There must be some ways of living with realities that are better than others.
Posted by Dinah on March 13, 2005, at 14:36:17
In reply to Re: A question of protocol » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on March 13, 2005, at 14:23:52
I don't think she's going to disagree with me. While she "validated" my husband's feelings, she also told him clearly enough in therapy speak that he was reacting inappropriately. If there's anything I know, it's therapy-speak. :)
What I want to clarify is that I want her to help my son deal with it. It might be something she's already decided to do, but I am not sure.
But she's very very delicate. If she wants to brush me off, she'll do it so politely that I'll only know it because I understand therapy-speak.
Posted by Dinah on March 13, 2005, at 14:45:13
In reply to Re: Yes » Dinah, posted by annierose on March 13, 2005, at 13:29:08
I think I might. She's aware that my husband most likely has obessive compulsive personality disorder and that he is really big on control, and sees my son's actions as a reflection on him. What she may not be clear on is how my son sees his father, how much he uses anger (not physical) to control us (semi-consciously I might add; when called on it he'll pretty much admit it), and how debilitating to the self esteem that is. She does know my son has problems with self esteem and perfectionism.
You know the funny thing is that my son will stand up to my husband fearlessly when it's the dogs he's scaring. But not when it's himself.
Again, it's not physical. He just likes to scare people by overreaction, and he sees everything as a challenge to his personal authority.
Posted by alexandra_k on March 13, 2005, at 14:56:01
In reply to Re: A question of protocol » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on March 13, 2005, at 14:31:54
> We're still better off with him than without him.
Sure, I wasn't questioning that.
> I want her to help my son, not my husband.Sure. I got that.
>There must be some ways of living with realities that are better than others.
Absolutely. I just meant that she will be focusing on how your son responds to things in the environment rather than being focused on changing your husband anyway.
But telling her your take could be helpful, sure.
Posted by daisym on March 13, 2005, at 15:58:40
In reply to Re: A question of protocol » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on March 13, 2005, at 14:56:01
I'd make an appointment and go see her. I did that/do that periodically with my son's therapist. He is great about asking the right questions and making me feel cared for as well. This was really important because early on he suggested something for my son to try that was a disaster...but he didn't have all the pieces to anticipate the fall out.
But, I agree with Falls. They might point out certain things that have to do with you and that can hurt some. It took me awhile to figure out that my son was empathically picking up all of my emotions, and some of that was making him anxious. So we've worked on it in several ways.
The other thing that was really helpful was that the therapist could make it really safe for my son to say things about his dad that I don't think he would have otherwise said. Opened a door, so to speak.
Posted by Susan47 on March 13, 2005, at 20:25:16
In reply to A question of protocol, posted by Dinah on March 13, 2005, at 11:47:18
Protocol schmotocol, imo you talk to your therapist or his or whoever's, about anything that matters. Anything. It's not disloyal to your husband, it never has to be if you don't badmouth him but state simply the way things are For You. I think a good therapist will be able to help you find ways to help your son directly but indirectly, if you know what I mean. She may never have to see him and he may not need a therapist either, but she should certainly be able to help you discover how you can talk to your son about his dad's behaviours, and help him find ways to minimize the effects. Now, before it's too late and he's leaving the nest and he's got an unresolved personality.
Posted by mair on March 14, 2005, at 9:22:30
In reply to A question of protocol, posted by Dinah on March 13, 2005, at 11:47:18
Dinah - who takes your son to therapy. My son was in therapy for a few months years ago (age 9), and I seemed to always be the person who took him and waited for him and picked him up. On occasion, when his T came out to get him, I mentioned that I wanted a few minutes with her at the end of the session. This seemed perfectly acceptable. She did have a meeting with both my husband and I early on and maybe a second one later on, but otherwise I'm the only one she heard from.
Mair
Posted by gardenergirl on March 14, 2005, at 13:56:28
In reply to Re: A question of protocol » Dinah, posted by mair on March 14, 2005, at 9:22:30
I think if it's your son's therapy, then it's okay for you to talk to her. If it's family therapy, then I think she would want you to talk with your husband present. That's the only distinction I would make.
gg
Posted by pinkeye on March 14, 2005, at 14:08:48
In reply to A question of protocol, posted by Dinah on March 13, 2005, at 11:47:18
I didn't read all the subsequent replies to this post Dinah, so I am sorry if somebody else has said the same thing.
When it comes to therapy for your son, what matters the most is him. Not you and not your husband. So, even if it means going behind your husband's back a little to help your son, do it. Find out some way of doing it - email, call, or a visit with your son's therapist. You can even perhaps ask to see your son't therapist once in a while just by yourself, and your husband can do the same as well.. my parents met my ex T without me in the room even when I was an adult. So by all means find out a way to do it. It is not going behind anyone's back. You are just helping your son.
Posted by Dinah on March 14, 2005, at 18:15:37
In reply to Re: A question of protocol » Dinah, posted by pinkeye on March 14, 2005, at 14:08:48
Or rather I left a message first thing this morning, but when she hadn't called back by late afternoon, I started having horrible visions of getting a phone call at home in front of my husband or son. :(( So I called her back, told her it was no big deal - that she already knew what I wanted to say, and to please not call.
Anyway, whoever says she probably knows it is undoubtedly right. If she's working on his self esteem, she has to be factoring that in.
Posted by alexandra_k on March 14, 2005, at 19:16:45
In reply to I called then took it back, posted by Dinah on March 14, 2005, at 18:15:37
(((Dinah))) You know that this is only such a big deal because you really really really care about your son, right?
He is lucky to have you :-)
Posted by judy1 on March 15, 2005, at 12:41:15
In reply to A question of protocol, posted by Dinah on March 13, 2005, at 11:47:18
I couldn't agree more with anierose, and I honestly hope you change your mind about talking/seeing the therp. My son is seeing a therp, and I went by myself to a session for a reason similar to yours. I was quite open about it, my husband and son were both aware that I went- just not the details of what I spoke about. Anyway, the therp was grateful that I clarified things for him and it was a huge relief for me.
hope this helped- judy
Posted by Dinah on March 16, 2005, at 17:34:02
In reply to Re: A question of protocol » Dinah, posted by judy1 on March 15, 2005, at 12:41:15
She return my call anyway, and I told her what I wanted to tell her. I'm not sure what if anything will come of it, or even if I was telling her anything she didn't know, or anything that is actually important to my son. But I don't have to worry that I didn't do something I should have, I guess.
She did thank me for telling her.
Posted by alexandra_k on March 16, 2005, at 21:36:15
In reply to Re: A question of protocol, posted by Dinah on March 16, 2005, at 17:34:02
At the very least
At the very least
You showed her how much you cared about your son.
That you bothered to do that
Because you wanted to MAKE SURE that she knew.
Maybe she did.
Maybe she didn't
But she does now.
I don't see anything wrong with your doing that.
Really.
She could have chosen not to return your call
And she thanked you :-)
Posted by Dinah on March 17, 2005, at 10:16:15
In reply to Re: A question of protocol, posted by alexandra_k on March 16, 2005, at 21:36:15
Yeah, but she kept winking at me when she added one more session with my son before scheduling with me and my husband as planned.
It felt like she thought I was conspiratorial and I'm not. I didn't like going behind my husband's back.
Hopefully she'll discover in that session that I'm worrying unnessecarily, and that she won't for god's sake *wink* when my husband and I meet with her.
(eye roll)
Posted by annierose on March 17, 2005, at 14:04:37
In reply to Re: A question of protocol, posted by Dinah on March 17, 2005, at 10:16:15
I agree. The winking was like saying "this is between you & me ... insider information". But I do think the more information she has, the better she can help your son. He is so lucky to have you as his mother.
Annie
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