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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by alexandra_k on December 11, 2004, at 19:54:36
I should find out this Thursday whether I have been funded to go to residential treatment or not.
If I have been funded then I want to know a bit more about exactly what has been funded before I make my final decision. I mean, everything is billed at an hourly rate, and so I want to know how much therapy they are funding etc.
I am afraid.
I want to get better, but I am not sure whether I am just indulging my flaws.
I am not sure that I need residential treatment, I seem to be doing fine in the community. But that seems to be my only option to get the therapy that I think I need.
I haven't been talking about the voices or the missing time. It may be that working on that stuff I will be glad to be in a safe inpatient environment.
I am afraid.
Posted by smokeymadison on December 11, 2004, at 20:21:38
In reply to Residential Treatment, posted by alexandra_k on December 11, 2004, at 19:54:36
not sure if you mean the hospital by "residential" but i can tell you from my experiences in the hospital that i am always scared as sh*t before i go in and scared as sh*t before i get out.
i know what you mean by "indulging my flaws"
you worded it so well, i can't think of any other way to put it. i just understand. and i think that only you are the best judge of what you need to do to get better/stable/etc.
why all the fear?
i think it is partly loss of control. you loose control when you are in any sort of hospital setting. it is put in the hands of others who you hope have your best interests at heart. and most of them do, i think.
i wish i had more info for you on what it is like to be in a "residential" environment. the longest i have been in the hospital is two weeks. i tried to go to a place in Arizona once but my insurance wouldn't cover it for a month. you are lucky indeed if your insurance lets you stay for more than two weeks!
good luck and let us know if you are going!
Posted by alexandra_k on December 11, 2004, at 20:31:30
In reply to Re: Residential Treatment, posted by smokeymadison on December 11, 2004, at 20:21:38
Yeah, it is a private psychiatric hospital. Most of the admissions are from wealthy families, or people who are publicly funded to go there because they live in that region. I don't live in that region, but our region funds maybe two people to go there per year.
- "indulging my flaws" I got that from "Girl Interrupted". I spent two years, more in hospital than out, that was a few years back now. I didn't get psychotherapy then, though, just meds and shocks.
I feel like it is going backwards a whole heap though... do I really need this to move fowards?
Posted by smokeymadison on December 11, 2004, at 22:09:21
In reply to Re: Residential Treatment, posted by smokeymadison on December 11, 2004, at 20:21:38
i really don't think that it is a step backward if you decide to take advantage of the services they are offering you and use them to their fullest potential. i mean, just b/c you might be going back to the hospital doesn't mean that things are going to just keep being the same or that they will be the same as they were last time you got out. it all depends on how much effort you put into the therapy (and they better have at least group therapy there--you should know before you get yourself there what they offer). i really think that part of getting better is a conscious decision. it is just hard to get to that point or part in your consciousness where you are able to make the decision. if that makes any sense. the hospital has helped me get there a few times. and i still think i have progressed in the past few years even though i have been in and out 4 times. really, i wish i could take an extended stay--i am a bit jealous that you might have that opportunity :)
Posted by vwoolf on December 12, 2004, at 14:17:19
In reply to Residential Treatment, posted by alexandra_k on December 11, 2004, at 19:54:36
Your post has triggered off a whole lot of stuff in me today, and although I have been giving it a lot of thought, I don't think I'm ready to reply just yet. Just one question: Do you know what you want out of going to hospital, i.e. are there specific therapeutic goals, or is it solely a need for nurturing. I know that when I start to think along these lines something is not working in my relationships.
Btw, I have just devoured Janet Frame's "Faces in the Water" - it is such an extraordinarily real picture of psychiatric hospitals in the 50's and 60's. I know. I was there.
I'll try and write tomorrow. Take care.
Posted by alexandra_k on December 12, 2004, at 15:12:32
In reply to Re: Residential Treatment, posted by vwoolf on December 12, 2004, at 14:17:19
Isn't that book great!!! I love it, but it triggers a lot of stuff in me. It is written as a novel but it is clearly based very heavily on her life experiences. I think that the institutions were even based on real places, but I am not sure whether they still exist.
What do I want out of treatment?
I want to be a healthy happy human being.
I want to stop missing time
I want the voices to go away
I want to work out why I keep going round and round in the same self-depreciating circles.
I want to be able to have a healthy relationship
I don't want to have to worry about spinning out emotionally anymore.The list goes on.
The notion is that I will start my PhD in September 2005, or possibly January 2006. It will take me probably between 3-6 years. I want that to go without a hitch. I will be going overseas (somewhere) to do it. US, or Australia, or Canada. I am not too sure what kind of help I will be able to afford overseas. Depends on how good student services is at the institution I end up in I suppose. But I don't think any student health service is geared for someone like me.I need to get as well as I can before I go
So I can cope with a new country
And lots of work pressures.Thats rather a lot to ask for 7 or 8 months, however...
Posted by Toph on December 13, 2004, at 18:02:29
In reply to Re: Residential Treatment » vwoolf, posted by alexandra_k on December 12, 2004, at 15:12:32
I'm somewhat afraid to post because I don't know you that well alexandra. I'm sure, given your experience with depression and treatment, that you have a good sense of what and where you need to feel better. One observation I have is that just today you helped me. You saw that I was upset and you said something very nice. It's hard for me to see someone so empathic and exquisitely thoughtful and kind as needing residential treatment. When I was in the hospital I was either psychotic or suicidal, both narcissitic states of self-absorbtion. If you need a secure setting, be sure to go. But I bet those fortunate enough to be there with you alexandra, will benefit tremendously from having you around.
-Toph
Posted by alexandra_k on December 16, 2004, at 21:48:46
In reply to Re: Residential Treatment » alexandra_k, posted by Toph on December 13, 2004, at 18:02:29
Posted by alexandra_k on December 16, 2004, at 21:52:39
In reply to Thanks for your kind words (nm) » Toph, posted by alexandra_k on December 16, 2004, at 21:48:46
I just feel numb.
Got an email on Wednesday to reschedule our meeting to Friday (today).
I sent one back asking him to at least tell me whether the funding had been approved or not.
No response.
Today he says that they met, but he doesn't know whether they got to me on the agenda or whether it may come up in the next meeting.
THAT IS SO NOT WHAT HE TOLD ME BEFORE
My department waited till Thursday to send out offers for teaching for next year.
I told them I'd know by then.
They kept them ambiguous with regards to hours and number of classes.
But people get f'd around (because of me) again.Numb numb I feel numb
Time to go to bed
Posted by Dinah on December 16, 2004, at 22:26:49
In reply to Numb, posted by alexandra_k on December 16, 2004, at 21:52:39
But it wasn't because of *you*, you know. It was because of the funding people.
When is the next meeting?
(His lack of response and rescheduling was rather discouraging, I'll bet.)
Posted by alexandra_k on December 17, 2004, at 3:07:09
In reply to Re: I'm sorry :(, posted by Dinah on December 16, 2004, at 22:26:49
Thanks. It is just that my mental health issues interfeare with my study and work stuff and I hate it when that happens. It is really demoralising for me.
He said he'd email me before he left work today with some information after having talked to someone he knows on the funding committee. He said he'd do that several times, but now it is 10pm so unless he works screwy hours hes just screwing with me again.
I think it is pretty pointless continuing to see him. You can't forgive when people keep doing precisely what you need to forgive them for. You can't trust someone who habitually breaks their word.
I don't know.
Getting really fed up
Posted by Dinah on December 17, 2004, at 6:03:06
In reply to Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on December 17, 2004, at 3:07:09
I understand the fed up part. I would be too.
It may well be that this is a deal breaker and that he is more bad than good for you.
But overall I tend to find in my relationships that I *do* keep having to forgive people for the same thing over and over again, or accept it as something I can't change and decide if overall the relationship is worth it. People don't seem to be all that imaginative. They hurt you or let you down the same way over and over again.
Posted by alexandra_k on December 17, 2004, at 14:27:26
In reply to Re: Dinah » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on December 17, 2004, at 6:03:06
Yeah. I know that I thought about this really hard and decided that the relationship was worth more to me than the problems were probamatic. But the trouble is that trust is becoming a real issue now.
I am genuinely doing my best to move on from the past hurts and open up to him.
But I don't seem to be able anymore. I just feel numb. Kind of half asleep in a safe place if that makes any sense. He noticed and asked about whether I had problems trusting people. I said that I trust different people in different ways. I guess I was pretty defensive really.
But there are consequences for ones actions (as they try to make clear to you when you do DBT). Of course that is aimed at making other peoples negative responses to you understandable. But it isn't just about that. There are consequences of his not being able to keep his word etc. And the consequence is that I don't trust him. My face doesn't light up when he promices something nice because I don't believe him anymore.
If it was a real world relationship things would be different. But he is supposed to be my therapist for gods sake.
I shall tell him this. I don't think he is in a position to give me psychotherapy. It really was great of him to take me on when noone else would, but he doesn't seem able to do this properly. I guess rapport is mostly about what you say in a single session. Trust takes time and is more about what you do.
This isn't good for me.
Posted by Dinah on December 17, 2004, at 14:48:36
In reply to Re: Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on December 17, 2004, at 14:27:26
In that case, you should definitely leave. Therapy should always do more good than harm.
Posted by alexandra_k on December 17, 2004, at 15:25:16
In reply to Re: Dinah » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on December 17, 2004, at 14:48:36
And then (invariably) I end up in crisis.
Treatment isn't a right its a privaledge.
And its one I can't afford.
So I try my best with half-@ssed attempts
People who throw things back in my face when they can't figure out how to help me.I'm not that bad, really. I'm not.
But I have heard and done all the little CBT activities there are.
I get angry about this.
But I only get angry when I think that people SHOULD be helping me, they SHOULD at least try.
But there is no should about it.I feel sick.
Posted by Dinah on December 17, 2004, at 15:56:13
In reply to But then its back to nothing., posted by alexandra_k on December 17, 2004, at 15:25:16
Hmmm... Maybe you're answering your own question then. Maybe you *aren't* better off without him. Maybe you can use him for whatever he's worth while it is helpful to you, without expecting a lot more.
I dunno. I just find my reaction to things to be valuable information. You seemed to react more negatively to the idea of leaving than to the idea of staying?
Posted by alexandra_k on December 17, 2004, at 16:44:02
In reply to Re: But then its back to nothing. » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on December 17, 2004, at 15:56:13
Thats me though, I put up with a lot.
I stay in abusive relationships, thats part of my problem.He is actually reminding me of my father a great deal:
Well intentioned but hopeless
Can't ever do what he's promised
And his head is always somewhere elseBut I still hang on, because what else is there to do?
Posted by fallsfall on December 17, 2004, at 17:01:13
In reply to Re: But then its back to nothing. » Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on December 17, 2004, at 16:44:02
If he is "acting just like your father" there may be some transference going on. You might ask if he thinks that there is. My experience says that before the transference has been named it seems that all of my reactions are perfectly normal reactions to the reality of the situation. But after we talk about it a bit, I see that the reality of the situation isn't exactly what I thought it was - that I have made assumptions based on my history that aren't true in the present.
Good luck.
Posted by alexandra_k on December 17, 2004, at 17:31:18
In reply to Re: But then its back to nothing. » alexandra_k, posted by fallsfall on December 17, 2004, at 17:01:13
Thanks falls. I have talked to him about many things that have been upsetting to me in our interaction. He agreed that those things were unacceptable and he promised they would not happen again. But they keep happening. Every week there is something, or even a couple of things. I think that we both agree that there are good reasons for my being upset with him. But we seem to be on a cycle of broken promises and apologies and that is not doing me any good because I have to mentally prepare for the worst case all the time and so when I am with him I am numb. I have also learned not to believe his promises anymore.
I am a lot more upset with him then someone would be who didn't have my upbringing, to be sure. But I figure nobody responds too well to this stuff.
I think that my biggest mistake is in putting up with it, to tell you the truth. Because however people treat me it is better than being alone. When I was little I thought my dad was just god because he didn't hit me or yell at me and he always seemed soft and gentle with me. But he didn't care about me, he was just too wrapped up in himself to even be bothered talking to me, and he was too afraid to stick up for himself (and never mind me) to my mother. I came to realise that he is really a weak and avoidant individual. I don't judge him for that, I have those tendancies myself... I figure it is probably transference that has me stay in my current relationship with my t.
I just wrote him.
Posted by smokeymadison on December 17, 2004, at 18:49:20
In reply to Re: But then its back to nothing., posted by alexandra_k on December 17, 2004, at 17:31:18
i think that you are trying to go in the right direction but that it just seems that the going is rather slow right now. i know the feeling :)
if you think that you need to change therapists, don't be bashful about doing it. i have gone through 3 in the last month trying to find one that can really help me and it is worth it to find one that can, i think.
about feeling bad that others around you are being affected (the school) i wouldn't worry too much about it. you are trying to get to a point where you can be very reliable/dependable/etc. what you are doing right now is necessary in order to get there. i hope the pace picks up for you soon!
SM
Posted by alexandra_k on December 19, 2004, at 18:08:15
In reply to Re: But then its back to nothing., posted by smokeymadison on December 17, 2004, at 18:49:20
And the response was...
>All that you say is not poor judgement, it is true. I have to tell you that I did not receive an answer till late on friday but that does not change the the core issue - I am not providing you with the ingredients for a trusting therapeutic relationship, for whatever reason. The reply was that referral to Ashburn will discussed in the new year.
>What are the options to deal with our current therapeutic difficulties?
>a) I submit that I have very little time in the community and this is a is a major factor. If I am unable to provide your treatment, then it is imperative I request another clinician to take over care on a more consistent basis. This is difficult but not impossible.
>b) I will be free of most of my caseload from the beginning of February and then can provide consistent care if you accept.
>I do feel annoyed at myself for treating you such but also frustrated at the constraints of time that has been imposed on me by management.
>I am comfortable with whatever you decide.
I can't help feeling that (a) is a pseudo-option really. I mean, he made it painfully clear to me (over and over) that he was only working with me because nobody else would. But I guess it is better to work through things than it is to run away. See if the problems persist through Feb. anyway. And thats only if Ashburn falls through, I guess. So now it is back to the waiting...
Posted by Dinah on December 19, 2004, at 20:05:01
In reply to Re: But then its back to nothing., posted by alexandra_k on December 19, 2004, at 18:08:15
Sigh.
Sometimes it seems that there really is no good option. Just less bad ones.
I hope some good options come your way soon.
Posted by alexandra_k on December 20, 2004, at 1:03:47
In reply to Re: But then its back to nothing. » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on December 19, 2004, at 20:05:01
> I hope some good options come your way soon.
Me too. Thanks for your support Dinah. Hey I have been out of the loop a bit, not really reading many posts and such... But I think I gathered that your father passed away (?). My thoughts are with you at this hard time. I am sorry, that sounded really awkward. It is hard to know what to say at times like these. But I just wanted you to know that.
This is the end of the thread.
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