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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by 10derheart on December 16, 2004, at 18:53:38
I'm so disappointed in myself today. I feel I'm suddenly backsliding and can't stop it. A few of you may remember I have been grieving the loss of my old T. about 6 months ago, but the twist is we've been in contact by email. That's averaged maybe 2-3 times a week since September. He's been amazing and calmly, kindly supported me through this transition. It would take another separate thread to even begin to do justice to his willingness to adapt and work with me in a way clearly different from anyone else he's ever gone through termination with. Progress had been made in me moving forward, though, or so I thought.
Last week, after deciding to go back into individual therapy, I had my first session with a new T. He's an older psychologist, who happens to have known of my former T. (they did meet once) by reputation. It felt pretty comfortable (I even cried - which took seven months w/old T. who I loved and trusted! what gives there?!) He seemed to adjust to me immediately as a therapy veteran (his words) and was very supportive of helping me work through the issue of the still acutely painful feelings for my old T., and didn't freak out in the least we were still in contact. Told me his phone call policy without having to be asked. Used great analogies and was funny at the right times. All good signs.
So, I told old T. this happened and I intended to see new T. regularly. He was naturally pleased. I also happened to tell him at the same time some very honest truths about how I'd tested him with these emails, needing to see if he was genuine and wouldn't abandon me, even under these unique conditions. Much more than that, but I can't really explain without all the earlier context. Anyway, he answered me that everything I said was awesome. He doesn't even use the word *awesome* <grin>. Then the next day, I mentioned I had a scary issue to ask him about, but was going to go over it w/new T. first, then ask him if *we* decided it was the thing to do. Old T. replied, "Process an issue with new therapist first?! Even more awesome." He is somewhat quiet, controlled and even a tad shy, so this was like him jumping up and down, yelling, "Whoo- hoo! Hurray for 10derHeart!" So all things felt so positive and steady until yesterday morning.
Early yesterday, new T. cancels 2nd session 45 mins. before because he's so sick he's on his way to the doctor and can't see patients. Apologizes and says he'll call back later in the day to reschedule. It's been 2 days and he never called back. I left a message this afternoon but no response. I hardly know the man, but my intuition and his caring, professional attitude so far tells me this isn't normal practice. So Lord only knows the terrible things I'm imagining. Have tons of CBT skills from the past and can't seem to summon them up.
So today, I'm been falling apart hour by hour. Long story, but my usual friends and family (of which there are few anyway) aren't available right now. Not the way they usually are. And I'm been striving so sincerely to detach from old T., really, truly as I'll have to in order to work with new T. So, at the first sign of a shaky day with some unknowns, what do I do? Send a long email to old T. telling him how awful I feel, and how shocked and confused I was this cancellation would matter this much when we haven't even started yet! Alternately apologized for letting him down by sending it, but said I felt like the adult took a vacation and left a small child here alone w/no one. I don't normally talk like that to him. Never since he left. I also told him in these exact words, "I don't want to want what I apparently still want from you." I guess he'll know I mean clutching on again for dear life when I told him not 2 days ago I had let go of the life preserver with at least one hand. I sound like I don't even know a thing about myself. It's so strange and sudden.
I feel so sad and like I can't take a deep breath. I remember this, it's anxiety like I thought I'd mastered quite a long time ago. I know old T. will probably answer with something nice and reassuring. Could have already but I'm scared to check email. If he didn't I'll be devastated. If he did, who knows? I'll probably want to keep emailing him to soothe myself. And he'll probably let me. Now I sound like I'm complaining he's been so gentle and patient about this! Argggh! What the heck do I want?
Sorry, all. I'm all churned up, obviously. Sorry this is so disjointed. I've never chosen to post when I was this distressed before. I just miss old T's physical presence so badly. And I'm trying to be the *good former-patient* for him so he won't get sick of me. This is all too many feelings at one time. So now I have to force myself to go to stores and finish some shopping or boxes won't be mailed tomorrow. Oh, joy. I love Christmas, normally. What an emotional mess.
Posted by gardenergirl on December 16, 2004, at 19:33:26
In reply to Backsliding(way- too long), posted by 10derheart on December 16, 2004, at 18:53:38
Oh you poor dear. That cancellation was really bad timing indeed. I'm so sorry that happened to you. I'd be mixed up, anxious, sad, maybe angry, you name it.
I'm glad your old T is caring. I can tell how important that relationship is to you. It sounds like he is maintaining appropriate boundaries with you while at the same time being helpful and supportive. What a lovely man.
Does your new T have any office support? A secretary, partner, etc. who might be able to tell you what to expect? I can understand your worry. I hope you here from him soon.
In the meantime, we are here for you. Keep posting if you find it helpful. And I followed your post just fine.
Take care,
gg
Posted by fallsfall on December 16, 2004, at 20:08:01
In reply to Backsliding(way- too long), posted by 10derheart on December 16, 2004, at 18:53:38
It sounds to me like you are doing really, really well! And like you have two wonderful therapists.
Cancellations are always hard. But last minute "I'm going to the hospital" cancellations from someone you don't know well must be the worst! Plus you were all set to talk about something important. I think your reaction was completely understandable.
Wishing that your old reliable Therapist was still around sounds very reasonable to me.
Take a breath (or two, or three - as a matter of fact, breathing is a good practice to get into).
Do a little distraction - watch a good movie? Do something you want to do (even if it isn't "productive"). Eat ice cream, and then eat some more ice cream.
Accept that the cancellation has upset you, but recognize that it is perfectly reasonable to be upset by that. Everything will sort itself out, I'm sure. And I'm so glad you have your old therapist to hold your hand through this.
Post early and often!
Posted by messadivoce on December 16, 2004, at 20:24:52
In reply to Backsliding(way- too long), posted by 10derheart on December 16, 2004, at 18:53:38
Hello 10derhearted,
I'm so glad you posted. I empathize with you as someone who has experienced losing a beloved T, and although you say you are backsliding, I really think you are healing. It's so hard when we think we are doing well and will never go back "there" and then to return to that dark place we thought we had left behind. But I'm really starting to think it's all part of the process.
I'm so sorry about your new T!! That must have been so rotten. What a letdown. I hope you are able to hear from him before the weekend. I am so happy for you that your old T is so understanding. It takes such courage to transfer the trust from one man to another and I think you are such a strong person to have been able to begin that with this new T. Let us know what happens. Take care of yourself. I reccomend cheescake. It's the best legal antidote for human misery that I've found.
Posted by 10derheart on December 17, 2004, at 1:02:09
In reply to Re: Backsliding(way- too long) » 10derheart, posted by gardenergirl on December 16, 2004, at 19:33:26
Thanks, GG, your comments are always so steadying and kind. Yes, I'm really angry w/new T., but quite concerned, too. I know enough of his background and reputation (former military, like me)to wonder at the not calling patients, or having someone else do it, when that happened 2 days ago. Just doesn't fit. He works with two social worker partners, but no support staff. They all manage through voicemail systems that page them automatically. I guess if it's afternoon today (Friday) with no response, I could call one of them.. Awkward, but maybe better than me going crazy all weekend.I can't add much to your description of my former T. as a lovely man. He most certainly is lovely, in every way you can imagine. Sheesh, that sounded...errr, interesting. Maybe my sense of humor is returning a bit. Or I'm so tired from crying, I'm punchy. (small, weak laugh at self)
He has worked extremely hard to maintain boundries, and I think I have helped us not *do therapy* by email as that would be unethical and technically illegal as he's not credentialled in my state any longer. It's a terribly razor thin line he's walked, and I'm sure some would disapprove, but I think we both just know in our bones this has been vital for my healing, as well as educational and important for him, even with all his experience. He freely talked to me about lack of training in termination and never having really experienced the depth of what this can be like for someone as bonded as me. He says I am unique in his experience in my quest to feel everything and find meaning in the most painful parts of transition and separation. He said last week I have remarkable courage. I'm so blessed to know him.
Funny, old T. didn't even answer my email, which is unusual, too, especially this kind of upset message. Oh, well, I only email him at work, so he may have gone home early and not read it. We've had problems with his server bouncing back messages 8 hours later, too, so I'm trying not to panic. If I did, I'd say old and new Ts conspired to abandon and confuse me all in one day, and that's just not funny.
Thanks again for making the time for everyone here. You are a treasure and are/will be one heck of a T.!
Posted by daisym on December 17, 2004, at 1:18:59
In reply to Backsliding(way- too long), posted by 10derheart on December 16, 2004, at 18:53:38
I think your post was really clear and not too long. I'm glad I'm not the only one who writes it all down when I'm feeling anxious!
I don't think you need to apologize to your old therapit for the email. You are feeling so much and your pain is really raw. It seems that your abandonment "stuff" has been competely triggered by your new therapist getting sick. Don't minimize what you are feeling. This is something deep and old. You turned to a tried and true comfort. Any of us would have.
I hope you get a reply email soon. And I hope your new therapist is OK. I'm sure there is an explanation but I would be worried like you are. Hang in there. It helps me to write a lot when I get upset.
Posted by daisym on December 17, 2004, at 1:19:18
In reply to Backsliding(way- too long), posted by 10derheart on December 16, 2004, at 18:53:38
I think your post was really clear and not too long. I'm glad I'm not the only one who writes it all down when I'm feeling anxious!
I don't think you need to apologize to your old therapit for the email. You are feeling so much and your pain is really raw. It seems that your abandonment "stuff" has been competely triggered by your new therapist getting sick. Don't minimize what you are feeling. This is something deep and old. You turned to a tried and true comfort. Any of us would have.
I hope you get a reply email soon. And I hope your new therapist is OK. I'm sure there is an explanation but I would be worried like you are. Hang in there. It helps me to write a lot when I get upset.
Posted by 10derheart on December 17, 2004, at 1:26:28
In reply to Re: Backsliding(way- too long) » 10derheart, posted by fallsfall on December 16, 2004, at 20:08:01
> It sounds to me like you are doing really, really well! And like you have two wonderful therapists.
*** Thanks for bringing me back to the bigger picture a little. After all, one or two days are just one or two days. Old T. thinks I'm doing really well, too. In fact, I can tell he's a little surpised and happy I was willing to start working with someone else. And yes, if I can ever get him well and engaged, perhaps new therapist will be wonderful, too.
> Cancellations are always hard. But last minute "I'm going to the hospital" cancellations from someone you don't know well must be the worst!
**** Yup. Guess I rarely had any cancellations with old T. But you just made me think of an awful time back in Feb '04 when old therapist had his clinic staff call and cancel all his appts. for 2 weeks with almost no notice. And, the staff told people it was for "health reasons"! I was beside myself worrying and it was a terrible episode. Found out later it was nothing too awful, but old T. got an earful of my opinion on what you should let staff say! I still remember the *mask* slipping just long enough for him to say, with a tone of wonder, almost, "You were really that worried about me?" DUH! Anyway, maybe my unconscious went to that place in this instance. Transference plain as day. Makes sense, I think.
> Do a little distraction - watch a good movie? Do something you want to do (even if it isn't "productive"). Eat ice cream, and then eat some more ice cream.
Yes, I watched a movie, called a friend and ate homemade fudge. Yum!
> Accept that the cancellation has upset you, but recognize that it is perfectly reasonable to be upset by that. Everything will sort itself out, I'm sure. And I'm so glad you have your old therapist to hold your hand through this.
***Great advice. It's just complicated as I'm trying tiny bit by bit to let that hand go. I don't want to , but have to. It's a strange time I suppose. Just hope he answers my email tomorrow. I trust him more than anyone on earth, yet still I get scared sometimes that he's forgotten all about me in an instant. ouch.
Falls, you are wonderful. I always enjoy reading your posts. Hope you are doing well. Thanks so much for caring.
Posted by 10derheart on December 17, 2004, at 1:53:30
In reply to Re: Backsliding(way- too long), posted by messadivoce on December 16, 2004, at 20:24:52
Thanks a bunch, Voce. You write so well. I always *get* you right away, and that's nice :) I knew you would empathize.
You are right about the healing, I know. I can tell from the nature of the tears I cried today. These are the kind where layers of you are being burned off, and new things uncovered. Like steel is tempered by fire. Or a blob of glass is skillfully blown into a gorgeous creation. At least that's the way I like to think of the *temperature* of the pain, once I calm down some. Images that turn it into an ultimate positive thing comfort me somewhat.
You know, it was really no big deal and in fact I had other things to do when he cancelled the session. The reason it was fine was I completely trusted he'd call back within hours. That's not really like me in these situations. So I have grown and learned from old T' that it's reasonable to trust some people after seeing their behavior. Good for me. It was when today came and went (oops, that was yesterday now - can't sleep) that I lost it. All part of my same, deep issue about important people pulling the rug out from under me for the past 26 years, and maybe earlier times I can't recall. And some real tranference, which I explained in my response to Falls. I guess I am worried because I've lost the connection with some friends over the next two weeks, old T. is taking some amount of time off (at least one week) and if new T. is really ill....yikes. Instability is not my favorite thing. Not anyone's, I guess.
Appreciate the great words about me and my old T. As you've heard (probably ad nauseum) from my other posts, he is something special. I do feel a lot more grounded now after all the Babble support.
Hey, didn't you see your T. today? Did that go okay,if you feel like saying? Hope you felt less battered over the head. I've had that with an "in-between" therapist (4 sessions) and I really couldn't take it. But she was a poor fit and had her own issues. I'm sure yours is going to get better all the time. Just concerned for you from your recent post. Take care.
Posted by 10derheart on December 17, 2004, at 2:10:49
In reply to Re: Backsliding(way- too long) » 10derheart, posted by daisym on December 17, 2004, at 1:18:59
Wow, Daisy, are you a master carpenter in your spare time?(spare time! rotfl) Sorry for the awful humor, but you truly hit every nail perfectly on the head. That's so what happened. Many different abandonment things rolled all into one. Especially the one where old T. did get sick (sort of - it was actually stress!) earlier this year and I wasn't allowed to know what was wrong - see my post to Falls. I'd forgotten how distraught I was. Any boy did I transfer that right onto this man I don't know and don't feel for at that level. Not to mention old T. did not answer me and that is quite out of character. And yes, I so need to write and write to someone (not just journal) when I am losing it.What a beautiful post for me to read and then go off to bed - finally. You have quite a knack for not only cutting to the heart of everything but making me feel completely justified. Hmmm, quite like a good T., I'm thinking. ((Daisy)) You just helped me more than you know.
Posted by messadivoce on December 17, 2004, at 2:52:00
In reply to Re: Backsliding(way- too long) » messadivoce, posted by 10derheart on December 17, 2004, at 1:53:30
Thanks for remembering that yes, I did see my T today. As much as I was dreading today's session, it turned out to be much more positive than I anticipated. We talked more about my family and my boyfriend and our plans for the future. Some tough stuff stuff but really reminded me of how much I have in him. I'm quite lucky and she agreed.
As you know, I wrote a letter to my old T and I did work up the courage to read it today to my new T. It is three pages hand written but she sat there for all of it and when I was done she seemed very impressed. She told me it was beautifully stated. I had concluded it by saying that I hoped he would honor it with a thoughtful response, and that he is better with words than me. My T told me today that she thinks I write better than him. :-) Which may be true, but he most certainly has the advantage with the spoken word. I'm a terrible speaker, especially for someone who's spent half her life onstage. I can communicate the words of others better than my own. But that's another post.
Anyway, it felt good to read it to her and I'm planning on sending it to my old T right after Christams. Kind of appropriate with New Year's coming, don't you think? Out with the old...
Anyway, sleep tight my dear and keep in touch.
Voce
Posted by 10derheart on December 17, 2004, at 8:51:41
In reply to Re: 10derhearted Thanks for asking!!, posted by messadivoce on December 17, 2004, at 2:52:00
Sounds pretty great. How awesome to know you have your boyfriend. That is something really special, to find someone you can love, count on and make plans with. If I recall, you are around my daughter's age (she's nearly 23)and some things remind me of her... Hope it's okay if I say that - believe me it's a high compliment as she is an amazing young woman. It's her 6-month anniversary today and she is married to the best guy ever....I've told him many times to clone himself (but about 20-25 years older) and I'm all set ! It's wonderful to see them together. But (and I never say this to anyone but old T.) there have been moments I get so envious/jealous I almost break down. Never let them see that, although my daughter would understand I know. Not often, as I'm genuinely thrilled for her, but when you're alone yourself sometimes it suddenly hits you..but ah, well, that's a thread for the relationship (or lack thereof) board.How brave to sit and read the whole letter! I am so impressed. I could never do it. Closest I got was allowing old T. to read two long letters (but not in my presence). For me that was big, and it did result in wonderful sessions. We each go at our pace, I suppose. I think you're doing an important thing with that letter. For one thing, taking such rough circumstances and finding your own way to release and process the feelings. I'll bet your T. is pleased and impressed, too, and it sounds like she's showing it. You sound better, so I'm glad of that.
Funny, new T. called a few minutes ago and offered me a cancellation this afternoon. I took it, of course. Whew - a relief he's getting better. But even bigger than the appointment itself, on the phone when I answered, he identified himself and asks how I'm doing. I say "okay", but it's that "okay" that means sort of, kind of, not really, I'm not sure - all in a slight inflection of tone. Remember, he's talked to me maybe three times before briefly on the phone. And right away he says, "Really? Only sort of okay, I think." To me, that was important. I know I am looking for the subtle signs of the great intuition and sensitivity of my old T. That seemed encouraging.
I'm not nearly ready for out with the old, but you inspire me with your attitude... Hope to see you post as often as you can - same for me, and thanks for all the warmth and support. - 10DH
Posted by gardenergirl on December 17, 2004, at 8:57:06
In reply to Re: 10derhearted Thanks for asking!! » messadivoce, posted by 10derheart on December 17, 2004, at 8:51:41
I'm so glad he called, and that he could detect your state even over the phone. That's great news. I hope today's session is a good one.
And thanks for your kind words in your post above. It's nice to hear that from people who are in a position to know through their own experiences. :)
And I'm struck by your visual images in your writing. I love the blown glass image. I've had that kind of crying, too, but couldn't really describe the difference other than healing. What a beautiful image you present. I hope it's okay if I borrow it at some point?
Take care,
gg
Posted by 10derheart on December 17, 2004, at 9:44:42
In reply to Re: 10derhearted Thanks for asking!! » 10derheart, posted by gardenergirl on December 17, 2004, at 8:57:06
Oh, of course, yes - borrow away! To me, there's little point in the neat way my mind just pops those out sometimes if they aren't shared as widely as possible. Takes one to know one I'd say, reading your coal hiding a diamond image in Daisy's thread. Very cool.
But as my old T. would say when I clearly grasp some philisophical idea he's not 100% sure will make sense, "Thanks for being able to share some recognition for it/that." He's so formal sometimes, but it's endearing to me. I do love to write. I'm glad it resonates with others sometimes. That means a great deal.
I'll try to post about my session. Should be interesting since new T. says if he talks too much, he'll start coughing, so hopefully I can talk a lot. And I've had 2 hours sleep, which nearly always means tears and blurting and...oh boy...!
Posted by Aphrodite on December 17, 2004, at 17:20:57
In reply to Backsliding(way- too long), posted by 10derheart on December 16, 2004, at 18:53:38
Just catching up here. What a rollercoaster you've been on. How did your session go? I'm sure it was hard to worry about your new T as well as yourself. Since you do not know your new T very well and are not used to how he manages things like cancellations in his practice, you must have felt alone and totally adrift. I hope you got to talk about those feelings today.
I hope your weekend is a calm and peaceful one.
This is the end of the thread.
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