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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by thewrite1 on December 14, 2004, at 16:46:28
I went in for my session on Sat. I was talking about how I hadn't been able to sleep & about a dream I had. My T fell asleep on me. She's done it before, though not often. I do find it rude and have told her such. I'm not even that angry about it. She's old and she works long hours. I became very angry when she woke and immediately began talking about my dream (and for obvious reasons she was a few events behind). She just chattered on as if she'd been with me the whole time. I called her on it and got really kind of nasty about it. She did say she was sorry that she hurt me and I just stormed out. Part of me wants to call her and the rest doesn't ever want to see her again. I'm pretty sure this is some sort of transference as far as my reaction goes. I'm probably going to have to force myself to go there for my next session. I have until Sat., so maybe I can sort some of this out before then.
Posted by Shortelise on December 14, 2004, at 17:59:02
In reply to Bad session, posted by thewrite1 on December 14, 2004, at 16:46:28
I would hate it if my shrink fell asleep. I'd be furious. I think I would talk with him (mine is a he) and tell him that it's just not acceptable to me, and why.
If she's working so much that she can't stay awake during her sessions, then she should see fewer clients.There's my opinion, for what it's worth.
ShortE
Posted by pegasus on December 14, 2004, at 18:08:58
In reply to Bad session, posted by thewrite1 on December 14, 2004, at 16:46:28
Well, whether or not you have transference, I think aside from that, it *is* quite rude for a T to fall asleep during a session. It's also unprofessional. It's her job to keep herself awake.
Another pet peeve of mine is when a T will apologize by saying, "I'm sorry that I hurt you" or some such thing, instead of saying, "I'm sorry that I fell asleep". I mean, isn't she sorry that she fell asleep? I always think it sounds like they're trying to put it all on the client, as if the hurt comes from the client's issues, and not the general unprofessionalness of falling asleep when one is supposed to be working.
I don't blame you at all for being angry. I bet she's expecting to work with this in your therapy this week.
pegasus
Posted by Fallen4MyT on December 14, 2004, at 18:16:02
In reply to Bad session, posted by thewrite1 on December 14, 2004, at 16:46:28
For what it is worth I do not think youre the one with the problem she should not fall asleep you are paying her to listen and process...I would be mad if I paid the plumber to sleep...Youre right on on this and I would be mad too.
Posted by pinkeye on December 14, 2004, at 18:21:54
In reply to Bad session, posted by thewrite1 on December 14, 2004, at 16:46:28
I am sorry she fell asleep. It is quite bad. But I will tell you my experience. When I find that the therapist is not interested or yawning or just disinterested in what I am saying, I usually try to change the subject a little or try to make it interesting for them. It has been successful so far.
Maybe you can try that to keep them awake. It is not a good thing to fall asleep, but they are also human, so I guess we can forgive them for that. I have difficulty listening to people myself and tend to get bored easily, maybe that is why I can empathize with the therapists.
Posted by thewrite1 on December 14, 2004, at 20:22:40
In reply to Re: Bad session, posted by pinkeye on December 14, 2004, at 18:21:54
That's kind of my thinking, too. Like I said, she has fallen asleep before so we've discussed that. I had a very harsh reaction to her trying to jump back in the conversation as though she never left. *That's* mostly what made me so angry and I think that most likely we'll discuss that if I don't chicken out and cancel. I just feel very let down by her.
Posted by thewrite1 on December 14, 2004, at 20:26:14
In reply to Re: Bad session » thewrite1, posted by pegasus on December 14, 2004, at 18:08:58
Thanks to everyone else for your input. I never really thought that I shouldn't be angry. It just seems to me there's more issues there, but I guess that's something we're going to have to explore.
Posted by gardenergirl on December 15, 2004, at 0:15:35
In reply to Re: Bad session » pinkeye, posted by thewrite1 on December 14, 2004, at 20:22:40
> That's kind of my thinking, too. Like I said, she has fallen asleep before so we've discussed that.
I'm so sorry that you had to experience that. How awful. For me, falling asleep in session is unforgiveable. And to do it more than once! Of course you reacted to it, especially to her attempt to cover it up. Your feelings about it are absolutely valid, and this is her problem, not something you are doing.
Regarding whether what you are talking about is contributing to it by her being bored, well, I can understand that worry. I've wondered before if I was boring my T. When I asked him about it, he said he wasn't aware of being bored, but if he were, that would be fodder for therapy itself. But again, that is the T's responsibility to manage. If I did that with one of my clients, I would fully expect to have them call me on it, perhaps report it to my supervisor, and then have him call me on the carpet for it. If I did it frequently, I would fully expect to fail my training. Whatever the reasons, I think this is very unacceptable behavior.
And of course you feel let down by her. This is like the ultimate failure in being present to you, which is a basic expectation for therapy. I don't mean to sound harsh about this, but I am absolutely astounded that this could happen more than once.
Please consider challenging her about this and changing T's to someone who will be present for you, if you feel like it might be helpful. You deserve her full attention! You can quote me on that. :)
gg
Posted by dawnfawn on December 15, 2004, at 9:20:56
In reply to Bad session, posted by thewrite1 on December 14, 2004, at 16:46:28
What you are describing is almost unforgivable. And you say this has happened more than once?? Change therapists. If you go back over some of my listings you will see that recently I have dropped several therapists, they are late, inconsiderate, abusive, etc. This is not resistance on my part. I have been in therapy before. However it was years ago when obviously people were sincere, not in it for the money and followed certain protocols. This is not part of transference. If your T is too old to practice she should retire.
I now have a whole list of telephone questions to ask any new Ts I may consider going to.
Please try to work this out or change Ts.
Posted by thewrite1 on December 15, 2004, at 13:40:35
In reply to Re: Bad session » thewrite1, posted by gardenergirl on December 15, 2004, at 0:15:35
Oh, this is absolutely something we will be discussing. I respect everyone's opinion, but I really do not want to change T's. I've been with her for three years and she's done me a lot of good. It took more than a year before I could build up enough trust in her to talk about some of my deeper issues. I don't want to spend the time to do that with someone else. I really do feel a special bond with her and I guess that's probably why I'm so hurt by this. Having a few days to process it, I think it's probably something we'll be able to work through. I do plan to hold her accountable for her actions, though. She's going to have to own that, too.
Posted by dawnfawn on December 15, 2004, at 16:14:48
In reply to Re: Bad session, posted by thewrite1 on December 15, 2004, at 13:40:35
I really hope she has done you good. Therapy is not a game to see who owns what, who is in charge, who is resistant, etc. I am finding a lot of comments like that on this web site. Anyone care to comment. I feel it is a helping cooperative tool. The days of the heavy duty Freudian type transference, etc. are long gone.
Posted by gardenergirl on December 15, 2004, at 19:56:22
In reply to Re: Bad session, posted by thewrite1 on December 15, 2004, at 13:40:35
Good for you. I hope it goes well.
gg
Posted by thewrite1 on December 15, 2004, at 22:20:31
In reply to Re: Bad session, posted by dawnfawn on December 15, 2004, at 16:14:48
Hummm.....I'm not big on owning or trying to be in charge. Every situation is different. It just so happens (as I think everyone has agreed) that my T was wrong in what she did. She has a tendency to make everything about me and most of the time she would be right. However, this time I will not accept her trying to make her falling asleep during my session about my issues. That's all I meant.
Posted by fallsfall on December 16, 2004, at 6:25:40
In reply to Re: Bad session, posted by dawnfawn on December 15, 2004, at 16:14:48
>>The days of the heavy duty Freudian type transference, etc. are long gone.
Maybe they are gone for you...
I did 8 1/2 years of CBT (and learned quite a lot). But I found myself mired in an extremely painful transference that she was unable to work with. I changed to a Psychodynamic therapist who was able to deal with that particular transference with dispatch. Today I am in a different transference (also excruciating) - Just because CBT exists, doesn't mean that transference doesn't. And for some, working through the transference is necessary for living.
Posted by dawnfawn on December 16, 2004, at 7:52:36
In reply to Re: Bad session » dawnfawn, posted by fallsfall on December 16, 2004, at 6:25:40
Interesting, CBT is usually fairly short term, by definition. It is a relearning. I did not mean transference does not exist. CBT by it's nature is for changing thoughts that influence moods. As transference is the reestablishment or reliving of already established ways of relating to significant others it's role in CBT is very limited. Cognitive behavorial therapy as defined by Beck is usually effective within 1 year on learned responses. 8 1/2 years seems very long even for psychoanalysis, which is usually 5 years four or five times a week, although it can be longer. I'm sorry to hear that your T seems to be life long. I hope you work out your problems
Posted by Dinah on December 17, 2004, at 14:17:09
In reply to Re: Bad session, posted by thewrite1 on December 15, 2004, at 13:40:35
I understand not wanting to change therapists over this. Mine used to do it and I would have really regretted it had I terminated him over it.
I will offer this though. At the time he frequently fell asleep, I was completely divorced from my feelings. Now that I am in touch with my feelings he never ever falls asleep. Or if he has, it's so seldom it doesn't even register. I'd probably just suggest he drink from his coffee cup and forget it.
Do you think you could discuss with her her impressions of how engaged you are in therapy? (Engaged is engaging.) Her napping might be a good source of information about you.
Or your experience might be completely different from mine and you can just ignore everything I said. :)
Posted by Dinah on December 17, 2004, at 14:21:33
In reply to Re: Bad session » fallsfall, posted by dawnfawn on December 16, 2004, at 7:52:36
I don't think Falls is in need of sympathy. Not only is the length of therapy a personal choice so that a long therapy is in no more need of sympathy from someone who prefers short term therapy than short term therapy needs sympathy from those of us who find benefit from long term therapy.
I'll let Falls speak for herself about how nicely she is working out her "problems".
Posted by thewrite1 on December 17, 2004, at 15:18:00
In reply to Re: Bad session » thewrite1, posted by Dinah on December 17, 2004, at 14:17:09
That's a good point. The couple of times I remember where she fell asleep on me before, we were both quiet. I hadn't said anything for awhile and so I can kind of understand how she could have fallen asleep. This time I was in mid-sentence. I think I am going to suggest that she have a cup of coffee before/during our sessions. Everyone has made a big deal out of the fact that she did fall asleep. For me, it was more about the timing than anything.
Posted by Dinah on December 17, 2004, at 15:53:26
In reply to Re: Bad session » Dinah, posted by thewrite1 on December 17, 2004, at 15:18:00
Good idea. Suggesting she has a cup of coffee is a way of letting her know it's bothering you, while offering a suggestion on how to fix it and being clear that you don't consider the relationship in any jeopardy.
Some other suggestions might be for her to stand up and stretch if she feels sleepy, or to switch to a less comfortable chair. That's the way I approached it with my therapist - as a problem to be solved together. He switched to a less comfortable chair, made sure he had coffee or cola, and we changed our sessions from immediately after lunch for a while. He did try standing up and stretching one or two times when I caught him looking sleepy. But he clearly felt embarassed by that and that suggestion didn't pan out. However, I still used it as a gentle reminder from time to time. A gentle and polite "Do you think you need to stand up and stretch?" instead of an accusing "You are falling asleep!!!" It seemed to work well.
Posted by thewrite1 on December 20, 2004, at 11:46:58
In reply to Bad session, posted by thewrite1 on December 14, 2004, at 16:46:28
Okay, so I had it out with my T about this issue. She completely took responsibility for falling asleep. She said she was ashamed and wanted to crawl out of the room and hide, or rather that was her urge. I suggested that in the future if she's feeling sleepy she could stand and stretch. She was careful to say that while she wasn't uncomfortable with my suggestion, she wasn't comfortable with me feeling like I needed to come up with a solution to her exhaustion. So then there was much guilt on my part. Oh, she was exhausted. I don't know why her use of that word made me feel so guilty. Still working on that. All in all, I'm okay with how things went. I was afraid she was going to make my harsh reaction out to be transference of some type, but she didn't do that at all.
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