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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 19 to 43 of 54. Go back in thread:
Posted by fires on August 19, 2004, at 21:36:25
In reply to Re: return to therapy, posted by JenStar on August 19, 2004, at 20:45:39
> Fires,
> if you keep banning people from talking to you (two already, correct?) you're soon going to have no one with whom to converse! (Are you going to ban ME, now, for questioning you?)Then so be it
> It seems to me that you don't really know how to get along with people through the written word. You tend to misinterpret things, find fault where none was intended, and-- for one who claims to hate being assigned motivations and blame -- are VERY quick to assign motives to others!
Maybe your correct, but that doesn't make me feel any less attacked.
> I agree with Susan: Reading betw. the lines, you DON'T seem very open to therapy. So many ground rules -- coupled with your other posts -- makes the written "fires" seem rigid, inflexible, and emotionally unavailable.
Things aren't always what they seem.
> It's hard to 'write nice' to you -- you disagree with so much. What do you really want here? There is an underlying tone here of "touchy feeling" helping hands on Babble (maybe not in my message, obviously, but a general trend) -- and it seems that you don't like such things. Are you trying to reach out? Do you consider yourself to be a considerate person? Do you have friends in 'real life?' Are you trying to make friends on Babble? Do you realize that you're going about it the wrong way?Your Q.: "what do I really want here?" is extremely offensive to me. I now am telling you that I don't want you to reply to any of my posts. I'll ignore your other extremely offensive and rhetorical questions above.
> I'm interested in your response. If Dr. Bob bans me...so be it. I'll read the answers...and come back (hopefully in a better mood!) in a few (?) weeks.If Dr. Bob doesn't ban you then there is no justice on this group. I never came close to attacking anyone the way you just attacked me. Putting your attacks in the form of questions just doesn't work.
> JenStar
>
> I have toyed with the idea of whether you are really "you" or a prankster jerking us all around and seeing how we react to such an inflammatory person!
OK. Next time you might try not calling me an "inflammatory person." That's very offensive to my sensibilities.
>
>
>
>
>
> I don't think Susan was trying to insult you. She was asking a question, and couched it in tender language to insulate you from pain.
>
Thanks for your opinion, but I disagree. I think she used the same rhetorical Q. technique that you just demonstrated.>
> > > Please take this with a grain of salt, Fires, but then again ... it sounds like some part of you really doesn't want to see a therapist. What do you think? I'm really saying this gently, please take it that way. I'm probably all wrong, right?<<Please. After you attack me, you say, "please take this with a grain of salt" then you proceed with the rhetorical questions again -- after I've clearly explained why they are so offensive.
To anyone:
I'm not familiar with how to go about "reporting" verbal abuse here. Do I need to report it, or does Dr. Bob read every post?Please let me know. :(
Posted by fires on August 19, 2004, at 21:45:46
In reply to Re: Save money, buy a book instead, posted by Glydin on August 19, 2004, at 20:46:52
> > Yeah, but like Mark Twain said: "Be careful of what you read in health books, you could die of a misprint" (hope I got it correct).
>
>
> ~~~Or of what you can read on health boards.That's a roger.
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 19, 2004, at 22:31:00
In reply to Re: return to therapy » JenStar, posted by fires on August 19, 2004, at 21:36:25
> To anyone:
> I'm not familiar with how to go about "reporting" verbal abuse here. Do I need to report it, or does Dr. Bob read every post?
>
> Please let me know. :(There are two easy ways.... cut and paste the whole message to him (or excerpts) with a link, and email it to him (his email is at the bottom of every board). Or, do the same thing, but post it under an appropriate heading on the Admin board. To link to a particular post, you can find the URL way down at the very bottom of the post, the very last line of text. Pick an appropriate subject line.
With a long post like the one you're wondering about, you're better off editing it down to one or more sentences that concern you.
Then, you see what Bob thinks about the whole deal. I'll tell you now, sometimes people don't agree with Bob about what is civil or not.
Lar
Posted by Susan47 on August 19, 2004, at 22:48:40
In reply to Re: return to therapy, posted by JenStar on August 19, 2004, at 20:45:39
Save your energy. You're too good for this. And so am I.
Posted by fires on August 19, 2004, at 22:52:18
In reply to Re: return to therapy » fires, posted by Larry Hoover on August 19, 2004, at 22:31:00
> > To anyone:
> > I'm not familiar with how to go about "reporting" verbal abuse here. Do I need to report it, or does Dr. Bob read every post?
> >
> > Please let me know. :(
>
> There are two easy ways.... cut and paste the whole message to him (or excerpts) with a link, and email it to him (his email is at the bottom of every board). Or, do the same thing, but post it under an appropriate heading on the Admin board. To link to a particular post, you can find the URL way down at the very bottom of the post, the very last line of text. Pick an appropriate subject line.
>
> With a long post like the one you're wondering about, you're better off editing it down to one or more sentences that concern you.
>
> Then, you see what Bob thinks about the whole deal. I'll tell you now, sometimes people don't agree with Bob about what is civil or not.
>
> LarThanks for info.. It will have to wait until tomorrow, though.
Or, since I'm coming off 2 straight bans, it may be best to keep quiet and see what happens.
Posted by AuntieMel on August 19, 2004, at 23:11:03
In reply to return to therapy, posted by fires on August 19, 2004, at 14:05:15
Welcome Back!!
I know you've been interested for a while about CBT as an alternative. I'm glad you're going to give it a shot. I personally think it's a methodology that is well suited to you. Remember, though that competent and compatible are also part of the mix for success, so if it doesn't seem to be going well with one therapist after a good effort, then find another one.
You certainly should advise your potential therapist of any rules you have. You might also want to tell which you are the most adamant about.
1989 is a long time ago....I was about to (finally) graduate from college that year. So many things have changed since then. Maybe discussions of new techniques should be given the behefit of the doubt at least until they are explained.
I know you've had a bad time with having true physical ailments being passed off as 'all in your head' I'm sure if you explain to the new therapist what you went through with that, s(he) will understand.
By the way, have you seen the cardio doc yet? How did it go?
First name? Might want to reconsider that one. What if she *does* look good in a bikini?
For some of the others - if you have already been recommended to CBT therapists they shouldn't be an issue. Why would a CBT person talk about other therapies? To get rid of you? Not likely. And a CBTer isn't likely to encourage whininess or neediness - the job is to get you *away* from that.
Take a water gun with you - just in case she goes to sleep..
You'd probably like the guy I go to. There is such a professional atmosphere it wouldn't even occur to
me to get attached. I've been going for a good while - first year was mainly small talk - my choice, trust issues. Today he said I've been there longer than anyone he's ever seen. Most are only there 10 - 15 weeks. I've just got a lot of damage to repair.You seem to be getting the hang of the I statements.;)
Again, welcome back.
Mel
Posted by AuntieMel on August 19, 2004, at 23:27:24
In reply to Re: return to therapy » fires, posted by jane d on August 19, 2004, at 17:09:41
Do you think we could be sisters? I tend to look at things logically myself. If you (the rhetorical you) give me a reasonable explanation of something I'll think about it and draw a conclusion. If it is something that requires "intuition" I'm outta there!
As for gender - I prefer male. I've got serious trust issues, but less with the guys for some reason probably having to do with my growing up.......
And I have a minor in math..
Posted by AuntieMel on August 19, 2004, at 23:47:28
In reply to Re: return to therapy » JenStar, posted by fires on August 19, 2004, at 21:36:25
As someone who likes you, might I make a prediction that this post will get you a "please rephrase"
============================================================
Mel, pretending to be Dr. Bob:>>>>>If Dr. Bob doesn't ban you then there is no justice on this group. I never came close to attacking anyone the way you just attacked me. Putting your attacks in the form of questions just doesn't work.
>>>>>OK. Next time you might try not calling me an "inflammatory person." That's very offensive to my sensibilities.
>>>>>Please. After you attack me, you say, "please take this with a grain of salt" then you proceed with the rhetorical questions again -- after I've clearly explained why they are so offensive.
MelBob here - even if you feel like you are being attacked, in the name of civility you should suppress the impulse to attack back. Please either rephrase this, or not respond to it at all.
====================================================Mel back, without the Dr. Bob suit. Really, fires, I'd really like you to stay around more than a day this time. I enjoy our conversations.
Mel
PS = Jen and Susan and underthecs are all really nice people. I think we ALL (me too) have to remember that things got off to a bad start before, take a deep breath, step back, and above all be adults. All of which are difficult for me on a good day.
Posted by JenStar on August 20, 2004, at 0:54:18
In reply to Re: return to therapy: JenStar, posted by Susan47 on August 19, 2004, at 22:48:40
Susan, thanks! :) I agree on both our accounts! Sometimes my emotions get the better of me; this is clearly one of those times. I'll try to cool off before I write any more responses (or possibly I'll be banned...we'll see...)
Have a good evening. :)
JenStar
> Save your energy. You're too good for this. And so am I.
Posted by JenStar on August 20, 2004, at 0:58:11
In reply to Re: Board manners;) » fires, posted by AuntieMel on August 19, 2004, at 23:47:28
hi Mel,
thanks for being kind & striving to be diplomatic to all. I remember reading many of your posts previously (reg. the fires issues) & I know that you are also a kind person who wants harmony & for all to get along. I'll try...I was just steamed up...if I don't get banned I'll still take a 'cool off break' on my own before further posts!take care!
JenStar> As someone who likes you, might I make a prediction that this post will get you a "please rephrase"
>
> ============================================================
> Mel, pretending to be Dr. Bob:
>
> >>>>>If Dr. Bob doesn't ban you then there is no justice on this group. I never came close to attacking anyone the way you just attacked me. Putting your attacks in the form of questions just doesn't work.
>
> >>>>>OK. Next time you might try not calling me an "inflammatory person." That's very offensive to my sensibilities.
>
> >>>>>Please. After you attack me, you say, "please take this with a grain of salt" then you proceed with the rhetorical questions again -- after I've clearly explained why they are so offensive.
>
> MelBob here - even if you feel like you are being attacked, in the name of civility you should suppress the impulse to attack back. Please either rephrase this, or not respond to it at all.
> ====================================================
>
> Mel back, without the Dr. Bob suit. Really, fires, I'd really like you to stay around more than a day this time. I enjoy our conversations.
>
> Mel
>
> PS = Jen and Susan and underthecs are all really nice people. I think we ALL (me too) have to remember that things got off to a bad start before, take a deep breath, step back, and above all be adults. All of which are difficult for me on a good day.
Posted by gardenergirl on August 20, 2004, at 1:19:27
In reply to return to therapy, posted by fires on August 19, 2004, at 14:05:15
> For the first time since 1989, I am planning to see a therapist. CBT only, for physical illness coping.
fires,
This approach makes sense to me given what you have written in the past. I have one suggestion. You might want to find out if the therapist is a health psychologist. You may already know this, but this type of T has special training in physical ailments, the effects they can have on quality of life, and on behaviors that can exacerbate illness or faciliate wellness. He or she may be just what you are looking for if I am understanding your posts correctly.I think it is very pro-active of you to let the T know up front about your rules. It certainly lets them know where you are coming from and what you expect. Thanks, by the way, for the reminder about using first names. I was brought up to never call my "elders" by their first name...always Mr. or Mrs. X. But it seems like things have become much less formal over the years. When I was working with older adults a couple of years ago, I was teased for being so formal. Hey, if they never said to call me anything else, who was I to use their first name? (Incidentally, it took more than five years for me to be able to call my now in-laws by their first names or as Mom and Pop. They never said anything! Didn't they notice I avoided calling them anything at all? I suppose I could have asked directly...). I admit, though, it's odd to me, probably because of our culture, to call someone younger than me my Ms. or Mr. etc. And I haven't yet decided what I want my clients to call me once I earn my doctorate. Dr. sounds too formal. I don't even like Mrs. right now. Hmmmm.
Now, I hope you don't mind if I share my own reaction to your rules in general. If I were the T and you presented me with this in our first session, I probably would have mixed feelings. I would appreciate your directness and honesty. It's much easier than trying to guess. You know, I'm sure, that T's are NOT capable of reading client's minds. ;) But I might also feel a bit intimidated. That I might fail to live up to a rule while caught up in the moment to moment flow of sessions. I suppose I would also want to know a bit about your prior experiences which may have shaped the development of your rules. I am someone who always likes to know why and how something is, not just to memorize facts. That way, if I can't remember something by rote memory, I can reconstruct it, albeit perhaps not exactly, by running through the why and how of it again.
Just my middle of the night insomniac reaction. I truly hope you find what you are looking for in this endeavor. I think there is a good T out there for a variety of needs. It's sometimes hard to match up, however.
Take care,
gg
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 20, 2004, at 6:34:51
In reply to Re: return to therapy » Larry Hoover, posted by fires on August 19, 2004, at 22:52:18
> Thanks for info.. It will have to wait until tomorrow, though.You're welcome.
> Or, since I'm coming off 2 straight bans, it may be best to keep quiet and see what happens.
I don't think that's anything to worry about. If anything, it demonstrates a clearer understanding of the civility issues.
Posted by fires on August 20, 2004, at 10:26:09
In reply to Re: return to therapy » fires, posted by Larry Hoover on August 20, 2004, at 6:34:51
Posted by AuntieMel on August 20, 2004, at 11:46:30
In reply to Re: return to therapy/Questions » fires, posted by underthecs on August 19, 2004, at 15:00:49
I have a couple of questions/observation about your post (and I encourage a reply):
"Just curious as to why you seem so adamant about eliminating the human element of therapy. "
"Are you afraid of the relationship?"It's obvious that any therapy contains a human element. But, by "human element" do you mean "emotional element?" To me they are not the same thing.
Human element to me means interaction, some give and take, but more of a professional relationship.
Emotional element is much more. It involves having the person become part of your emotional being.
If I understand it right, CBT is about the human element of feedback giving new ways of thinking about and interpreting the same data, data that might have caused the client a bad reaction of sort. The emotional element is introduced only on occasion to figure out *why* that data invokes the reaction, so that the new way of thinking can stick.
It seems perfectly reasonable to me to want (need) the human element on a professional level, but not want (or need) the emotional bits. This is exactly the relationship I have with my therapist and it works for me.
CBT may or may not lead to more intense 'personal' therapy, but it seems to me to be a dang good start in increasing function.
Ok, so the question. Just so we are talking about the same thing. When you say human element, are you referring to the same thing I call emotional element?
Posted by JenStar on August 20, 2004, at 12:03:18
In reply to Re: Board manners;) » fires, posted by AuntieMel on August 19, 2004, at 23:47:28
Mel,
I just want to reiterate how much your post helped me cool down & take a deep breath.Hearing someone say I was nice (-- even when I wasn't being especially nice --) was so cool. It made me feel special & happy for a moment. I really thank you for that! It makes me want to BE nicer to deserve your approval! :) Thanks for having patience.
I also agree that Susan and undertheecs are nice as well. I enjoy reading your posts, guys/gals. I'm in a much calmer mood today & will strive to keep it all pleasant from my end.
Hope you're all doing well!
JenStarJenStar
> As someone who likes you, might I make a prediction that this post will get you a "please rephrase"
>
> ============================================================
> Mel, pretending to be Dr. Bob:
>
> >>>>>If Dr. Bob doesn't ban you then there is no justice on this group. I never came close to attacking anyone the way you just attacked me. Putting your attacks in the form of questions just doesn't work.
>
> >>>>>OK. Next time you might try not calling me an "inflammatory person." That's very offensive to my sensibilities.
>
> >>>>>Please. After you attack me, you say, "please take this with a grain of salt" then you proceed with the rhetorical questions again -- after I've clearly explained why they are so offensive.
>
> MelBob here - even if you feel like you are being attacked, in the name of civility you should suppress the impulse to attack back. Please either rephrase this, or not respond to it at all.
> ====================================================
>
> Mel back, without the Dr. Bob suit. Really, fires, I'd really like you to stay around more than a day this time. I enjoy our conversations.
>
> Mel
>
> PS = Jen and Susan and underthecs are all really nice people. I think we ALL (me too) have to remember that things got off to a bad start before, take a deep breath, step back, and above all be adults. All of which are difficult for me on a good day.
Posted by AuntieMel on August 20, 2004, at 12:08:45
In reply to Mel, thanks for your calming influence! » AuntieMel, posted by JenStar on August 20, 2004, at 12:03:18
Way cool! Makes me want to start singing "The sun will come out - tomorrow..."
I really do think everyone is nice and means well. It's just easy to get caught up in the moment.
Add to that the fact that the written word quite often reads in a way that wasn't intended, we could hyperventilate with all the deep breaths we should be taking;)
Posted by AuntieMel on August 20, 2004, at 12:12:01
In reply to Mel, thanks for your calming influence! » AuntieMel, posted by JenStar on August 20, 2004, at 12:03:18
Posted by AuntieMel on August 20, 2004, at 12:14:11
In reply to Mel, thanks for your calming influence! » AuntieMel, posted by JenStar on August 20, 2004, at 12:03:18
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 20, 2004, at 12:21:29
In reply to Re: return to therapy/Questions » underthecs, posted by AuntieMel on August 20, 2004, at 11:46:30
These posters were conferring with Fires, AuntieMel. This is in response to the list of criteria one must meet to be his therapist. I think he is the one that should answer the questions. After all, it is his list and the question was directed to him. He speaks quite well for himself. I do believe you said this yourself many times. Please allow him, Fires, to answer his questions. I am sure that he can clearly clarify any thing he feels or thinks on the subject on his on accord.
P.S. It is apparent that he doesn't wish to confer with some, because he has decided to block them posting to him. This was his decision. Was it not?
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 20, 2004, at 12:32:13
In reply to To AuntieMel, posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 20, 2004, at 12:21:29
Please remember to not do it, because you will get a block by Dr. Bob. I did not this function happened until I saw it happen to Fires. Someone asked him to not reply and he did and he got a blocked for a week. Maybe there was more to it than that, but I don't want anyone to get that. So, please remember if he tells you not to reply to him. Don't do it.
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 20, 2004, at 12:37:37
In reply to Susan,Lar,Fires,Underthecs-wanna join the hugfest? (nm), posted by AuntieMel on August 20, 2004, at 12:12:01
Sure, I'm always up for a group hug.
{{{{{{{{{{{{Everybody}}}}}}}}}}
Those are bear-hug arms.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 20, 2004, at 12:38:57
In reply to Anyone with more on CBT? (nm), posted by AuntieMel on August 20, 2004, at 12:14:11
Ya, I can sum it up in four words.
Same input, different output.
Lar
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 20, 2004, at 12:40:03
In reply to Re: return to therapy » JenStar, posted by fires on August 19, 2004, at 21:36:25
> It seems to me that you don't really know how to get along with people through the written word. You tend to misinterpret things, find fault where none was intended, and ... are VERY quick to assign motives to others!
>
> JenStar> your ... extremely offensive and rhetorical questions
>
> I never came close to attacking anyone the way you just attacked me.
>
> verbal abuse
>
> firesPlease don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
Sharing something about your own issues and their possible role in your reaction might be an interesting exercise -- and might help others respond to you supportively.
Anyone who has questions about this or about posting policies in general, or who is interested in alternative ways of expressing themselves, should see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Also, follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by JenStar on August 20, 2004, at 12:52:16
In reply to Re: please be civil » JenStar » fires, posted by Dr. Bob on August 20, 2004, at 12:40:03
will do, Dr. Bob.
Sorry to all for my part in this conflict!take care,
JenStar> > It seems to me that you don't really know how to get along with people through the written word. You tend to misinterpret things, find fault where none was intended, and ... are VERY quick to assign motives to others!
> >
> > JenStar
>
> > your ... extremely offensive and rhetorical questions
> >
> > I never came close to attacking anyone the way you just attacked me.
> >
> > verbal abuse
> >
> > fires
>
> Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
>
> Sharing something about your own issues and their possible role in your reaction might be an interesting exercise -- and might help others respond to you supportively.
>
> Anyone who has questions about this or about posting policies in general, or who is interested in alternative ways of expressing themselves, should see the FAQ:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
>
> Also, follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
Posted by AuntieMel on August 20, 2004, at 13:02:48
In reply to To AuntieMel, posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 20, 2004, at 12:21:29
It's just that I'm convinced that the main problem is a difference in communication styles. And when I see this happen to folks I care about I can't resist trying to help.
Quite often I jump into conversations when I feel I have something positive to bring to it. This isn't really any different to me.
Friends?
Mel
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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