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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by likelife on February 5, 2003, at 1:47:10
Reading some of the posts here got me thinking about the cyclical nature of therapy. I know I've read the term 'cyclotherapy' somewhere, referring to the idea that issues that come up in therapy just seem to keep coming up, perhaps in slightly different forms, but the rough content is the same.
I know I've experienced this in my therapy, and it drives me crazy, because it makes me feel as if I'm making very little progress. I know overall that the loops don't just circle back on themselves; that there is some forward movement as well, but it's frustrating nonetheless. I've brought it up numerous times with my therapist, usually under the guise of asking whether she's getting sick of hearing the same things over and over again. She continues to tell me that she will repeat the same messages to me, in a consistent manner, until I start to believe some of them myself.
Why is it that there are some things we just can't make ourselves believe, even when there is a preponderence of evidence that they are true? Is this some kind of cognitive impairment? My therapy has been mostly of the CBT variety, which I admit also drives me somewhat crazy. I can achieve an intellectual understanding of the concepts--yes, my thoughts affect my moods--but it hasn't helped me much in changing those thoughts.
Just rambling now. Does this sound familiar to anyone?
Posted by Tabitha on February 5, 2003, at 2:07:46
In reply to cyclotherapy, posted by likelife on February 5, 2003, at 1:47:10
Hi lifelike, it is frustrating isn't it? Why can't therapists just fix us already! I guess if it were so simple, we'd be machines and not human beings. There must be some benefit to being so darn complicated and mysterious.
There's more to it than the cognitive stuff. We have to deal with the big murky mess of emotional issues. It's a lot like dealing with a small child-- logic isn't all that useful.
Posted by Tabitha on February 5, 2003, at 3:18:13
In reply to Re: cyclotherapy, posted by Tabitha on February 5, 2003, at 2:07:46
I have been reading "lifelike" all this time. as in, looks so lifelike.
Posted by Dinah on February 5, 2003, at 7:31:27
In reply to Re: oops, misspelled name, sorry, posted by Tabitha on February 5, 2003, at 3:18:13
Posted by Dinah on February 5, 2003, at 7:39:28
In reply to cyclotherapy, posted by likelife on February 5, 2003, at 1:47:10
I have to agree with you about CBT. I think it is my therapist's method of choice, although he modifies its use to fit my personality to a more conversational style.
I think that maybe, just maybe, hearing it over and over finally helps with the addition of external validation. In other words, there have been areas where my therapist has been using CBT with me with little success. And then some event happens or I change the way I deal with something (even though it feels fake at first) and all the stuff that has been falling on deaf ears sinks in and starts to feel real. Because hearing it just annoys me. But experiencing it, and then evaluating it in light of what my therapist has been telling me, well I'd use this analogy. My therapist plants the CBT ideas and they lay dormant until awakened and nurtured by experience.
I also have the same concepts to work on over and over. I think everyone does. I'm sure therapists are used to that. I get bored with it myself, sometimes, though and want to scream "OK, You've told me that already! Don't you have anything useful to say?!"
Posted by mikhail99 on February 5, 2003, at 8:50:06
In reply to cyclotherapy, posted by likelife on February 5, 2003, at 1:47:10
> Reading some of the posts here got me thinking about the cyclical nature of therapy. I know I've read the term 'cyclotherapy' somewhere, referring to the idea that issues that come up in therapy just seem to keep coming up, perhaps in slightly different forms, but the rough content is the same.
>
> I know I've experienced this in my therapy, and it drives me crazy, because it makes me feel as if I'm making very little progress. I know overall that the loops don't just circle back on themselves; that there is some forward movement as well, but it's frustrating nonetheless. I've brought it up numerous times with my therapist, usually under the guise of asking whether she's getting sick of hearing the same things over and over again. She continues to tell me that she will repeat the same messages to me, in a consistent manner, until I start to believe some of them myself.
>
> Why is it that there are some things we just can't make ourselves believe, even when there is a preponderence of evidence that they are true? Is this some kind of cognitive impairment? My therapy has been mostly of the CBT variety, which I admit also drives me somewhat crazy. I can achieve an intellectual understanding of the concepts--yes, my thoughts affect my moods--but it hasn't helped me much in changing those thoughts.
>
> Just rambling now. Does this sound familiar to anyone?Yes, very familiar! I often wonder the same things too and if my insurance is going to limit the amount of sessions I can have with my therapist, can I be fixed? :-)
I think what you said about the loops is true, that there is forward movement but I think sometimes the progress is so small, we may not realize it that our thought processes are changing. I don't often realize it until I'm talking to my therapist about an incident and then I realize that I was able to use some of the things he's taught me. I try to focus on these little successes because I think if I do, the lesson is more firmly planted in my mind.
I wonder too about the cognitive impairment. I find sometimes that when I'm successful in changing my thought patterns, I start worrying that I'm too self-aware and WHY do I have to, in addition to all the other crap I obsess about, be hyper-aware of all my negative thought patterns? Does this make sense? I guess it's pointless to allow myself to get to that point but if I could control that kind of thinking, I wouldn't be in therapy, would I? :-)
I'm giving myself a headache!!!
oy.
Mik
Posted by likelife on February 5, 2003, at 23:45:59
In reply to Re: cyclotherapy, posted by Tabitha on February 5, 2003, at 2:07:46
You're definitely right that logic doesn't always play a part in it. I think this is what especially frustrates me, being an entirely logical person (oh wait...).
Emotions seem like this endless pile of bills sitting on my kitchen table. I know I need to get into it at some point, but it doesn't seem all that appealing at the moment.
Posted by likelife on February 5, 2003, at 23:51:46
In reply to Re: cyclotherapy » likelife, posted by Dinah on February 5, 2003, at 7:39:28
I see what you're saying about the importance of experience. It often seems that change occurs for no particular reason. One day I look up from the book I'm reading and realize that something fundamental has changed, though I can't quite figure out why, or at least why now. But there must be some absorption of this material going on at an unconscious level. As I'm able to apply the concepts, even though I'm not entirely aware of it, I'm building toward what seems like an eventual huge change.
Doesn't it all seem like magic at times? (Or wizardry, depending on your viewpoint.)
Thanks for your comments...
Posted by likelife on February 5, 2003, at 23:58:57
In reply to Re: cyclotherapy » likelife, posted by mikhail99 on February 5, 2003, at 8:50:06
> I wonder too about the cognitive impairment. I find sometimes that when I'm successful in changing my thought patterns, I start worrying that I'm too self-aware and WHY do I have to, in addition to all the other crap I obsess about, be hyper-aware of all my negative thought patterns? Does this make sense? I guess it's pointless to allow myself to get to that point but if I could control that kind of thinking, I wouldn't be in therapy, would I? :-)
Makes perfect sense. Why is my brain so messed up that I have to monitor my own thinking all of the time, to make sure that it's on the right track? I wonder sometimes whether it's really so great to be able to control one's thinking. Well, maybe what I really wonder is whether it's so great to ALWAYS control thinking. I get a kick sometimes over the crazy things I seem to come up with.
Sometimes it seems like we all need therapy. Or that it would be really helpful if everyone I knew were in therapy, so maybe I could take a break for a while.
Posted by mikhail99 on February 6, 2003, at 8:37:46
In reply to Re: cyclotherapy » mikhail99, posted by likelife on February 5, 2003, at 23:58:57
> > I wonder too about the cognitive impairment. I find sometimes that when I'm successful in changing my thought patterns, I start worrying that I'm too self-aware and WHY do I have to, in addition to all the other crap I obsess about, be hyper-aware of all my negative thought patterns? Does this make sense? I guess it's pointless to allow myself to get to that point but if I could control that kind of thinking, I wouldn't be in therapy, would I? :-)
>
> Makes perfect sense. Why is my brain so messed up that I have to monitor my own thinking all of the time, to make sure that it's on the right track? I wonder sometimes whether it's really so great to be able to control one's thinking. Well, maybe what I really wonder is whether it's so great to ALWAYS control thinking. I get a kick sometimes over the crazy things I seem to come up with.I know what you mean, every once in awhile I get myself laughing over my thoughts which I guess is better than hysterical crying, right?
>
> Sometimes it seems like we all need therapy. Or that it would be really helpful if everyone I knew were in therapy, so maybe I could take a break for a while.
>
>I personally believe that EVERYONE could benefit from a little therapy. And yes, if everyone else went, maybe us "lifers" (that's what I feel like sometimes) could have a break! :-)
Posted by judy1 on February 6, 2003, at 11:00:55
In reply to cyclotherapy, posted by likelife on February 5, 2003, at 1:47:10
I guess I look at it as taking 20 or 30 years to get me to where I am today and it's going to take x years to undo the damage I and others fed myself those many years. (Hopefully not 20+ years of therapy) But I think it's completely normal to take the one step forward and then reverse to what's comfortable. Try not to get over concerned about the lack of progress and be proud of yourself for sticking through it. take care, judy
Posted by fuzzymind on February 6, 2003, at 14:13:29
In reply to cyclotherapy, posted by likelife on February 5, 2003, at 1:47:10
> I can achieve an intellectual understanding of the concepts--yes, my thoughts affect my moods--but it hasn't helped me much in changing those thoughts.
>
> Just rambling now. Does this sound familiar to anyone?Yes. I know a lot about CBT....the therapis I had even admitted I knew more than she did. Doesn't help.
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